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 Post subject: CE Side Band Slicer
PostPosted: Apr Mon 16, 2018 5:28 pm 
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Joined: Sep Sat 26, 2015 8:30 pm
Posts: 47
Hello Everyone,

I was watching a couple of you tube video's on the Central Communication's Model A Side Band Slicer. It appears to be a very impressive device. Does anyone know where I can find a good description of how this device works and how to hook it up etc ?

Thank you,

Bill
KI7ZAD


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 Post subject: Re: CE Side Band Slicer
PostPosted: Apr Mon 16, 2018 11:40 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 3021
Location: Seattle WA US
Bill- Here are some references on the "phasing method" of sideband generation and reception:

Sideband Slicer instruction manual, Central Electronics
Selecctivity in SSSC reception, QST April 1948
A Detector forSingle-Sideband Reception, QST June 1948
Practical Single- Sideband Reception, QST July 1948
Chapter 4 of New Single Sideband Handbook, Donald Stoner, Cowan Publishing, 1958
Signal Slicer, GE Ham News, Vol 6 Nr 4, July 1951

The QST articles available from ARRL website. Stoner's handbook can be found at hamfests, or try your favorite online used book stores. GE ham news available for download at http://n4trb.com/AmateurRadio/GE_HamNew ... m_news.htm
PM me your email address, if you have trouble finding any of these references.

Its interesting to see what QST looked like, back when it was a respected technical magazine....

73,
Chuck K7MCG


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 Post subject: Re: CE Side Band Slicer
PostPosted: Apr Mon 16, 2018 11:55 pm 
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Hey, K7! Stop badmouthing QST. I just got my latest issue today, and it is full of all kinds of interesting information I cannot use!


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 Post subject: Re: CE Side Band Slicer
PostPosted: Apr Tue 17, 2018 12:16 am 
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Joined: Sep Sat 26, 2015 8:30 pm
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Thanks Chuck - I appreciate that. All this info will certainly keep me busy.

73'S

Bill


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 Post subject: Re: CE Side Band Slicer
PostPosted: Apr Tue 17, 2018 2:26 am 
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Bill,

It is a useful device that works really well. The model B is even better because it has a Q multiplier built into it. CE also sold a couple of accessory "boxes" for them, one was designed to provide a buffer stage to make it easier to connect to certain receivers without loading down a receiver circuit and the other was a mixer stage that allowed using the Slicer with IF frequencies far removed from 455 khz.

The Slicer can be set up to work with IF frequencies up to at least 500 Khz. because I use one with a R-388 receiver. The RME 4301 is another phasing type SSB detector similar to the Slicer and it was designed to match RME's 4300 and 4350 receivers although it can also be used with any receiver with an IF in the 455 khz. range.

When I got my novice license in 1974 one of the local hams was still using a HQ-140X with a Slicer and a CE-20A transmitter as his primary station.

Rodger WQ9E


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 Post subject: Re: CE Side Band Slicer
PostPosted: Apr Tue 17, 2018 10:14 am 
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I never understood the term "slicer" - having read the link to GE Ham News it seems to have preceded "band pass filter". I guess narrow crystal filter were extremely expensive in those days.

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 Post subject: Re: CE Side Band Slicer
PostPosted: Apr Tue 17, 2018 11:32 am 
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Martin,

I think it probably referred to slicing off one sideband or one half of the receiver's normal response curve.

In the area we have Looney's tax service which also struck me as a poor choice for a business name. When I was much younger there was a restaurant in the Great Smoky mountains area named the S & M restaurant which would lead you to believe it could be a painful dining experience. I suspect some "sophisticated" out of town types were disappointed when they found the restaurant's service offerings were limited only to the usual food and beverages :)

Rodger WQ9E


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 Post subject: Re: CE Side Band Slicer
PostPosted: Apr Tue 17, 2018 11:45 am 
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Quote:
Stoner's handbook


This is a great book if you are interested in early SSB equipment - there are several on ebay at the moment.
Was very helpful to me when I was working on my CE 20a.

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 Post subject: Re: CE Side Band Slicer
PostPosted: Apr Tue 17, 2018 1:55 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
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Location: Limington, Me
I have one I bought years ago and never used. Anyone interested? Free for shipping.

73, Roger


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 Post subject: Re: CE Side Band Slicer
PostPosted: Apr Tue 17, 2018 3:00 pm 
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Did it work when you got it?

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 Post subject: Re: CE Side Band Slicer
PostPosted: Apr Tue 17, 2018 3:13 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 271
Location: Limington, Me
I don't know as I've never hooked it up. It appears to be unmolested.

Roger


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 Post subject: Re: CE Side Band Slicer
PostPosted: Apr Tue 17, 2018 3:17 pm 
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Roger, I'd be interested in it. How much do you want for it and is it a "B" model ?

Thanks,

Bill


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 Post subject: Re: CE Side Band Slicer
PostPosted: Apr Tue 17, 2018 3:23 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 271
Location: Limington, Me
It's the A model. Just pay shipping.

Roger


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 Post subject: Re: CE Side Band Slicer
PostPosted: Apr Tue 17, 2018 3:43 pm 
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Joined: Sep Sat 26, 2015 8:30 pm
Posts: 47
Please let me know how much the shipping is and how you would like to get paid. I could mail you a postal money order if you'd like.

My mailing address is;

Bill Zadel
480 E. 125 S.
P.O. Box 1817
Parowan, Ut 84761

Do you have the manual for it ?


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 Post subject: Re: CE Side Band Slicer
PostPosted: Apr Tue 17, 2018 4:24 pm 
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Joined: Jun Sun 15, 2014 5:37 pm
Posts: 63
majoco wrote:
I never understood the term "slicer" - having read the link to GE Ham News it seems to have preceded "band pass filter". I guess narrow crystal filter were extremely expensive in those days.


This was the late forties/early fifties.

"Crystal filter" meant a single crystal, with the phasing capacitor. Great for CW, less for voice. Collins did start making mechanical filters around that time, but they were expensive. Better crystal filters came later.

More important, SSB came along, and people wanted to use their existing receivers. Not only did they lack a good SSB filter, but they didn't have a product detector. You could use them for SSB, but the BFO was too weak, which meant "turn off AGC, turn on BFO, turn down RF gain and turn up audio gain". Ot worked, but it had limitations.

A sideband slicer (and I've seen the term applied to units with mechanical filters) provided the product detector and better selectivity, with little modification to the receiver. Since they generally used the phasing method
they were "cheap", resistors and capacitors being cheaper than crystal or mechanical filters. The receiver operated more like dedicated SSB receivers that came later. Not only narrower selectivity, but really easy selectable sideband. At the time, it was a good thing.

We see the same thing today, lots of portable shortwave receivers with synchronous detectors. Those generally are "sideband slicers". Get narrower selectivity for SSB, without the cost of another filter, but since it can lock to the incoming signal, it works on AM too. So I can still listen to WBZ 1030KHz in Boston, despite a local transmitting on 1040KHz. I just use the "slicer" to select lower sideband, which is less bothered by the local station.

Sideband slicers were there frequency short time, when they were very useful. Better receivers made them obsolete.

Michael


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 Post subject: Re: CE Side Band Slicer
PostPosted: Apr Tue 17, 2018 5:05 pm 
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Joined: Sep Sat 26, 2015 8:30 pm
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Thanks for the info Michael. Good Stuff !! I appreciate it.

Bill


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 Post subject: Re: CE Side Band Slicer
PostPosted: Apr Tue 17, 2018 9:30 pm 
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Location: Ashhurst, New Zealand
Quote:
"turn off AGC, turn on BFO, turn down RF gain and turn up audio gain"


Standard procedure when I was marine operator back in the 60's - one hand to write, one hand to ride the RF gain! CW, not SSB.

I have a more modern marine receiver, a Debeg (Siemens) 7313 that has permanent synchronous detection for AM and it works a treat - never had it drop out on the weakest of signals and no heterodyning from adjacent carriers. The recovered carrier is replaced by the BFO for SSB and of course a narrower filter.

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 Post subject: Re: CE Side Band Slicer
PostPosted: Apr Fri 20, 2018 3:21 pm 
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The Slicers work amazing well, considering what they are.

The biggest problem is they are placed AFTER the last IF stage! This means the IF and AGC and are subject to strong signals on that occur on the suppressed sideband side of the passband. You may have to turn off the AGC and run the RF gain manually to avoid AGC being controlled by strong stations you are not listening too.

Manuals should be on Bama. I have both versions of the Slicer. I'd suggest building a small 455kHz buffer stage and using it, unless the accessory item is included on the Slicer.


Pete

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