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 Post subject: Wierd Tire Problem
PostPosted: Feb Tue 06, 2018 11:47 pm 
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Joined: Jun Sat 09, 2007 8:14 am
Posts: 3339
Location: Florida
I had a weird vibration problem that showed up after rotating tires. Before that the car rode as smooth as silk at all speeds. After rotating the tires the car would shake like crazy at 55 mph or over. I hadn't had the car over 45 for six months and it's 20 years old so I thought something had decided to let go. None of the usual checks (re-balancing, front end, CV joints, etc.) turned up anything. Since nothing else helped I rotated the tires back and all was well again (no shake up to 85).

There was no visible damage (no knots, bumps, strange tread wear, etc.) on either of the tires that didn't like being on the front. On a front wheel drive car the front tires have forces on them the rears don't. As near as I can figure this caused the belts to wiggle or something. This is obviously not a good thing so even though the suspect tires were happy on the rear, I bought a new set of tires.

You learn something every day.

RRM


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 Post subject: Re: Wierd Tire Problem
PostPosted: Feb Wed 07, 2018 12:49 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 9037
Location: 42001 KY
Test drove a car two weeks ago that had bad tires on it. it would jounce you no end form 55 up

Made the dealer put new tires on it ( used car)
if you wait too long to rotate this can happen as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Wierd Tire Problem
PostPosted: Feb Wed 07, 2018 1:00 am 
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Joined: Oct Thu 27, 2011 8:39 pm
Posts: 927
Location: Houston, texas
I had a 2004 Ford Focus and I have experienced tire vibration after rotation.
The most I got from the dealer is rotate the tires every 5000 miles or don't rotate at all.
I now have a 2015 Ford Transit Connect and I do NOT rotate the tires.
One reason is the tire monkeys may use a pneumatic nut driver to tighten the lug nuts and one time with the Focus I had a flat and I struggled to get the nuts off.


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 Post subject: Re: Wierd Tire Problem
PostPosted: Feb Wed 07, 2018 1:08 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 7852
Location: Litchfield Minnesota USA
Most likely your car is out of alignment. This would cause a tire to wear unevenly and in an accelerated instance the tire can be so out of round that it will cause shaking when it's not on the same wheel it was on before. Moreover, lets assume, since you didn't declare it, that your rear suspension also needs occasional alignment. If the tire went from one end to the other you might not have noticed it in the rear but you would in the front.

Also, you might have lost a balance weight and didn't notice it in the rear but will surely show up in the steering.

All that said, the tire casing could be starting to come apart. You can't see it yet but you sure can feel it on the front.
Go to your favorite tire dealer and have them check it out. Driving it the way it is can be dangerous if it were to disintegrate at 80 mph on the freeway.

And what was said just above this post about rotating tires, They tend to wear differently from front to rear, but unless something is wrong they don't wear from side to side. For that reason, I never rotate tires. Not ever. On a front wheel drive the fronts wear out sooner. I buy two replacement tires instead of four. On a rear wheel drive car the rear tires might wear out before the fronts, but it depends on alignment and how you drive.

Mark D.


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 Post subject: Re: Wierd Tire Problem
PostPosted: Feb Wed 07, 2018 1:35 am 
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Joined: Sep Tue 30, 2014 6:08 am
Posts: 2934
Location: The Old Dominion VA 23518
I just went through a similar situation on my Toyota - the front rims had been over-torqued by the state inspector, warping the OEM stamped steel rims (and possibly, the brake rotors) and the tires wore accordingly. When put on the rear when I rotated front-to-rear, nothing but shakes. Replaced the rear tires, and still, a slight shake. Took it back to the tire place only 45 minutes after the tires were replaced, and they verified the "co-planarity" of the two rims was way off. They even pulled a (good) front rim to show me first hand the difference. Lesson learned - always re-torque the lug nuts after the apes at the state inspection station over-torque the nuts and warp the rims. Luckily, the tire place had a set of OEM rims they GAVE me to solve my problems. They cleaned them up, remounted my new tires to those rims at no charge, and all was well.

Co-planarity is the center rim section being in the same plane/parallel to the outer rim/bead edges. Mine were off by about 3/16" of an inch. Nothing anyone could do to bring it back into co-planarity....

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 Post subject: Re: Wierd Tire Problem
PostPosted: Feb Wed 07, 2018 1:58 am 
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Joined: Jul Sun 21, 2013 12:21 am
Posts: 4974
Location: Vieques,PR 00765 USA
I took my wife's (old) car to replace the front tires. As I left the tire place it was immediately obvious that something was wrong and I turned around and went straight back. They checked everything and found it ok. They put the old tires back on and it drove fine!
Further investigation revealed it was way out of alignment and the old tires had "compensated" for that.

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 Post subject: Re: Wierd Tire Problem
PostPosted: Feb Wed 07, 2018 2:14 am 
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Joined: Jan Tue 31, 2012 1:55 am
Posts: 4730
Location: Mountains of Mourne. Ireland.
I've never had any trouble doing a front-to-back when fitting two new tires.
2004 focus ghia 74K
Currently running Dunlop BluResponse. Previously Dunlop Sp Sport FastResponse and before that,
Pirelli P4000's

Wheel alignment done every couple of years.

Greg.


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 Post subject: Re: Wierd Tire Problem
PostPosted: Feb Wed 07, 2018 2:19 am 
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Joined: Jun Sat 09, 2007 8:14 am
Posts: 3339
Location: Florida
Mark D wrote:
.........All that said, the tire casing could be starting to come apart. You can't see it yet but you sure can feel it on the front............Mark D.


That's what I think was happening. Everything else was checked out (with me watching). Since I can no longer deal with roadside fun I bought a new set.

RRM


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 Post subject: Re: Wierd Tire Problem
PostPosted: Feb Wed 07, 2018 5:40 am 
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Joined: Oct Thu 27, 2011 8:39 pm
Posts: 927
Location: Houston, texas
"""the front rims had been over-torqued by the state inspector, warping the OEM stamped steel rims (and possibly, the brake rotors) and the tires wore accordingly.""""


I never thought of that!


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 Post subject: Re: Wierd Tire Problem
PostPosted: Feb Wed 07, 2018 5:45 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 23037
Location: Haledon, NJ, usa
My 2008 front wheel drive Jeep Patriot has tires with directional arrows on them .
You can move the fronts to the back and backs to front... but they must stay on the same side of the car.
You cannot crisscross them.

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 Post subject: Re: Wierd Tire Problem
PostPosted: Feb Wed 07, 2018 5:48 am 
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Joined: Dec Tue 01, 2015 5:31 am
Posts: 1584
Location: Columbus Ohio
I don't rotate tires, then you only have to buy two later. On front wheel drive, the rears will stay better much longer.
If you rotate, you'll buy 8 tires vs. my 6.

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 Post subject: Re: Wierd Tire Problem
PostPosted: Feb Wed 07, 2018 5:56 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 11704
Location: North of Mpls, Minnesota
Pbpix wrote:
You can move the fronts to the back and backs to front... but they must stay on the same side of the car.
You cannot crisscross them.

This is the way all tires should be rotated.

Dave


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 Post subject: Re: Wierd Tire Problem
PostPosted: Feb Wed 07, 2018 6:23 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 23037
Location: Haledon, NJ, usa
easyrider8 wrote:
Pbpix wrote:
You can move the fronts to the back and backs to front... but they must stay on the same side of the car.
You cannot crisscross them.

This is the way all tires should be rotated.

Dave

Nowadays with directional tires ...due to tire belt construction and whatever else... yes.
But back in the 50s there was a 5 tire pattern that crisscrossed and included the spare.

Here's a whole bunch of info from Tire Rack
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech ... ?techid=43

Non-directional tires:
Image

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 Post subject: Re: Wierd Tire Problem
PostPosted: Feb Wed 07, 2018 6:38 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 11704
Location: North of Mpls, Minnesota
Hi Peter
I was well aware of the old methods of tire rotation, although I never agreed with them and always "H" my tires. I always figured if a tire rotated one direction it would take a set and should never be run in any other direction.

Dave


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 Post subject: Re: Wierd Tire Problem
PostPosted: Feb Wed 07, 2018 1:08 pm 
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Joined: Dec Fri 16, 2016 2:58 pm
Posts: 63
Tire Rotation was popular many years ago.
When i first started life as a mechanic, but its seldom done now.
If your going to rotate them, you need to do it before there is wear.
And do it regularly or yes it will wobble.
Personally i think its pointless.
The other issue is Tyres with good brand names use to be predictable!
But now its all made in you know where and its all Garbage
But people buy them ,because their battling a long in life .

Pete

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 Post subject: Re: Wierd Tire Problem
PostPosted: Feb Wed 07, 2018 5:39 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 7852
Location: Litchfield Minnesota USA
Can't rotate the tires on my wife's car. The tires are mono-directional AND the front tires are a different size from the rear tires. (rears are wider)
When she bought it, it had four Michelins, which are not OEM and which if very low regard for. The rears wore down the most. Tires for that thing are $$$$, so we replaced just the two rears last summer. We were just about to replace the front ones with new Goodyear's which it would have had from the factory when she hit that deer I mentioned last December on this forum. Now we're waiting to get the car back from the body shop, but unfortunately we also have $2000 deductible on the comprehensive portion of the insurance. That means that we still won't have the money to replace those nasty and nearly bald Michelin's.

Nevertheless, the tires aren't rotatable.

Mark D.


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 Post subject: Re: Wierd Tire Problem
PostPosted: Feb Wed 07, 2018 5:51 pm 
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Joined: Jan Mon 04, 2010 2:52 am
Posts: 2513
I experienced something similar with a 1964 Chevy Biscayne that my father owned. What happened was that my father purchased a set of cheap economy tires from a Sears Auto Center, and one or two of the front tires had a flat spot. Whenever I approached 70 mph, the car would start to vibrate.


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 Post subject: Re: Wierd Tire Problem
PostPosted: Feb Wed 07, 2018 5:53 pm 
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Joined: Feb Thu 08, 2007 2:32 pm
Posts: 11735
Location: 06457
I buy a new Ford Focus every 3 years and just do what the manufacturer suggests in the manual. Whatever the car gives me for tire wear is fine by me. Have 60,000 mile full coverage and a $500.00 deductible on collision and free roadside service. Seems to work..


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 Post subject: Re: Wierd Tire Problem
PostPosted: Feb Wed 07, 2018 6:34 pm 
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Joined: Jan Tue 31, 2012 1:55 am
Posts: 4730
Location: Mountains of Mourne. Ireland.
Just for fun... :)

Ask your tire-fitter if he knows what the red and yellow dots on the sidewall mean.
Lot's of them don't know... :shock:

Greg.


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 Post subject: Re: Wierd Tire Problem
PostPosted: Feb Wed 07, 2018 8:54 pm 
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Joined: Mar Wed 16, 2011 10:44 pm
Posts: 747
Location: Peekskill, NY
Red dot on motorbike tires is the light spot as determined by the manufacturer. Most
times this should be near the valve stem.

Never seen a yellow dot.


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