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 Post subject: Philco Model 46-113 Phonograph & AM/FM in Cabinet
PostPosted: Dec Wed 06, 2017 5:50 am 
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Joined: Dec Wed 06, 2017 5:20 am
Posts: 1
Please let me first say that I truly apologize for wasting anyone's time should it be found that I am posting in an inappropriate section for what I am hoping to learn. First let me explain what it is I am asking about, it's a Philco phonograph and AM/FM Model 46-1213 inside the original cabinet. For further accuracy I'd like to mention a small metal "tag" affixed to the side of the phonograph, the following is printed upon this gold tag;
"MODEL 88/4"
"Schedule No 52750/4"
"100/130V & 200/250V"
"16 WATTS"
"125/25AMP"
Set Correct Speed and Stylus"
"Made in England"

From what I have provided is anyone able to provide me with even a rough ballpark figure of what it's worth. It was offered to me for $50, but I know truly nothing when it comes to vintage electronics. I am just afraid of buying it and being stuck with something that's essentially worthless. Anything at all would be a tremendous assistance and most truly appreciated. I thank you for taking the time to read my post and hope someone may offer even the slightest advice, thank you again.


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 Post subject: Re: Philco Model 46-113 Phonograph & AM/FM in Cabinet
PostPosted: Dec Wed 06, 2017 2:25 pm 
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Joined: May Wed 16, 2012 6:58 pm
Posts: 255
Location: Eastlake, Michigan
Seems to be in fairly decent shape.

Does it come with the record changer spindle? Picture seems to show the manual play spindle. Garrard changer sells for that and more on Ebay.

Receiver uses the Philco FM1000 FM detector circuit rather than a discriminator or ratio detector. Technical data is found in Ryder V15, philco page 47. Receiver will need a complete electronics restoration, most anything needed should be available. Plugging in a non restored radio is not recommended.

If you like it, make him an offer.


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 Post subject: Re: Philco Model 46-113 Phonograph & AM/FM in Cabinet
PostPosted: Dec Wed 06, 2017 3:43 pm 
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Joined: Apr Sun 01, 2012 9:55 pm
Posts: 8122
Location: Seattle area, WA
Some technical info available here, and pics of what an original looks like:

https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/philco_46_1213.html

It's not a bad radio, was obviously an upscale model with 11 tubes and push-pull 6V6 amplifier. Will probably sound nice. The early FM circuits on most 1946 radios weren't that stable. Expect it to drift off station a lot and need frequent touch-up tuning on FM.

It looks to me like it's been stripped and refinished without toner, which means it is entirely the wrong color. It's like a car that's been repainted in a non-factory color. Some people look at a purple VW Bus and see a cool chick magnet, while others just see an abomination that would never have left the factory in its current state. :x

The problem with that is, these side-by-side combos aren't very collectible in the first place because they're so huge, and the styling isn't much to write home about. There's no chick magnet effect. No market demand. That means that, as a class, they're a dime a dozen, extremely common on the market, no-one can sell them, can hardly even give them away. They're mono only, where if you're gonna pick up something that big, it would be nice if it had stereo. Most collectors would not be interested in it at any price, wouldn't even take it for free. But of the few who would, they'd be interested only if it was a perfectly-cared-for, nearly mint-condition original, and this one isn't.

Overall I would say it's up to you if you want to spend $50 on it, but it's unlikely you'd be able to turn around and resell it for $50. It has to be something you really love, a keeper. If you're asking us about it, essentially strangers, then I'm guessing you didn't fall immediately in love with the crazy purple bus that it is.

It will need the radio entirely rebuilt electrically, and the phonograph rebuilt mechanically. Which will cost $$$, varying amounts depending how much you do yourself and how much you hire out. That will be a labor of love... None of the money spent on restoring it will be reflected in the unit's value when it's finished. It will still be worth only $0-50 after it's completely up and running.

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Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with a chainsaw.


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 Post subject: Re: Philco Model 46-113 Phonograph & AM/FM in Cabinet
PostPosted: Dec Wed 06, 2017 4:32 pm 
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Joined: Jan Mon 16, 2012 4:15 pm
Posts: 3595
Location: Near Brandon, Iowa
I'm not sure that this set was stripped and refinished: it may be an example of a "blonde" or honey-toned finish. This finish color was never wildly popular but it did exist from the 1930s to the 1950s, when it suddenly lost whatever degree of fashion favor that it had once held (probably displaced by the twin horrors of Danish Contemporary and American Colonial styling/coloration).

One "tell" is that the finish color appears to be very uniform, both on the exterior and interior (i.e., when the doors are closed) surfaces. Also, the knob function decals appear to still be in place. Either this is an admirable stripping/refinishing job, or it is a mostly original finish (it's possible that someone gave it a careful wipedown with a permanent (linseed oil, tung oil) finish liquid, or a temporary (wax, lemon oil) shine-enhancer to mitigate finish age-cracking- can't tell from the photo).

In any event, the set isn't worth a lot of money. I would probably pass on it even if it were to magically appear in my shop... old consoles tend to be a self-limiting collectible due to the large space volume that they occupy and low functionality (compared to modern entertainment devices). But the opinions of others shouldn't matter if the piece "speaks" to you.


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 Post subject: Re: Philco Model 46-113 Phonograph & AM/FM in Cabinet
PostPosted: Dec Wed 06, 2017 4:55 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 176
Location: Arlington, TX, USA
I have one of these in the darker finish cabinet. The Garrard changer is not original, but was most likely installed many years ago as the original had 78 RPM only and the owner wanted to be able to play the newer 33 and 45 RPM records on it.

The AM performance is above average and has a wider audio response than most radios of the time. FM has decent senstivity, but the detector bandwidth is a bit narrow so tuning is critical and will have some distortion with modern station broadcast audio practices.

Unfortunately these late 40s-early 50s consoles don't sell well and probably never will. However in terms of performance they are about the best of the bunch up to the HI Fi era which began shortly after. They just don't have the styling of the earlier consoles of the previous war era.


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 Post subject: Re: Philco Model 46-113 Phonograph & AM/FM in Cabinet
PostPosted: Dec Wed 06, 2017 5:00 pm 
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Joined: Nov Wed 27, 2013 5:59 am
Posts: 382
Location: Metzger Oregon
Looks at the photo of the tag inside the cabinet, it looks like the finish is the same color in there, and looks to be factory done.

The record changer should be a Philco model, someone swapped it for the Garrard (which is a great changer) It doesn't look too out of place, but is a replacement.

I think you need to decide if this is something that appeals to you, and look closely for any condition issues, knowing that it's something that's not in high demand.


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 Post subject: Re: Philco Model 46-113 Phonograph & AM/FM in Cabinet
PostPosted: Dec Wed 06, 2017 7:00 pm 
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Joined: Dec Sat 23, 2006 5:49 pm
Posts: 1208
Location: missouri ozarks
I have the 48-something model of this set. It was given to me, partially taken apart. I patched it back together and used a later BSR stereo changer. It is a good performer, but like was mentioned earlier, the FM tends to drift. AM performance is exceptional. I have two 12" PM speakers in mine. I would not hesitate to give $50 for another, toner or no toner.

_________________
Always be yourself. Everybody else is already taken.


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 Post subject: Re: Philco Model 46-113 Phonograph & AM/FM in Cabinet
PostPosted: Dec Wed 06, 2017 11:03 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 1397
Location: Long Beach, CA USA
Finish looks like it might be correct original. Hard to imagine someone doing so thorough a refinish inside and out on a $50 console. Looks better like this than the darker toned one to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Philco Model 46-113 Phonograph & AM/FM in Cabinet
PostPosted: Dec Wed 06, 2017 11:54 pm 
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Joined: Dec Mon 08, 2008 8:27 pm
Posts: 8101
Location: alameda,CA
I think the price is fair and the finish looks original too. Just realize that at its age you should really either restore it or have someone restore it for you since a lot of critical components inside have almost assuredly deteriorated to a point where they will need replacement.


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 Post subject: Re: Philco Model 46-113 Phonograph & AM/FM in Cabinet
PostPosted: Dec Fri 08, 2017 9:45 pm 
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Joined: Dec Tue 20, 2016 6:33 pm
Posts: 39
lorenz200w wrote:
IThis finish color was never wildly popular but it did exist from the 1930s to the 1950s, when it suddenly lost whatever degree of fashion favor that it had once held (probably displaced by the twin horrors of Danish Contemporary and American Colonial styling/coloration).


:lol:

But of the two the Danish contemporary was slightly less horrific IMO......


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