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 Post subject: Anyone have access to genuine Ford dealer parts catalogs?
PostPosted: Mar Sun 04, 2018 10:46 pm 
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Location: Detroit, MI USA
Trying to verify a couple of things that seem to be in error at the aftermarket parts stores in years 2001-2004.

The local Ford dealers will no longer give out part information over the phone or at the counter, unless you want to order from them. They say that company policy currently forbids that because people use the numbers to buy parts off eBay and they lose money and time doing research. That's fine, I won't be buying anything from them that I don't absolutely have to, since I thought their business was to assist customers who owned their vehicles and you can nearly always find genuine OEM Ford parts cheaper elsewhere, sometimes for half what the dealer wants if you know where to shop.

I need to know the correct sizes for a couple of serpentine belts and the diameter of the alternator pulleys.

First one is a Mercury Grand Marquis 2001. Aftermarket lists say it needs a 5090915 belt, which should be 91.5" ID but that's apparently too big as it slips as soon as it starts raining outside or if you drive through a puddle. The alternator on this car was replaced by me a few years ago, and I never paid attention to a possibly different pulley diameter from the original one. The supposedly correct Gates 5090915 is not right for this combination of vehicle and alternator and I didn't keep the old one for comparison.

Second one is a Ford Crown Victoria 2004 police interceptor, which has a different alternator than regular passenger cars. That is shown in aftermarket catalogs as all 2004's take a 5090910 belt, which should be 91" ID, but if you lay this belt together inside the one from the Mercury this one looks like it's more like 88" or 89" ID, no way is it 91" if the other one is 91.5". There are no markings on it now, and it couldn't possibly be original. IIRC it looked like it had a fairly new Motorcraft belt on it when we got the vehicle almost 10 years ago. I'm pretty sure the police version has to have a different belt than the civilian Crown Vics but that's not shown in aftermarket catalogs.

The Crown Vic belt (whatever size it actually is) works on the Mercury and doesn't ever slip but is obviously too short because even with the belt tensioner fully released I can barely get it around all the pulleys. All I want to know is what size belt to put on the Mercury so it won't slip in damp weather. I expect there will be differences in the Ford dealer parts catalogs that aren't in aftermarket catalogs.

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Dennis

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone have access to genuine Ford dealer parts catalogs
PostPosted: Mar Sun 04, 2018 11:22 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 4347
Location: Charleston, W.Va.
Hi Dennis,
I can't answer your specific questions, but can offer the following:

There are federal laws which require auto manufacturers to make certain information available to owners of their products. Including the requirement to offer complete shop manuals, as well as OEM parts, available for purchase for a certain period of time after manufacture of the vehicle. You can do some online research on this yourself, and might start by looking at the following: https://www.sema.org/federal-regulation ... rket-parts

In regard to purchase of specific parts, I have generally found local NAPA stores to be the most knowledgeable, often more so than dealer's parts departments themselves. But when I speak of NAPA, I mean a one-on-one contact in person over the sales counter, not via online contacts or telephone calls.

My son is a certified mechanic at a local Ford dealership with almost 20 years of experience. When I next talk to him I will ask him about their particular policy in this regard, and will report back to you on what he says.

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Poston


Last edited by Poston Drake on Mar Sun 04, 2018 11:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone have access to genuine Ford dealer parts catalogs
PostPosted: Mar Sun 04, 2018 11:27 pm 
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Joined: Apr Mon 09, 2012 2:55 am
Posts: 2437
Location: Lakewood,SoCal- 90713
Hey Dennis, looked this up on line:

https://www.oemfordpart.com/auto-parts/ ... lleys-scat

https://www.oemfordpart.com/auto-parts/ ... lleys-scat

Ford website:
https://www.oemfordpart.com/

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone have access to genuine Ford dealer parts catalogs
PostPosted: Mar Sun 04, 2018 11:45 pm 
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Location: Detroit, MI USA
doug-5er wrote:


Thank you, now how do we find out the diameter of those belts to see if the cross indexes are right or wrong?

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Dennis

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone have access to genuine Ford dealer parts catalogs
PostPosted: Mar Mon 05, 2018 12:46 am 
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Joined: Apr Mon 09, 2012 2:55 am
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Location: Lakewood,SoCal- 90713
Dennis, now that you have the OEM part numbers could you not call the Ford dealer and get a size?
I would give them some story about buying a OEM belt and won't fit correctly,and see if they tell you a size. It's not a lie just a little white one :)

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Doug


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone have access to genuine Ford dealer parts catalogs
PostPosted: Mar Mon 05, 2018 1:09 am 
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Location: Del Valle, TX 78617
If your new serpentine belt slips when wet you need to clean the mold release wax from the belt and clean any wax from the pulleys. I use 91% IPA. If there is less than 30% wrap on the alternator pulley you may have to remove it and sand blast the shiny glaze on it. Sand or glass bead blasting helps prevent that early morning squeal when the belt and pulley are wet with dew and the alternator is trying to top off the battery after starting.

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Last edited by oldgazelle on Mar Mon 05, 2018 1:53 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone have access to genuine Ford dealer parts catalogs
PostPosted: Mar Mon 05, 2018 1:10 am 
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Joined: Sep Mon 16, 2013 2:42 am
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Location: Tucson, Arizona U.S.A.
Are there belt measuring tools for this type of belt? I have one for 1/2" V belts (which won't help you at all) that came from my dad's hardware store. I can easily determine the size of any unmarked or proprietary marked 1/2" V belt.

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone have access to genuine Ford dealer parts catalogs
PostPosted: Mar Mon 05, 2018 1:32 am 
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Location: Northern Panhandle, WV
Dennis,
Appears those numbers cross to the numbers you already have:
http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php ... 65&jsn=421
http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php ... 97&jsn=406

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone have access to genuine Ford dealer parts catalogs
PostPosted: Mar Mon 05, 2018 2:53 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 502
Location: Effingham, IL
Can't you take belt Off The Merc and take it to Napa or Auto Zone or a discount parts store and have them find a serpentine belt that's slightly shorter? I would think the belt tensioner would self adjust OK unless the spring is weak. Sometimes a squeaky belt gets noisy because of a glaze that develops . A spray belt dressing helps but is not too permanent. The old V-belts used to be a lot more problematic but newer belts on multiple grove pulleys seem to have solved that problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone have access to genuine Ford dealer parts catalogs
PostPosted: Mar Mon 05, 2018 3:16 am 
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Location: Detroit, MI USA
The belt tensioner seems to work well, it has lots of push against the belt and moves freely. It's moisture in the air that makes it slip. On a dry day, it works but as soon as it starts raining the belt squeals as soon as you start the car without even driving it. If you drive when it's raining it quickly loses enough grip that the alternator stops charging as evidenced by the voltage gauge dropping quite a bit. I'm beginning to think that the replacement Gates belt is junk, and possibly mismarked, as it only seemed to work the way it should have for a month or two after installing it.

When we get a decent day, I plan to hit the dollar junkyard which is only a few miles from home and usually has a few of those cars in it, to compare belt lengths and markings on the belts. In the meantime I might try to see if one of the local auto parts stores is willing to find a belt in between the lengths of the two I have now. Since we don't drive the '04 Crown Vic in the winter months (don't want it to rust), I'll temporarily leave that belt on the Mercury, I drove it about 20 miles this evening and no squeals or other issues with the much shorter belt on it.

And I will also see if I can find out exactly how you are supposed to measure the size of a serpentine belt. Don't think any of the old V-belt sizers will open up far enough to measure a serpentine belt.

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Dennis

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone have access to genuine Ford dealer parts catalogs
PostPosted: Mar Mon 05, 2018 4:33 am 
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Location: Effingham, IL
Sounds like a good plan. I have threaded a heavy cord or string around pulleys , marked it and then measured it for size. It gets you in ballpark . Old v-belts had length in part number but don't know about serpentine. Good luck.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone have access to genuine Ford dealer parts catalogs
PostPosted: Mar Mon 05, 2018 4:37 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 3129
Location: Northern Panhandle, WV
Here's a slightly longer belt listed for a 2004 PI:
http://www.daycoproducts.com/part?categ ... %3D5060923

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone have access to genuine Ford dealer parts catalogs
PostPosted: Mar Mon 05, 2018 4:39 am 
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Location: Detroit, MI USA
I believe the last 3 digits in the serpentine belt numbers are the length in inches, minus the decimal point. 910= 91" 915=91.5" and so on. However, that length doesn't seem to be etched in stone as I read on one website the actual length can be + or - as much as an inch from the specs. And that's where I think the problem is. They are calling a part a replacement for one that might have OEM spec of one number, but their replacement subs the next larger "standard" size with an added tolerance up to + 1" that the OEM part didn't have.

That's why I was trying to find out exactly what the OEM length spec on those belts was. Only way to find out is find a vehicle that still has the OEM part on it, unlikely at this late date, since it doesn't show up in the description of the genuine Ford replacement part.

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Dennis

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone have access to genuine Ford dealer parts catalogs
PostPosted: Mar Mon 05, 2018 4:42 am 
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Location: Detroit, MI USA
cwtravis wrote:
Here's a slightly longer belt listed for a 2004 PI:
http://www.daycoproducts.com/part?categ ... %3D5060923



Yes, our 2009 police interceptor has that one on it, 923= 92.3" and it's definitely too long to use on either one of the older vehicles. One of the pulleys on the newer vehicles (2006-up) is larger than the older ones.

Interesting that one comes up for a 2004 in some catalogs, as that year appears to nearly always need a shorter belt (910= 91"), but there must have been some variation of a 2004 that took the longer one and some that were even shorter, less than 90". Not nearly enough of the variations are documented and that's where the problems come in. A fleet buyer could have specified a different alternator output or something else that changed the size of a pulley in the drive system, thereby requiring those vehicles to have a different belt as well. I'm used to seeing those undocumented differences on the police interceptors, but would have thought that the 2001 Mercury didn't have such differences. Apparently they did as well.

I think I need something about 90.5" but unsure of the exact size that the 2001 OEM belt was.

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Dennis

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone have access to genuine Ford dealer parts catalogs
PostPosted: Mar Mon 05, 2018 4:51 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
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Location: Northern Panhandle, WV
You might try the VIN lookup on this page:
http://www.daycoproducts.com/automotive
I tried the license plate number lookup for our car and it identified it correctly. Scary.

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone have access to genuine Ford dealer parts catalogs
PostPosted: Mar Mon 05, 2018 4:55 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 26965
Location: Detroit, MI USA
Yes, I tried that as well. Very scary. You can use either the VIN or license plate number.

I'm going to make some phone calls in the next couple of days and see if I can get to someone who knows what the OEM part is supposed to measure. All my engineer friends have long since retired from Ford, so I don't have a direct line any longer.

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Dennis

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone have access to genuine Ford dealer parts catalogs
PostPosted: Mar Tue 06, 2018 12:44 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 8087
Location: Litchfield Minnesota USA
The car dealerships I've been buying parts from are now generally using the VIN for any part you order. Reason is they have fewer comebacks because there might be two or more variations. Don't be afraid to give them the VIN. License plate tells them nothing.
Mark D.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone have access to genuine Ford dealer parts catalogs
PostPosted: Mar Tue 06, 2018 3:40 am 
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Joined: Aug Sat 16, 2014 2:19 am
Posts: 1180
Location: Palos Verdes, CA
Have you tried using fordparts.com:

https://parts.ford.com/en.html

As for removing the belt and taking it to your local auto parts store, I did this with the belt on my old Montgomery Wards washing machine and did find one that fit and it only cost $5.99!


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone have access to genuine Ford dealer parts catalogs
PostPosted: Mar Tue 06, 2018 3:41 am 
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Location: 649 Lacy Wilkerson Rd Roxboro, NC 27574
NAPA catalog says 25060908. You might want to replace the belt tensioner anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone have access to genuine Ford dealer parts catalogs
PostPosted: Mar Tue 06, 2018 4:12 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 8087
Location: Litchfield Minnesota USA
Good thinking on replacing the tensioner anyway. Those bearings don't get lubricated except when they were assembled at the factory. Same thing if there is an idler pulley involved. Neither of those items last forever and when they go, they GO and you are stuck if your water pump is also driven by the belt that breaks. One can get by without power steering or the alternator for a short term, but not the water pump.
Mark D.


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