Forums :: Resources :: Features :: Photo Gallery :: Vintage Radio Shows :: Archives :: Books
Support This Site: Contributors :: Advertise


It is currently Feb Sat 17, 2018 8:25 pm


All times are UTC [ DST ]





Post New Topic Post Reply  [ 32 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Wife Buys Car Loves it Hits Deer
PostPosted: Dec Tue 12, 2017 6:01 pm 
Member

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 7465
Location: Litchfield Minnesota USA
A couple years ago my wife bought a 2008 Cadillac STS-4 on a well known site where you can buy about anything. It was in Lawrence Kansas. I was in Fargo helping my son at his auto repair business. I get home and she proudly announces she bought a 'new' car. I asked her where it's located and she goes, "hmm. I hadn't thought about that."
We rented a car and drove down there to pick it up.
NICE CAR! Low mileage for being seven years old. She spent all her savings on it and has been very happy with it.
Last Saturday night we took off in separate cars to go to the same place, a play she wanted to go to and she wanted me to be with her. But I had to be in the Cities by 11:00 PM, the town with the play is on the way, so I drove separately and headed on to the Cities after the play. I was SO relieved when the play was over...
On the way to the play she was ahead of me on Meeker County Rd. 14 just north of Darwin, MN.
Behind her, I saw a deer run out aiming for her car. Her brakes came on, but you can almost never miss hitting the deer because they intentionally wait until it's too late for you to stop. I know this - I have chalked up 7 deer hits so far. She just started the count at 1.
She was devastated and is still in a funk about her car. It's nasty, but reparable. We called the cops, they went out and got the deer, the car is not drivable so we left it there until Sunday morning because we couldn't get it towed that night. The engine would run, but with a crankshaft driven fan grinding in the destroyed radiator it wasn't going to go very far. But she could drive it enough to get it far off the road. We left the flashers on. That, of course, made the battery go dead.
The drivers door is shifted back about 1/8", just enough so she had to crawl over the center console and got out the passengers side. We went back home and got another car for her to drive and we went on to the play.

This car is so dependent on electronics and battery power for everything that when the battery goes dead you cannot open the front doors. Even if the doors are unlocked with battery power on, if the battery is disconnected the doors automatically lock.
There is no back-up release anywhere in the car. I looked. I also checked the owners manual. It says nothing about an emergency release.
Before the wrecker got there in the morning, I had to go back out there with a battery and jumper cables to put enough power into the car so I could open the passengers side door and get the thing into neutral. And yes, you guessed it. You cannot take the shift lever out of park without battery power!!! That's why I had to get into the car.
I got that done because the hood was buckled up in the middle about a foot, so I could reach in with jumper cables and get some power back into the battery on the car and the door opened with the fob and I stepped on the brake pedal and shifted it out of park. Once I had it in neutral I could shut the passengers side door, removed the cables and battery. Then the doors locked again as they are designed to do.

Think about this!!! Something happens to your car that causes you to need to exit the burning wreckage immediately. If the power is cut because of the incident you can't get out!
I keep planning to get one of those punches to break the window, but never seem to remember to do it. But in any case the windows aren't especially high and I doubt she could get out of that comfortable but not especially spacious drivers seat area, especially since she wouldn't be able to move the seat back for more room to move.

It brings my mind back several years when a guy was driving down I-694 in the Twin Cities and his Ford mini-van caught on fire. He pulled to the side of the road and tried to get out, but was locked in because the doors wouldn't unlock. In his case, there MIGHT have been an emergency release, but I'd bet 99.9% of the populace has no clue as to whether they have an emergency release or not. This man was trapped, but another motorist stopped, got out of his car and smashed the window and helped the guy get out. He suffered some serious burns but he did survive.

For all you guys out there with all-electronic/electric cars out there, figure out how you would get out of your car if the power is lost. Most cars, I believe, do have an emergency release. Finding it, knowing where it is (usually under a seat) is paramount.

Mark D.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wife Buys Car Loves it Hits Deer
PostPosted: Dec Tue 12, 2017 6:09 pm 
Moderator

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 26058
Location: Detroit, MI USA
Ought to be illegal to build a car like that, and I'd expect a good attorney could collect many millions in the event of a serious incident which would not have occurred if the person had easily been able to exit the vehicle. The only complaint I have about my wife's Honda is that you cannot open the doors from inside without first actuating the electric door lock to unlock the door and there does not appear to be any emergency release. Intuitively, it should be mandatory that if you use the inside door handle it automatically opens the door with no further action required.

Some car windows are extremely difficult to break, even the first responders have trouble with them, from what I have been told the best method is to hit with a heavy pointy object near a lower corner, hitting in the middle or near the top will often just result in the tool bouncing off the glass.

_________________
Dennis

Experience is what you gain when the results aren't what you were expecting.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wife Buys Car Loves it Hits Deer
PostPosted: Dec Tue 12, 2017 6:24 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Apr Thu 19, 2012 6:50 am
Posts: 1805
Location: Connecticut
Oh my god .I'm glad that you wife is physically OK Mark .It will take awhile mentally to heal. Not a fan of the electric windows and locks.I post this on another thread here about if the car hit something and rolls into a river or lake.

_________________
Skip......


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wife Buys Car Loves it Hits Deer
PostPosted: Dec Tue 12, 2017 7:54 pm 
Member

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 7465
Location: Litchfield Minnesota USA
If a car goes into water that is deep enough to flood the insides of the doors, generally the window motor and door lock solenoid or motor, depending on the make and model, will not work.
That's why driving over an ice covered body of water one should have a door open in each seat that has an occupant. If the car begins to go through the ice and you act quickly enough you can sometimes delay or even stop the car from going all the way down if the doors are open and catch on the ice. It also allows a chance to escape the car before it becomes a coffin.

Mark D.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wife Buys Car Loves it Hits Deer
PostPosted: Dec Tue 12, 2017 8:28 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jun Sun 19, 2011 2:31 pm
Posts: 5146
Mark,

Were you not able to unlock/open the front door with the physical key which is contained within the RKE fob (it slides out of the bottom of the fob)? Depending upon the style of door handle the key opening may be covered by a cosmetic plate that pops off.

Rodger WQ9E


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wife Buys Car Loves it Hits Deer
PostPosted: Dec Tue 12, 2017 9:33 pm 
Member

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 17066
Location: Albuquerque, NM 87123
Hitting a deer destroys the radiator and pushes it into the fan and the hood is buckled? Just how fast was your wife going?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wife Buys Car Loves it Hits Deer
PostPosted: Dec Tue 12, 2017 9:43 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 26383
Location: SoCal, 91387
Mark D wrote:
you can almost never miss hitting the deer because they intentionally wait until it's too late for you to stop. I know this - I have chalked up 7 deer hits so far.

What would cause them to wait like that?

_________________
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\He Who Dies With The Most Radios Wins//////////////////


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wife Buys Car Loves it Hits Deer
PostPosted: Dec Tue 12, 2017 9:58 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Apr Thu 21, 2011 2:00 am
Posts: 3096
Location: Georgia, 30236
fifties wrote:
Mark D wrote:
you can almost never miss hitting the deer because they intentionally wait until it's too late for you to stop. I know this - I have chalked up 7 deer hits so far.

What would cause them to wait like that?


The Lights getting closer for a clear look, coupled with the inability to work out the speed of their approach.

_________________
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
— Arthur C. Clarke


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wife Buys Car Loves it Hits Deer
PostPosted: Dec Tue 12, 2017 10:05 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jun Sun 19, 2011 2:31 pm
Posts: 5146
I have been involved in two accidents with deer, both on foot :)

Several years ago I was running in the late afternoon in mid-summer and a doe popped out of the deep grass in a roadside ditch and froze in front of me. I had to push off her shoulder to keep from running into her. She stared at me for a moment then ran off into the field.

After that I was a little paranoid about running into another one but after a couple of years I decided that was unlikely to happen again. But three years ago I was out for another run alongside a corn field in late summer with the corn at full growth and another doe came charging out of the corn giving me little time to react and she scored a near direct hit but I managed to turn slightly so it was more of a glancing blow that did cause me to lose my balance. She continued at full speed across the road and I stood back up and was about to resume running when a local high school student who had witnessed it came screeching to a stop to see if I was OK.

So except for a minor bruise my interaction with deer has not been bad but I am hoping that the experience doesn't repeat. I have stopped several times for deer while driving and had a few close calls but no hits.

Rodger WQ9E


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wife Buys Car Loves it Hits Deer
PostPosted: Dec Tue 12, 2017 10:12 pm 
Member

Joined: Dec Sat 23, 2006 5:49 pm
Posts: 1217
Location: missouri ozarks
Johnny, you don't have to be going very fast at all to cause lots of damage when you hit a deer with a car. I am under the impression that deer get frightened when they see a car coming toward them and freeze in their tracks for a split second. Then they take off in the direction of danger rather than trying to avoid it.

_________________
Always be yourself. Everybody else is already taken.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wife Buys Car Loves it Hits Deer
PostPosted: Dec Tue 12, 2017 10:14 pm 
Member

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 11169
Location: North of Mpls, Minnesota
Johnnysan wrote:
Hitting a deer destroys the radiator and pushes it into the fan and the hood is buckled? Just how fast was your wife going?

A 200 lb deer can do a lot of damage, even at 50 mph.

Dave


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wife Buys Car Loves it Hits Deer
PostPosted: Dec Tue 12, 2017 10:25 pm 
Member

Joined: Aug Sat 08, 2015 9:50 pm
Posts: 523
Location: Fort Worth, TX 76108
Johnnysan wrote:
Hitting a deer destroys the radiator and pushes it into the fan and the hood is buckled? Just how fast was your wife going?

Energy = mass times velocity squared


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wife Buys Car Loves it Hits Deer
PostPosted: Dec Tue 12, 2017 10:53 pm 
Member

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 7465
Location: Litchfield Minnesota USA
In daylight she would have been going around 65. She was going around 60. I can judge that because I was not far behind her and that's what I was going. I wanted to go slower just because I know how many deer are out there waiting for a car to come along that they want to kill. (that's my light take on those incredibly stupid animals) I would have been going around 45 so that the damage would be less. You'd still hit the deer, but do corresponding less damage.
"You would still hit the deer" - About a year or so ago I wrote here about hitting a deer on that SAME ROAD as my wife, but going the other direction in my '94 Suburban. A deer jumped out right in front of me. I was just accelerating out of Darwin (about a mile south of my wife's incident) and was only going about 45 - I was heading for 65.
I had both feet on the brake pedal as soon as I saw the deer. All that did was break the right front brake rotor so I lost all braking from that wheel. I hit the deer twice while I was trying to stop. The first hit threw it forward and I hit it again as it landed and my bumper hit it again. Total damage to Suburban was a broken left turn signal and a broken brake rotor. That is still my most recent deer kill. I hope it stays that way. My lifetime score is 7 at this time. I hate those nasty oversized rats.
Although, when I see mama doe teaching her little spotted fawn that is just learning the ropes on how to kill a car and other deer entertainment it is fascinating to watch them. My woods is full of those critters and I do leave them alone. One hit my car in the passenger side door while I was coming up my driveway. I don't count that in my 7 because no damage was done. But that's how stupid they are.

This deer, like most, was running full warp speed. I saw it. There was another deer with it that ran across just as my wife hit the first one.

But with rsing's (did I get that right?- MEMORY) story's about deer going after HIM, not a car it tens to make me think that they just run and don't look at anything while they're running. Their legs are going warp speed and their poor excuse of a brain is completely shut down. No thought process at all.

Mark D.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wife Buys Car Loves it Hits Deer
PostPosted: Dec Tue 12, 2017 11:10 pm 
Member

Joined: Sep Thu 23, 2010 6:37 am
Posts: 9531
Location: Powell River BC Canada
Johnnysan wrote:
Hitting a deer destroys the radiator and pushes it into the fan and the hood is buckled? Just how fast was your wife going?


I slid into an old (built like a brick outhouse) car, on ice, at a stoplight, in a Datsun pickup.
And that is exactly what happened.

Fortunately (?) the car owner got out, looked at her car, and said there wasn't even a scratch.
Then she very quickly drove away.

_________________
de
VE7ASO VE7ZSO
Amateur Radio Literacy Club. May we help you read better.
Steve Dow
ve7aso@rac.ca


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wife Buys Car Loves it Hits Deer
PostPosted: Dec Wed 13, 2017 1:24 am 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Dec Sun 22, 2013 5:03 am
Posts: 2382
Location: Santa Cruz mountains
Deer can literally appear out of nowhere. Anywhere their legs can fit is a pathway. I've seen them pop out of stands with a zillion trees in them.

If you hit one.......NEVER stop and get out of the car, keep on driving for as long as you can, if possible. The reason is that deer are familial animals. If you see one, there are likely others following. Mama and papa deer are likely to be pissed off at you if you hit one of their young, and they are large.

I hit my first deer about a year ago. This is amazing because I've lived in the mountains for over 20 years. it made an awful kind of wailing noise when it was hit. It was lying down in the road afterwards but I don't know if I killed it or not because there was ZERO damage to the body of my car. Yes, there were other deer present, including a Buck with big antlers. No way I was gonna stop and get gored.


There is almost certainly some kind of manual release on that car. I would ask a mechanic about it. No one, not even GM, would be stupid enough to build something like that without a fail-safe. If they did, you'd be hearing about ford-pinto type lawsuits about it by now.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wife Buys Car Loves it Hits Deer
PostPosted: Dec Wed 13, 2017 1:38 am 
Member

Joined: Mar Thu 29, 2012 8:51 pm
Posts: 147
Location: upper midwest
This is the sort of thing that I as a engineer would find infuriating! There MUST be a way to disable this "feature"....

The newest car I have is a 2006 Subaru bought used 2yrs ago and I spent a lot of time searching for one "new" enough not to be used up and a rust bucket but yet "old" enough not to have some of the annoying "features" I can do without.

I myself almost never lock my vehicles unless there is something "valuable" in them. I can get away with this in my area and by the age/patina of said vehicles and never have had a problem fortunately.

Mark, I am sort of familiar with that area you mention. Grew up about 30mi west of "Hutch" and a aunt used to live by Watkins for a number of years.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wife Buys Car Loves it Hits Deer
PostPosted: Dec Wed 13, 2017 2:09 am 
Member

Joined: Oct Thu 20, 2016 3:54 am
Posts: 108
Location: Missoula mt
I bought a 98 cad that was hit in the rear , the plan was to rob the north-star engine for my hot rod. It was summer and I was going to move the car, it will not start and I ran the battery dead trying. Then it hit me I was locked in 100 plus temp, good think for me as I was all alone with a 15 inch crescent wrench ....no more side window. My thoughts were not kind toward GM at that time....WA7OPY


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wife Buys Car Loves it Hits Deer
PostPosted: Dec Wed 13, 2017 2:18 am 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jun Sun 19, 2011 2:31 pm
Posts: 5146
Mark,

Did you check the RKE fob to see about the removable physical key in the bottom? You push the small raised "button" near the bottom on most GM keyfobs to release the physical key and be careful putting it back in not to force it to quickly or it can break the little latching part that keeps the key in place. Most of the older GM vehicles with remote/electric locks have a mechanical key point on both front doors but some have them only on the driver side front door. I believe the STS also has a mechanical trunk key location because most of the older Cadillac models also had that as an entry point. It is important when you buy a used car to make sure the mechanical keys are actually in the fobs and fit your car because people often replace the fob and match it to the car but don't bother with getting a new mechanical key cut.

When the car was new it should have included with it a short brochure with a title of "Getting to Know your 2008 STS" and the emergency unlock procedure would appear there although it would also appear in a well written owner's manual.

My 2008 CTS and current 2014 ATS use the same procedure to get in with a dead battery and you can use the physical key for the driver's door and I believe also the trunk. My 2016 Corvette locks are purely electric but with a dead battery you can open the hatch and then use the manual release cable to open the driver's door. There are also floor mounted manual releases for both the driver and passenger doors near the seat edge in case you are inside when a power failure occurs.

Rodger WQ9E


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wife Buys Car Loves it Hits Deer
PostPosted: Dec Wed 13, 2017 2:55 am 
Member

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 7465
Location: Litchfield Minnesota USA
The key fob does have a removable 'key' for if the fob won't work. However, it only has a key lock on the drivers door. The drivers door was jammed by the left fender having shifted back just enough so if I were to force the door open it would damage both the edge of the door and the otherwise perfectly good fender. In fact, I did try to use the key, then remember that my wife had to crawl over to the passengers side and got out that door.

With regards to "There MUST be some way to open the doors with no power', I have searched the owners manual from cover to cover, the table of contents and the index and there is zero mention of a way to get out of the car. And I keep forgetting and I shut the passengers side door when I walk by it in my shop and then have to hook up the battery to open the door again... from the outside so far.
Now, the REAR doors, which have a normal push button lock on the top of the door panel for locking and unlocking... They don't lock when power goes off. I guess the rear seat people get preferential treatment. It would be very difficult for anyone over the age of 7 to get over the front seats and into the back to get out. Well, if I had to I could get out the rear but it's not my first choice.
I even went to the local GM dealership who USED to also sell Cadillac's. They aren't even aware of this issue.
I'm thinking of going onto a Cadillac discussion forum that I used to sometimes visit but got bored with it, and ask what's up with this stupid arrangement.
I like that car a lot, but this one safety item really annoys me.

Who was it up the list who was going to use a Northstar engine for their hotrod but for some reason that I didn't grasp decided not to,... Anyway, this car also has a Northstar engine. It is one reason my wife picked this car. She knew I 'd like the engine. It was this or a V6. I prefer more torque. The later Northstar engines - like this one - now use Variable Valve Timing. Unfortunately, being All Wheel Drive there's a lot of drag and the gas mileage is only about 20 mpg. All my other N* powered cars (four of them) get around 26 mpg hwy. Less if I push it, which is most of the time. Usually winds up around 23.
N* engines can be hotrodded. But there are better options for that.

Mark D.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wife Buys Car Loves it Hits Deer
PostPosted: Dec Wed 13, 2017 3:18 am 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jun Sun 19, 2011 2:31 pm
Posts: 5146
Mark,

I assume the STS battery is still under the hood. Many of the later models, like my CTS and ATS, moved the battery to the trunk which doesn't necessarily make it easier to change but it is easy to access if you need to apply power assuming the trunk still has the mechanical lock opening.

I defeated the locking gas cover on my Corvette because they are known to fail, it uses a motor to insert or retract a pin in the cover that is over the capless fuel port and if the motor fails it requires disassembly on the road in order to add fuel. The easy solution is to insert a push pin retainer (common automotive fastener) in the hole where the locking pin tries to go.

Her later Northstar should have the improved head bolts although as a car guy you will have no issue going with studs if they fail. Early production Northstar engines had a major issue with insufficient head clamping pressure due to a combination of bolt diameter and location in the block.

Rodger WQ9E


Top
 Profile  
 
Post New Topic Post Reply  [ 32 posts ]  Moderator: Alan Voorhees Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: jim rozen, Mihail-1 and 15 guests



Search for:
Jump to:  






















Privacy Policy :: Powered by phpBB