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 Post subject: Re: Beware Social Security Fraud
PostPosted: Feb Wed 07, 2018 3:18 am 
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Macrohenry wrote:
You are fortunate not because of the hard work you did to get there. Lots of poor folks do hard work. You are fortunate because of the gifts you were given that eventually directed your hard work to fruitful opportunities. You are fortunate to have gifts that gave you discretion about what to avoid. Not everyone has those particular gifts.

Excellent points and description, Macrohenry. Emphasis on "gifts". The rest of us did not get all that handed down to us, and those who did often have no clue how much difference that makes.

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 Post subject: Re: Beware Social Security Fraud
PostPosted: Feb Wed 07, 2018 3:33 am 
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Location: New York, NY
"Work hard" is excellent personal advice, but useless social policy. If everyone worked as hard as you did, you'd be toast.

Hard-working men and women drive progress and propel civilization forward. While it is just reward that to the victor go the spoils, it's human to keep in mind the guy behind you who didn't run quite as fast, and is now being mauled by the bear.


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 Post subject: Re: Beware Social Security Fraud
PostPosted: Feb Thu 08, 2018 4:56 pm 
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Location: Mission Viejo, southern California
metzman wrote:
You find a 100 dollar bill on the sidewalk. You can't spend it bacause it came from a stranger, and you can't give it to charity because you don't believe in it. Now what?
The largest I've every found was a 20, and I really needed money at the time, so was quite grateful. There was no practical way to find whoever lost it, nor to verify that a particular person lost it. My record for picking-up coins left by people who moved-out of vacant buildings was $25!

Yes, we all pay/paid into SS, but that does not mean we get to ignore the reality that the money coming out has to come from somewhere. That somewhere is strangers.

As for being debt free, it is a worthy goal for all. I've had too much debt when younger (stupid), and used debt wisely to purchase appreciating assets. Most people could have far less debt, if they would reject the siren songs of the pushers of debt and the pushers of stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: Beware Social Security Fraud
PostPosted: Feb Thu 08, 2018 7:12 pm 
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Deleted. My bad.


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 Post subject: Re: Beware Social Security Fraud
PostPosted: Feb Fri 09, 2018 4:34 am 
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FStephenMasek wrote:

Yes, we all pay/paid into SS, but that does not mean we get to ignore the reality that the money coming out has to come from somewhere. That somewhere is strangers.

The money going in from us also went to strangers, right? So, the actual reality is;

Quote:
DEFINITION of 'Quid Pro Quo' A Latin phrase meaning "something for something". This term is typically used in financial circles to describe a mutual agreement between two parties in which each party provides a good or service in return for a good or service.

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 Post subject: Re: Beware Social Security Fraud
PostPosted: Feb Sat 10, 2018 5:55 am 
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Joined: May Tue 30, 2006 7:28 am
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Location: Southern Ga. zip 31768 US
I worked for over 45 years and now retired and draw social security each month, I have no regrets working and now drawing what I paid into, since I doubt I could work another 45 years, good luck if you can..
I think any complaints about the social security system should be sent to them and not listed on this forum. Millions of old folks depend on social security just to live each week and month.
Starting problems with the social security system should not be listed on this forum..


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 Post subject: Re: Beware Social Security Fraud
PostPosted: Feb Sun 11, 2018 5:56 pm 
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Fifties: Two wrongs don't make a right. Also, the Baby Boom means that the beneficiary-to-worker ratio will rise to 44 per 100 in 2030.

Just think how much better-off people, especially lower income people, would be if they had received the 12.4% SS tax as pay. That is a significant raise. I not only do not want their money, I want them to have it. Over several decades, especially if invested wisely, it amounts to enough to make a substantial improvement in their net worth when they retire or reduce their working hours.  

Rodney wrote:
Millions of old folks depend on social security just to live each week and month.
Really? Or is it just extra spending money? Around here, all I see is the extra spending money crowd, living in large 55+ communities such as Laguna Woods Village and Casta del Sol. One of the original "selling points" for SS apparently was that people who earned and invested prudently, but who lived far longer than usual could still run out of money. Of course, that would mean the beginning pay-out age would have to be something like 90 or 95.

Anyone, except those very few born without legs or such, who has lived in this land of opportunity and had decades to earn and invest and who has failed to do so should look to relatives or charities, not strangers, or just do without. Humans are not perfect, but decades is plenty of time to fail and recover multiple times. Look at Dave Ramsey, who, like too many of us, fell for the siren songs of the lenders and sellers, but is now doing quite well providing a useful radio program and associated publications and services. He is just one example, as IRS data shows that people move both up and down in income over time, rather than stay stagnant.

Blacks have shorter average live spans than people of European and Asian ancestry, yet do not receive higher payouts, so the system is rigged against them.

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 Post subject: Re: Beware Social Security Fraud
PostPosted: Feb Sun 11, 2018 7:57 pm 
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FStephenMasek wrote:
Fifties: Two wrongs don't make a right. Also, the Baby Boom means that the beneficiary-to-worker ratio will rise to 44 per 100 in 2030.

Just think how much better-off people, especially lower income people, would be if they had received the 12.4% SS tax as pay. That is a significant raise. I not only do not want their money, I want them to have it. Over several decades, especially if invested wisely, it amounts to enough to make a substantial improvement in their net worth when they retire or reduce their working hours.  

Rodney wrote:
Millions of old folks depend on social security just to live each week and month.
Really? Or is it just extra spending money? Around here, all I see is the extra spending money crowd, living in large 55+ communities such as Laguna Woods Village and Casta del Sol. One of the original "selling points" for SS apparently was that people who earned and invested prudently, but who lived far longer than usual could still run out of money. Of course, that would mean the beginning pay-out age would have to be something like 90 or 95.

Anyone, except those very few born without legs or such, who has lived in this land of opportunity and had decades to earn and invest and who has failed to do so should look to relatives or charities, not strangers, or just do without. Humans are not perfect, but decades is plenty of time to fail and recover multiple times. Look at Dave Ramsey, who, like too many of us, fell for the siren songs of the lenders and sellers, but is now doing quite well providing a useful radio program and associated publications and services. He is just one example, as IRS data shows that people move both up and down in income over time, rather than stay stagnant.

Blacks have shorter average live spans than people of European and Asian ancestry, yet do not receive higher payouts, so the system is rigged against them.

Ahh, Stephen 'ol boy, you are so far out of touch with the real world of most folks... :wink:

Your "two wrongs don't make a right" statement; Although you are apparently suggesting that FDR's legacy of SS W/H is a "wrong", regardless, it is U.S. Federal law, and something which we must be abide by. We have no choice in that, and the system guarantees that once we reach retirement status we can start collecting it back, at the government inflated rate.
Now you may choose not to receive your held money back, but I want mine back, regardless of whether I need it or not. It was my money they "confiscated", and I damn well want it returned.

Most working folks would have certainly enjoyed receiving the additional SS W/H from their paychecks, along with the employer's matching contribution at the time, but many of them would be in deep doo doo once they stopped working, W/O the SS income every month. That's just the reality of the way it is. Working stiffs raising a family, paying a home mortgage and all the other hands out for their $ generally will have precious little to invest, and even then, whatever they put their money into might not pan out in later years.
You can't equate most retiree's as on par with those living in your well-to-do surrounding neighborhoods. The average income for a wage slave in the country is somewhere around 37 thousand a year; hardly Laguna Niguel types.

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 Post subject: Re: Beware Social Security Fraud
PostPosted: Feb Sun 11, 2018 8:19 pm 
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Location: Annapolis, MD
I've been struggling trying to avoid staying out of this one......I have failed.

For starters, there is no doubt that there are large numbers of people who are---to some degree---dependent on programs such as S/S, Medicare, Medicaid, and more. Any claim that the average "man in the street" can somehow pull himself out of this dependence is patently absurd.
Lest I be misunderstood, I have great respect for the people that are successful enough to avoid dependence on any government program. However, these people are--and always will be--a minority.

There is no question that some government programs are facing some challenges in coming years. Too much detail on this point will surely get us in trouble with forum regulations........

Sticking to S/S:
1. it was created for valid reasons
2. it currently serves the needs of the majority, and therefor will not go away.
3. changes will be required as conditions change
These generic over-simplified statements apply to a very wide variety of issues facing the world community.

COOL--I just invented a new acronym: GOSS--Generic Over Simplified Statement----file with BFO---Blinding Flash of the Obvious

and now, back to the important stuff---eg does current go + to - or - to +?

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 Post subject: Re: Beware Social Security Fraud
PostPosted: Feb Sun 11, 2018 8:35 pm 
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Joined: Sep Tue 30, 2014 6:08 am
Posts: 3158
Location: The Old Dominion VA 23518
pixellany wrote:
These generic over-simplified statements apply to a very wide variety of issues facing the world community.

COOL--I just invented a new acronym: GOSS--Generic Over Simplified Statement----file with BFO---Blinding Flash of the Obvious

and now, back to the important stuff---eg does current go + to - or - to +?


Mark,

I saved this page to the Internet Wayback Machine - it'll help you with your USPTO Trademark filing for GOSS, and set the date for "first use"......

https://web.archive.org/web/20180211193 ... &p=2812504

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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"Capacitor Cosmetologist since 1979"
USN Retired 1984-2006 (Avionics/Cal)


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 Post subject: Re: Beware Social Security Fraud
PostPosted: Feb Sun 11, 2018 10:16 pm 
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Joined: Aug Tue 02, 2011 10:47 pm
Posts: 1726
Location: New York, NY
FStephenMasek wrote:
No functional difference between it and any other welfare program, as money is taken from strangers to give to the recipients. I do not want any money taken from strangers, and would not want it even if I was broke. I realize that I may be forced to sign-up for it, as they have tied it to Medicare, and I may be forced to sign-up for that.

You can not be forced to use Medicare. Every health service I've ever seen, doctors and hospitals, will allow you to pay cash for services.


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 Post subject: Re: Beware Social Security Fraud
PostPosted: Feb Sun 11, 2018 11:40 pm 
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Joined: May Tue 30, 2006 7:28 am
Posts: 4586
Location: Southern Ga. zip 31768 US
I agree oh Stephen you are so out of touch with a program that works, even if you take into account that problems exist everywhere.
I think you said you would never sign up for social security, but why not, take the money and donate it to the Antique Radio Forum which you seem to like very much, the owners or moderators could send out flowers to our dead members family when such a time happens, and it will happen. Or perhaps the money could be used to help keep up this form
Your donated Social security money would not go to waste.

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