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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 6S229 Speaker / Coil Problem
PostPosted: Jun Wed 27, 2012 2:49 am 
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Replaced C4 a second time. No resistance to ground. All voltages are really good until I hook up that R3 to B+. ???????????


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 6S229 Speaker / Coil Problem
PostPosted: Jun Wed 27, 2012 3:31 am 
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Remove the 6A8 and 6K7.
Then reconnect R3 and plug in those two tubes one at a time to see if its just one stage that is causing the voltage to drop.

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 6S229 Speaker / Coil Problem
PostPosted: Jun Wed 27, 2012 4:34 am 
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OK Paul. Will do. But have to get to bed. Will do tomorrow.

Thanks and hope you feel better
Greg


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 6S229 Speaker / Coil Problem
PostPosted: Jun Wed 27, 2012 5:49 am 
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Hi Greg,
I've been watching this thread, and didn't desert you. But I see the other have had ideas I didn't.
I hope, no, I know you will get this resolved. When you do I think it will be something that is so obvious you will say 'how did I miss that?"
If I think of anything else, I'll post, otherwise I'll stand back and watch.
Good luck!

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 6S229 Speaker / Coil Problem
PostPosted: Jun Wed 27, 2012 12:36 pm 
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Gary,

I respect your ideas as much as anybody elses on this forum. I would appreciate anything you can add. I value all of you guys' ideas and think that this forum is a really great thing for me. I don't know where else I could go to have this kind of information pool. I know I'm leaving someone out, and apologize for that, but I am thankful for all ideas that you guys can offer.

I'm not home now, but will be this afternoon to try 1 of Paul's ideas. I had to get to bed last night so I could get up this morning.

Sincerely,
Greg


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 6S229 Speaker / Coil Problem
PostPosted: Jun Wed 27, 2012 5:32 pm 
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GJENGINGER wrote:
Replaced C4 a second time. No resistance to ground. All voltages are really good until I hook up that R3 to B+. ???????????


Greg,
Just so I am clear, are you measuring an Open (ie infinite resistance) to ground or low/no resistance (ie short) to ground?

You should be measuring an open/infinite at this point.

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 6S229 Speaker / Coil Problem
PostPosted: Jun Wed 27, 2012 6:02 pm 
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Oh yeah, Paul I see what you mean. Not so clear is it. I am reading infinite resistance. I'm getting reading to do what you ask last night.


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 6S229 Speaker / Coil Problem
PostPosted: Jun Wed 27, 2012 7:18 pm 
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Paul,

Took both tubes out, and it does the same thing without either tube being in.


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 6S229 Speaker / Coil Problem
PostPosted: Jun Wed 27, 2012 7:31 pm 
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So, I am hearing you say that with R3 reconnected and 6A8 and 6K7 out, then B+ voltage drops?

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 6S229 Speaker / Coil Problem
PostPosted: Jun Wed 27, 2012 8:45 pm 
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Yes


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 6S229 Speaker / Coil Problem
PostPosted: Jun Wed 27, 2012 9:59 pm 
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If you haven't checked it already, detail check all the wiring between R3, C4, and the connecting wiring to the tube sockets for 6K7 AND 6A8.

Look for any solder bridges or loose strands that might be connecting this grid bias wiring to other pins on the tube sockets. Something appears to be connected where it doesn't belong. Refer to the schematic, and let me know if you have any questions about the tube pin numbers. I don't think the tube pins are ID'd on the schematic.

Edit - Should be wired to pin 4 of both tubes.

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 6S229 Speaker / Coil Problem
PostPosted: Jun Wed 27, 2012 11:12 pm 
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What is edit?

I will check and let you know. My Internet was down for awhile this afternoon. That's why I'm late with this response. It will be awhile for me to check wiring thoroughly.


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 6S229 Speaker / Coil Problem
PostPosted: Jun Wed 27, 2012 11:22 pm 
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The edit was me just adding the pin numbers on the two sockets where bias wiring should be connected... in case you did not know.

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 6S229 Speaker / Coil Problem
PostPosted: Jun Thu 28, 2012 1:52 pm 
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Well Paul, Gary, and others listening, Good Morning. Spent almost all night tracing wires, cutting circuits out of the 6A8 and 6K7 portion of the radio, and once again, found nothing. I even replaced the 33K resistor, just in the event that it could be failing under load. Still same results. Is there anything else left? Could anything over in the band switch circuitry be causing this? Just for your info, ALL of the caps have been replaced, except for the micas. The electrolytics twice. And of course, the candohm. And all resistors checked. All tubes have been replaced.


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 6S229 Speaker / Coil Problem
PostPosted: Jun Thu 28, 2012 2:36 pm 
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phlogiston wrote:
You know, my digital Fluke VOM will measure MA at 400V. I have done it. I don't know if this is a great idea with all VOMs. But, you could break the B+ circuit after the field coil and actually measure the current consumption, with and without the tubes. Check the ratings on your VOM first.



You are going to have to take this measurement sooner or later.

If your VOM is not capable of MA measurements at high voltage you could install a resistor as a shunt and take measurements around it. This is how the old analog meters used to work anyway. Some math will be required.

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 6S229 Speaker / Coil Problem
PostPosted: Jun Thu 28, 2012 3:46 pm 
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Yeah, phlogiston, (I don't know what else to call you), I wanted to talk to you about this. Don't quite understand, but that's probably me, not the way you're saying it.

Anyhow, I found this missing, believe it or not. The R2 resistor, 10K, that connects the junction of R11 and R3 and the B+ together, IS NOT THERE. Please let me know if this could somehow cause this problem.

Greg


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 6S229 Speaker / Coil Problem
PostPosted: Jun Thu 28, 2012 5:01 pm 
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Greg,
This could be a problem, but more importantly, wiring errors or missing components anywhere in the set are a real wild card in trying to troubleshoot a radio like this.

When we make suggestions for you to try, it is based on the assumption that your set is wired the same as the diagram we are looking at. Not casting fault at you in any way. Just pointing out the difficulty in helping you solve this issue.

I think you are right to review the the wiring and do your best to ensure it matches the schematic.

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 6S229 Speaker / Coil Problem
PostPosted: Jun Thu 28, 2012 9:14 pm 
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GJENGINGER wrote:
Yeah, phlogiston, (I don't know what else to call you), I wanted to talk to you about this. Don't quite understand, but that's probably me, not the way you're saying it.

Anyhow, I found this missing, believe it or not. The R2 resistor, 10K, that connects the junction of R11 and R3 and the B+ together, IS NOT THERE. Please let me know if this could somehow cause this problem.

Greg



Russ

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 6S229 Speaker / Coil Problem
PostPosted: Jun Fri 29, 2012 2:15 am 
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Well Paul, I'm sorry. But I'm just as frustrated as you are. I had no idea that this could have been missing. You ask me to check the schematic, trace the circuitry I think you said, and I did just that. I really didn't think something like this should be not there. I am assuming the radio played at sometime in the past.

Sincerely,
Greg


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 6S229 Speaker / Coil Problem
PostPosted: Jun Fri 29, 2012 2:44 am 
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No apology required, Greg.
I think we have all had a problem child like this on our benches before.
Hang tough, and be patient. You will get it to play again. Some times it helps to take a break from it a while and take another look when you have a fresh perspective.

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