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 Post subject: Re: Reproduction capacitor
PostPosted: Nov Wed 04, 2015 8:08 pm 
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Location: Medford OR
Don Cavey wrote:
Poston Drake wrote:
Don Cavey wrote:
My biggest complaint about stuffing tubular capacitors is the wire gauge of the new capacitors. It is smaller. What I did do was to buy a roll of buss wire and hope to splice it to the ends of the capacitor under the wax. Maybe ... maybe not...

Hi Don,
Yes, wire gauge of new cap leads is often smaller ...

... But to each his own in terms of methods.


My feelings ... EXACTLY on all accounts.


Yes. I put the splice to larger bus wire inside of the housing of the restuffed cap. Plenty of room since the new cap (inside) is so much smaller.

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 Post subject: Re: Reproduction capacitor
PostPosted: Nov Wed 04, 2015 8:51 pm 
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azenithnut wrote:
After looking for 3 original Zenith capacitors for my 440, and finding only one, I decided to try my hand at making them. Some are made by Aerovox and some are made by Mallory. I chose to make the Aerovox version. :D I found the cardboard and brass eyelets at Hobby Lobby. The box is made of Canson Colorline board 19" X 25" 184 lb 200041452. The bottom piece is made of Canson Conservation board 16" X 20" 400024153. These were both in the Arts section next to the picture frames. The brass eyelets are "Sew-ology" brand 5/32" Gold eyelets 109413 found in the sewing section. I'm cutting the holes with a Darice hole punch 1201-35, but there must be something better... The terminals are from Midwest Surplus in Fairborn. They have plenty of them! I just used the same eyelets to mount them. I took the scan of the label and doctored it up in GIMP then printed them out on yellow paper. The rating is 8 uf @ 500VDC, so I took two mylar 18 uf @ 250VDC and put them in series. The two 5.1 MEG ohm balancing resistors are probably unnecessary, but, what the heck. :D Just wanted to share. Thanks! -Steve


A great job at replication Steve. Best of all you have shared the tools used, the materials, where you got them and the technique.

Thanks very much.

FYI My Mom worked for Aerovox New Bedford as was winder in the early 50's. I began my working career at Continental Elastic diagonally opposite of Aerovox in 1965. Later, I worked next door at the Naushon Mill owned by Acushnet Co. from 1989 to 1994. Known as plant "B" R&D. Acushnet long ago removed the boilers and was buying low pressure steam from Aerovox. The boiler room was converted to a gymnasium.

Acushnet research moved to a newer building on 333 Bridge St., Fairhaven MA. There I met a young woman as a chemical engineer/electrical engineer who had formerly worked at Aerovox when they were building power factor correction capacitors. She told me of the immense pulse currents when testing the capacitors in the basement. Seems the inductors laid in a vault that was partially under Belleville Ave. Huge cables labeled with the inductances in henrys, on the order of 4/0 were connected to a switch board. It was her job to test the capacitors in relationship to the correct inductances and voltage. The current was so intense that the the 4/0 cables would actually jump more than a foot off of the floor.

As you may know Aerovox New Bedford was part of the PCB super-fund sight there was a cut off date for them to leave the building and move to the New Bedford Industrial Park. After that time no one except authorized DEP officials and workers could enter. No one could remove test equipment or do any salvage. They found PCB oil everywhere and deposited on equipment office furniture etc. It ALL had to go as hazardous waste. The building was torn down to below the water table and out to the Acushnet River bank. It was monitored and drainage setup, backfilled as a "Brown Field".

I do not know where the box type capacitors were made, as Aerovox had more than one plant. I do know they made the common tubulars and the flat packs for power factor correction.

Chas

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 Post subject: Re: Reproduction capacitor
PostPosted: Nov Wed 04, 2015 10:40 pm 
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Wow, Chas, thank you for the background of your experience with Aerovox!
That is very interesting! :D

I know, it doesn't help identify which factory it was made, but this is what was inside the black box. I was surprised as the Mallory versions are simply the rolled up dry electrolytic and some gauze stuffed inside. Clearly Aerovox made a superior product!

Image

Yes, the wire gauge of the new caps is smaller and short, so I too have a roll of tinned 20 AWG bare wire to make proper leads.
I also have a roll of 18 AWG for larger heavier caps.

As I recall, I bought both rolls through Amazon.

Looking for sources of cardboard tubing, model rocket and fireworks supply outlets might have perfect sizes.

-Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Reproduction capacitor
PostPosted: Nov Thu 05, 2015 12:21 am 
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Don, Robert, Thank you both for your kind comments.

Robert, I've seen you create even nicer reproductions, so I am honored!

-Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Reproduction capacitor
PostPosted: Aug Tue 16, 2016 12:34 am 
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Well, I seem to have gone into production on these things. The first pic shows 11 of them so far. 3 are complete, the rest need to be stuffed and sealed and label attached.

I've several Zeniths which use them. As many as 3 each. Most are missing...
As they are difficult/impossible to find originals, this is the only way.

So, I thought I would share the dimensions and pattern in case anyone wants the info. Yes, I know I dropped the height of the box. I found the caps fit inside better and the lower profile fits into the radio better.

I apologize for not sharing this before. The sources for the materials are in my original post of this thread. Hobby Lobby still has the stuff.... though a little on the pricy side.
All is glued together with Elmer's white glue. Best stuff for this job I know of! :D

-Steve

EDIT: Here are 18 finished caps! :D


Attachments:
11-22-167.jpg
11-22-167.jpg [ 57.55 KiB | Viewed 3910 times ]
22-167.gif
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zenith22-167cap-dimensions.gif
zenith22-167cap-dimensions.gif [ 9.01 KiB | Viewed 3910 times ]
22-167x18.jpg
22-167x18.jpg [ 116.1 KiB | Viewed 3848 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Reproduction capacitor
PostPosted: Jul Tue 04, 2017 8:38 am 
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Hello Steve,
I really like your Cap you did far box one I am rebuilding A zenith model 908 when was recapping the chassis I noticed it had couple those box type caps mounted in the bottom someone replaced the original top mount can with them .
anyway I still have those box caps and they are in good shape .


Attachments:
zenith 908 chassis bottom.JPG
zenith 908 chassis bottom.JPG [ 206 KiB | Viewed 3608 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Reproduction capacitor
PostPosted: Jul Tue 04, 2017 12:55 pm 
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I have been restuffing tubular capacitors for 25 years, so I thought that I would share the details. First, I take the old capacitor and heat it with a heat gun, holding one lead with a pair of pliers or a hemostat. When the wax starts to melt, I wipe it with a paper towel to remove the dirty wax coating.

The next step is to heat the capacitor body. Keep the heat gun moving, and rotate the capacitor to prevent the cardboard tube from overheating. When the wax starts to bubble, hold the pliers with one hand, and grip the capacitor with the other hand, using a paper towel. If the wax has softened enough, the old capacitor will pull right out of the cardboard tube. Some capacitors from the 1950s are plastic or epoxy filled, and do not melt; these can't be restuffed.

If one wire pulls off, you will have to pull on the other wire; this is usually because the capacitor wasn't heated enough. In stubborn cases, a small screwdriver can be used to poke it out.

Now, it's time to install the new capacitor. As the new capacitor is going to be smaller in diameter, I wind it with masking tape to make its diameter almost the same size as the internal diameter of the cardboard tube. If you want to splice larger wires on, this is the time to do it.

Finally, it's time to put it back together. Push the new capacitor into the tube; if the fit is too tight, remove some of the tape. Position the new cap about in the center of the tube, and turn it upon one end. I use a "helping hand" (two alligator clips on an iron base) for this step. Add hot glue to the end until it is almost full, and let it solidify; don't disturb it until it has hardened. Then, repeat the process for the other end. Some of the old wax can be melted into each end if desired, using a soldering iron with an old tip. I do two at a time, which speeds things up a bit.

Wear old clothes when you do this, and be careful with the hot wax!

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Last edited by Tim Tress on Jul Tue 04, 2017 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Reproduction capacitor
PostPosted: Jul Tue 04, 2017 2:06 pm 
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Thanks Tim, thats basically how I do it.

In addition to the hot melt glue, I usually use beeswax to finish it off for a more natural appearance.

Though a block of it costs $15 at Hobby Lobby, it goes a long way.

Rich, they come in handy if you want to fill a void.
I started reproducing the Zenith caps because most of the radios I have which use that type are missing.
I was inspired by the work of Bill Morris (Batterymaker) and Robert Lozier.

-Steve


Attachments:
beeswax.jpg
beeswax.jpg [ 111.66 KiB | Viewed 3594 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Reproduction capacitor
PostPosted: Jul Wed 05, 2017 4:55 am 
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Hello Steve
What I use is my crockpot with water in it and a coffee cup with a small aluminum can that put bees wax in then I use color red crayons to make the wax a darker color that why I will have the wax heating while I have done caps waiting to fill the ends what I do is cut thin carboard that will fill the end and poke a tony hole for the lead of he cap then fill it with wax .

Sincerely Richard
P.S I will post some photos of the caps that zenith is completely done but the filter cap all coupling caps have been restuffed.


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 Post subject: Re: Reproduction capacitor
PostPosted: Jul Fri 07, 2017 2:58 am 
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I am really glad to see these efforts. These replica caps look great and fulfil the need (and desire) to fix old radios while maintaining their proper appearance inside and out.

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 Post subject: Re: Reproduction capacitor
PostPosted: Jul Fri 07, 2017 2:20 pm 
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Great job Steve. Just be careful not to start selling using the Aerovox name. They have been known to protect their trademark... Anyway, they look fantastic. Did you ever build any of the round capacitor covers? I may want to try to make a few (I cannot find them sold anywhere) and thought I would try spray paint and a paper towel roll. I will have to cut some for the top and then spray paint it black.


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 Post subject: Re: Reproduction capacitor
PostPosted: Jul Tue 11, 2017 12:12 am 
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Richard, thank you! I look forward to your pics.

Chris, Sean, thank you too!
As I don't plan on selling any with Aerovox's name on them, I hope they won't come after me. :wink:

I've made tubular type caps too such as this one.
I'm always looking for cardboard tubes of different sizes. I think some may be available from either model rocket suppliers or fireworks suppliers.
I got quite a few from the machine shop at work as they used to get milling bits in cardboard sleeves.

-Steve


Attachments:
homemadecap.jpg
homemadecap.jpg [ 18.79 KiB | Viewed 3452 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Reproduction capacitor
PostPosted: Jul Tue 11, 2017 3:53 pm 
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Nice work, both of you!
I have what I call "gasket punches", cheap set maybe from HF.
They are steel, with tubular nose sharpened with outside bevel and cut nicely.
With the patience shown here, you could make what you need, given the right size tubing.
I've made crude ones a couple times when a round hole needed to be cut in the field. Used water pipe and a bench grinder, good enough!
WL

Found them, "Hollow Punch",

https://www.harborfreight.com/catalogse ... sket+punch

Knowing HF quality, you might want to touch them up with emery paper.


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 Post subject: Re: Reproduction capacitor
PostPosted: Jul Tue 11, 2017 4:25 pm 
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Oh Thank you for reminding me! I did find a wonderful solution for punching holes! I just forgot to post about it.

A hole punch I found on Northern Tool's website is reasonably priced and does a wonderful job punching holes in the card stock.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/ ... _200635671

The "Hollow Punch" set is very similar to the Darice punches I have, but more variety of sizes. I will still get some and try them out.
Thank you!

-Steve


Attachments:
northern-tool-punch.jpg
northern-tool-punch.jpg [ 45.36 KiB | Viewed 3429 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Reproduction capacitor
PostPosted: Jul Tue 11, 2017 4:47 pm 
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I have used one like that for punching copper ground strap at radio stations, nice.
WL


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 Post subject: Re: Reproduction capacitor
PostPosted: Sep Fri 22, 2017 5:03 pm 
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Location: Sterling, VA
I have Philco 39-7 and it is missing a can capacitor. The can capacitor is actually an mdf 300v Electrolytic capacitor 30-2327. I believe it looks similar to the attachment. I have been looking for quite sometime to get a replacement (a non working replacement) as I have re-capped the radio. While this is a hard to find part, is there a way to actually reproduce this can capacitor?


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 Post subject: Re: Reproduction capacitor
PostPosted: Sep Sat 23, 2017 12:20 am 
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I'm sure something similar could be installed.
If you want the exact style with the exact markings, then one would need to be found, or machined to look like the original, then somehow print the text and markings onto the can.

one idea is to use a laser engraver to make a rubber stamp, roll it in ink or paint and print the markings onto the can.

Laser engravers are becoming increasingly less expensive or you can find someone or a business which has one where they could do the work.
Even "Maker" places are popping up which have 3D printers and laser engravers. Just need to make the proper image file which the engraver can use.

I know I'm just throwing ideas around. Can caps with a threaded nut base aren't all that hard to find.

-Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Reproduction capacitor
PostPosted: Sep Sat 23, 2017 1:26 am 
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Thanks Steve. My philco 39-7 has 2 can capacitors. Lucky me I have one out of the 2 with half of the text on it. So at least I have the reference of what the can looks like with some text. I will still look around to see if I can find a close enough match to put in my philco and see if I can make a reproduction of the one I have. I know it is only 1 can capacitor and maybe the cost is not justified however I was just wondering if anyone knew or did reproduction of those can capacitors.


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 Post subject: Re: Reproduction capacitor
PostPosted: Jan Tue 09, 2018 6:31 pm 
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Experimenting around a bit on printing the Mallory logo on card stock, I came up with these.

It wasn't easy getting everything to line up.

This is a work in progress.

-Steve


Attachments:
mallory-boxes1.jpg
mallory-boxes1.jpg [ 198.59 KiB | Viewed 1828 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Reproduction capacitor
PostPosted: Jan Tue 09, 2018 8:39 pm 
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Location: hillsborough, nc
I have an Aerovox can with good label.
WL


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