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 Post subject: Federal Telephone and Telegraph Co. DX Type-58
PostPosted: Jun Mon 17, 2013 2:59 pm 
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Joined: Jun Wed 05, 2013 7:47 am
Posts: 30
Hi

I just got a Federal Telephone and Telegraph Co.

DX Type-58

Got it to work, but still figuring out how to use it. Does anyone that a schematic and user manual for it.

I will post pictures tonight :)

Anyone have any spare UX-200 tubes?


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 Post subject: Re: Federal Telephone and Telegraph Co. DX Type-58
PostPosted: Jun Mon 17, 2013 3:56 pm 
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Joined: Mar Fri 28, 2008 2:49 pm
Posts: 1231
Location: Phoenix, AZ 85085
Here is the wiring diagram for the DX-58. This set uses a UV200 as the detector and UV201A tubes as the RF amp and two audio stages.

Alan

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Federal Telephone and Telegraph Co. DX Type-58
PostPosted: Jun Mon 17, 2013 4:11 pm 
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Joined: Jun Wed 05, 2013 7:47 am
Posts: 30
Hey thanks :) pretty simple schematic!

How do you tune into stations? I notice my adjusting amp and rf get different station on the same sec con dial

I turn random knobs to get a get a station. Where would i find extra ux-200?

Cretin way to scan for stations? UX200 glow pretty bright to get stations?


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 Post subject: Re: Federal Telephone and Telegraph Co. DX Type-58
PostPosted: Jun Mon 17, 2013 5:03 pm 
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User avatar

Joined: May Wed 03, 2006 4:47 am
Posts: 5116
Location: Radio Heaven, North Carolina, near Charlotte, 28106-3015
This reminds me of a comment I read by an old ham homebrewer
in the 1930s, when someone asked him why he didn't label the
controls on his home built radios.
His reply was,
"If you don't know what they do, you shouldn't be messing with it'.

You don't have to have a UV 200, a 201A will work OK in it's place,
the 200 is just a little better detector.

_________________
73, Ron w4ron
http://radioheaven.homestead.com/menu.html


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 Post subject: Re: Federal Telephone and Telegraph Co. DX Type-58
PostPosted: Jun Mon 17, 2013 5:38 pm 
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Joined: Jun Wed 05, 2013 7:47 am
Posts: 30
I tried using 201a was the results was very poor.

Interesting philosophy for the 30's. I'm sure they did have manuals included with the radio's
My Freed Eisemann NR-6 I know how to tune quite easily but the federal radio is quite the different animal.

Unfortunately his philosophy is quite dated considering it's from the 1930's, I was born in the 1985, but I know quite a lot more about odds and ends then most people my age, to double my age, or older, the fun thing is not knowing how to use something and learning something new, because you can learn it. I have restored many tube amps and radios, turntables, clocks, watches, computers, vintage computers, cars, etc... If anyone asked me how to use something I know, give them my brain in a basket.
I unfortunately dont have a ham license, but the radio swap meet I got it from, and the the many friendly people I talked to, 2,3,4 X my age did not quite know how to use the Fed. DX-58. But did know the three cap knob battery sets which I do know how to use.

So I am trying my luck, here. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Federal Telephone and Telegraph Co. DX Type-58
PostPosted: Jun Mon 17, 2013 6:00 pm 
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User avatar

Joined: Jan Fri 11, 2013 3:47 pm
Posts: 1231
Location: Camino, California
I'm 40 years old, and all of my "radio-squirrel" friends are older than me. In fact, I'm the youngest in the group by at least a decade. It absolutely blows them away, and astonishes them, that I have any interest whatsoever in this kind of stuff. I now know how they feel. I'm amazed that somebody your age has any interest in this stuff. Good on you! Our hobby always needs young blood, and a "next generation". You definitely have the right attitude, and with that attitude, you'll go far. Again, good on you, old man.

Ham licenses are a breeze, you can do that in your sleep.

73,

Jason


rekokut wrote:
I tried using 201a was the results was very poor.

Interesting philosophy for the 30's. I'm sure they did have manuals included with the radio's
My Freed Eisemann NR-6 I know how to tune quite easily but the federal radio is quite the different animal.

Unfortunately his philosophy is quite dated considering it's from the 1930's, I was born in the 1985, but I know quite a lot more about odds and ends then most people my age, to double my age, or older, the fun thing is not knowing how to use something and learning something new, because you can learn it. I have restored many tube amps and radios, turntables, clocks, watches, computers, vintage computers, cars, etc... If anyone asked me how to use something I know, give them my brain in a basket.
I unfortunately dont have a ham license, but the radio swap meet I got it from, and the the many friendly people I talked to, 2,3,4 X my age did not quite know how to use the Fed. DX-58. But did know the three cap knob battery sets which I do know how to use.

So I am trying my luck, here. :D

_________________
Watch out!!! I've been known to use...."Jargon"!


Last edited by N6MKC on Jun Mon 17, 2013 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Federal Telephone and Telegraph Co. DX Type-58
PostPosted: Jun Mon 17, 2013 8:18 pm 
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Joined: Jun Wed 05, 2013 7:47 am
Posts: 30
Hey Jason

Thanks for the great post! Had a blast at my first radio swap meet! I was definitely the youngest person there!
There were couple people in there late 30's and 40's, but.. they more into 1940's 1950's radios or any hifi stuff they had there.
I really have a thing for the 1920's radio's. I honestly dont know why. There's something about the battery sets that hit a chord for me.

Federal Telephone and Telegraph Co. DX Type-58 I bought from guy in his 80's, his son gave it to him 20 years ago, son got it from south America. Also got a tube tester for $20 Any way i cleaned it up got it working. He told me to let him know when I get it going. I called him 2 hours after I got home and shocked him that I fired it up.

My wife has been really supportive with my hobby and and HIFI, sold couple peaces of gear before the swap meet, had the cash to get some cool stuff.

Thinking of getting my Ham License soon, once I move to Non HOA house lol for my giant antenna!

Take care

Casey


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 Post subject: Re: Federal Telephone and Telegraph Co. DX Type-58
PostPosted: Jun Mon 17, 2013 11:27 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 1645
Location: Hollywood, Maryland
Casey,

Welcome to the hobby sir. I started collecting radios as a child and now I am a crusty guy in his 50's. Please ignore the ones on here that lack any social skills. You will find that most are very kind and helpful.

David


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 Post subject: Re: Federal Telephone and Telegraph Co. DX Type-58
PostPosted: Jun Tue 18, 2013 12:06 am 
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Joined: Jun Wed 05, 2013 7:47 am
Posts: 30
Hey

Thank you for the Welcome :). Most have been very helpful and friendly! I believe I have caught the bug.
Recapped little 1930s troy radio, that had my favorite station on the dial, "KFI 640" Hobby bit me hard lol.


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 Post subject: Re: Federal Telephone and Telegraph Co. DX Type-58
PostPosted: Jun Tue 18, 2013 1:47 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 30698
Location: Pocasset, Cape Cod, MA
Federal recommended an antenna 70 to 150 feet long "as high as possible" (typically from the peak of a 2 1/2-story house to a tree or building), and the radio will work best with this type.
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I bought a DX58 at the Rochester AWA meet a few years ago, after talking to the owner in the flea market and then driving to his house after the meet, 30 miles toward Buffalo. I haven't had time to try running it however. I have run a 61 and can report that every one of its many controls does something. It's a marvelous performer when set up correctly, but with a slight misadjustment your station is gone. Probably the DX58 is similarly temperamental.


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 Post subject: Re: Federal Telephone and Telegraph Co. DX Type-58
PostPosted: Jun Tue 18, 2013 6:41 am 
Member

Joined: Jul Wed 07, 2010 4:21 am
Posts: 267
Location: columbia mo
A couple of helpful settings on the Federal 58.

Set the two "inductance" controls to the fourth tap starting from the left.

Tuning -- large center knob

650 = 50 [WSM/Nashville]
670 = 45 [Chicago]
700 = 40 [WLW/Cincinnati]
720 = 37 [WGN/Chicago]

All four with sufficient volume to drive a Federal horn speaker.
50 ft. antenna; receiver is grounded.

Measured field intensities averaging 500-800 µV/m. These are reliable clear channel stations several hundred miles out, easily received and the antithesis of dx.

Coupling -- very fickle. Is this a true regeneration control? The set always seems on the verge of oscillation.

The four filament rheostats are also somewhat fickle.

Manipulating the two inductance tap controls sets frequency; fourth tap starting from the left has an apparent "sweet spot" between 600-800 kc.

Further testing/results tomorrow during the daytime with a different set of stations all via ground wave and known field intensities.

Quiet sensitive but probably not to the degree of the best three-dialer tested thus far, a 5-tube Silvertone Neutrodyne. Stations measured here with 20 uV/m or less have been logged during the daytime on this receiver though not with ear-splitting volume.


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 Post subject: Re: Federal Telephone and Telegraph Co. DX Type-58
PostPosted: Jun Tue 18, 2013 3:39 pm 
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Joined: Jun Wed 05, 2013 7:47 am
Posts: 30
Hey Thanks Alan and Algermond!!!!

I will try again tonight. I think i need a bigger antenna, and outdoors if possible. I have have figure something out.
Right now have wire on my ceiling in a running cross the room back and fourth from the walls.
I really want to thank you again for the info! What kind of wire is best for an antenna? Any kits out there?

Here are a few pics pf my setup. Hoping to get a better table soon. :)


Casey


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 Post subject: Re: Federal Telephone and Telegraph Co. DX Type-58
PostPosted: Jun Tue 18, 2013 3:53 pm 
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Joined: Jan Fri 11, 2013 3:47 pm
Posts: 1231
Location: Camino, California
Casey,

Like Alan said above, long and high is the way to go. Sounds like you're a bit restricted, though, so "as long, and as high as possible" is about all you can do. Outdoors is a must for a long wire antenna. However, I wonder if that set would work decently with a tunable homebrew loop antenna? They're easy to make, and there are plenty of instructions online. They look super-neat, too, especially if you take care in its construction, and try to make it look contemporary to the radio...maybe a high-gloss black finish on it?

The Federal is a gorgeous looking set, and I love the horn speaker. Super classy rig.

One of the big reasons I moved up to the country over a year ago was my postage stamp sized lot in Sacramento wouldn't afford me the opportunity to run a decent antenna. I no longer have that problem :)

Jason

_________________
Watch out!!! I've been known to use...."Jargon"!


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 Post subject: Re: Federal Telephone and Telegraph Co. DX Type-58
PostPosted: Jun Tue 18, 2013 5:12 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 30698
Location: Pocasset, Cape Cod, MA
It's counterintuitive, but the lead-in wire does most of the work on a short "long-wire." It's a top-loaded vertical antenna. And you want a good earth ground. I'm sure the set can be made to work with something else, but that's what it was designed for.

The type of wire makes very little difference, other than its physical strength.


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 Post subject: Re: Federal Telephone and Telegraph Co. DX Type-58
PostPosted: Jun Tue 18, 2013 5:33 pm 
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Joined: Jul Wed 07, 2010 4:21 am
Posts: 267
Location: columbia mo
More checking in the daytime and the DX-58 receiver turns out to be a remarkable performer if you have the patience to fiddle with all the dials.

On closer examination, the function of the two tapped coupling controls is to match the receiver with whatever antenna is in use. For the installation here, the fourth tap from the left seems to work best. The coil furnished with the set is marked "220-550 meters." Need to grab coils out of my 61 which cover different ranges.

The "amp increase" rheostat is the most critical of the four, serving as a sort-of regeneration control.

Some more settings to try out.

550 = 74-1/2 [St. Louis, 120 mi., 250µV/m measured, unusually strong, wonder if they are still on night DA pattern, nulled to the east to protect their co-channel neighbor in Cincinnati, née WKRC -- Kodel Radio Corp -- thus enhanced to the west toward us? Normally, 550 here is about 80µV/m]
560 = 71 [Springfield, Mo., 130 mi., mild heterodyne with WIND, Chicago, transmitter at Gary Ind. 330 mi. approx., 80 µV/m]
580 = 66 [Topeka, Ks., 180 mi., about 40 µV/m]
590 = 63 [Omaha, Neb., Wood River, Ill underneath, about 25 µV/m]
600 = 60 [Cedar Rapids, Ia., 43 µV/m]
610 = 57-1/2 [Kansas City, 120 mi., 62µV/m]
630 = 53 [St. Louis, 60µV/m] ... and on up the dial with loggings at 680, 690, 710, 730, 750, 760, 810, 850, 860 etc.


In summary, main tuning is the large dial, the rheostats are critical especially "amp increase" and coupling worked in tandem control feedback while the two inductance tap switches regulate coupling with the antenna.

The sensitivity nearly matches the best of the Neutrodynes. The Grebe MU-1 needs new audios; when fitted, that receiver claimed to be "hot" will be tested.

Grabbed the log sheet for a Freed-Eisemann NR-7 [s/n 523EE] and here are some dial settings....

610 76-1/2 73-1/2 73-1/2
710 57 55 53-1/2
730 54 52 51
810 44 42 41
900 36 34 41
990 29 28 26-1/2
1050 26 24-1/2 23
1070 24-1/2 23-1/2 22
1120 22 21 19-1/2
1230 17 17 14-1/2
1400 10 11 0

Several of the Freed-Eisemann receivers have been especially selective above 1200 kc.


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 Post subject: Re: Federal Telephone and Telegraph Co. DX Type-58
PostPosted: Jun Fri 21, 2013 3:52 am 
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Joined: Dec Mon 05, 2011 1:10 am
Posts: 243
A couple of comments:

The Federal DX-58 is actually a very sensitive and selective regenerative receiver. It will blow the sox off of most any of the common Neutrodyne 5-tube 3-dialers out there, likely including the much praised Grebe Synchrophase. The didn't call it "DX" for nothing!

Control of regeneration is a little sneaky (I think maybe because Federal didn't license the patent and so didn't want to talk about it too openly). The "AMP." control is NOT a filament control rheostat; it is actually a potentiometer which varies the grid bias on the RF amplifier tube. This knob is probably the most critical twiddle for achieving maximum sensitivity / selectivity on this radio. Read the instructions posted by Alan Douglas carefully ... the hiss and click they talk about mark the onset of oscillation, and the point of maximum sensitivity / selectivity is right before oscillation starts. Check to make sure that this pot is good; it is delicate and is (along with the audio transformers) one of the most common trouble spots of this set.

In your fotos, it looks like you may be using tipped 201 / 301 type tubes? If so, STOP! Those suckers are way too valuable to use in most anything except an exposed-tube or "breadboard" set. Plus, you will get better performance out of ordinary 01-A and 00-A tubes worth maybe 1/5 the value.

As others have already noted, you don't need a 00 or 00-A detector tube. With proper adjustment of the "AMP." control and detector B+ voltage (~45V), an 01-A will perform virtually indistinguishably from an 00-A and better than an 00.

An external variable capacitor between your antenna and the "ANT." terminal may help.

I don't remember for sure, but I think this radio may only tune up to around 1300 kHz or so. If you find this, it's a design issue, not a defect. I think the broadcast band was a bit narrower back then.


DD

^^;;^^


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 Post subject: Re: Federal Telephone and Telegraph Co. DX Type-58
PostPosted: Jun Mon 24, 2013 4:24 pm 
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Joined: Jun Wed 05, 2013 7:47 am
Posts: 30
Thank you everyone, for the wonderful information!

I seem to be pulling a few stations. I did try the 45v 01a instead of a 00 and the volume was decreased significantly vs the 00 tube even with 45+ volts on the Det 01a. I only have about a 30 foot antenna outside at the moment.

Also does the federal top out at 1200 AM? Cant reach 1220 at the zero setting on the Sed Cond.
My other radio NR-6 can pick it up well

Is it normal for the Federal to have less volume then the Freed Eisemenn?
I usually get into oscillation if try to get same volume of the Freed Eisemen out of the federal.

I do have a 275 to 600 meter coil that i have tried be performance seems poor. I don't seem to get any extra stations.
with that coil the amp control has to be very low near off before oscillation.


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 Post subject: Re: Federal Telephone and Telegraph Co. DX Type-58
PostPosted: Jun Mon 24, 2013 5:04 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 30698
Location: Pocasset, Cape Cod, MA
Quote:
Also does the federal top out at 1200 AM?
Wouldn't be surprising, since there were no broadcast stations anywhere near that when the set was designed.


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 Post subject: Re: Federal Telephone and Telegraph Co. DX Type-58
PostPosted: Jun Wed 26, 2013 3:24 pm 
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Joined: Jun Wed 05, 2013 7:47 am
Posts: 30
Good to know :) What about the gain, normal to have lower gain on the federal 4 tube vs a 5 tube?


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 Post subject: Re: Federal Telephone and Telegraph Co. DX Type-58
PostPosted: Jun Wed 26, 2013 5:05 pm 
Member

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 30698
Location: Pocasset, Cape Cod, MA
There should be plenty of volume, given a decent antenna.


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