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 Post subject: New Zealand 1937 'Rolls' Model BBR Restoration - Cabinet
PostPosted: Feb Fri 16, 2018 9:27 am 
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Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Well, this is the second part of the restoration. I fully rebuilt this from the ground up as it was very rusty and a bit of a mess. Definitely overkill for a basic 5-valve BC only set but I think I'd been too long without doing one and this was the one on the floor I was tripping over every day. I like how it looks too, which helped. I really like the way the grill wraps up over the top and the big oval dial.

The electrical restore is here: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=334901 and isn't fully complete yet since the dial still needs finishing and I might put a bluetooth module in yet... we'll see.

Here is the cabinet as it sat before pulling the chassis... I'll start cleaning it down tomorrow but have just removed it from the freezer where its been for 2 weeks while I was working on the chassis (to kill off any borer that may have been resident).

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At this stage the plan is to replace the grill cloth, because its ripped and besides its contact-glued in and unlikely to come out in one piece (although I will try, just in case), strip the cabinet, tone, seal and lacquer it with a little airbrushing of the grill bars... I'm no expert at this and will be using a compressor and spray gun for the first time as well (been using a combo of spray cans and a Preval setup for the last few which was ok, but far from perfect - and quite expensive)... so it should be good for learning and a laugh :)

Cheers

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: New Zealand 1937 'Rolls' Model BBR Restoration - Cabinet
PostPosted: Feb Sun 18, 2018 1:51 pm 
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Hi,
The wattyl nitro is tack free faster than others, they sell it under the name style wood now , but throw the instructions in the bin! They had to cut the thinner down on paper to get it passed the new pollution laws so just thin it down by testing, not by the instructions.
I mostly use a 1.4 nozzle with it and its fine.
You can only buy it in 4lt lots now .
Pete

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 Post subject: Re: New Zealand 1937 'Rolls' Model BBR Restoration - Cabinet
PostPosted: Feb Sun 18, 2018 2:22 pm 
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Steve, if you have never sprayed you need to set the gun up.
Easy way!
Get some brown cardboard , squirt the gun at the cardboard.
Look at the wet patch , you want a cigar shape pattern with the atomizing thin and even on the edges of the cigar shape.
Best if the cigar is as wide as an open hand from thumb too pinky!
And you want the Fan knob and volume fluid knob open as much as you can.
Ohhhh you will have lots of fun with this project and spraying , much more control.

Pete

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 Post subject: Re: New Zealand 1937 'Rolls' Model BBR Restoration - Cabinet
PostPosted: Feb Sun 18, 2018 11:42 pm 
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Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Thanks Pete! I'm going to need some advice in getting it right but I'll start with trying to get that pattern from the gun. The stylwood product isn't available in NZ through the regular channels (Bunnings / Mitre 10) I don't believe? Although I think there is a wood turner at the other end of the country who sells it... I'll look into that. I've been using NC lacquer and thinner from SprayStore who supply the automotive sector - I don't recall the brand (or if it is even branded at all).

No progress this weekend, I built a new service bench instead :) If nothing else I was able to use up a tin of polyurethane I've had sitting around for ages but no longer use on cabinets :)
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Cheers

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: New Zealand 1937 'Rolls' Model BBR Restoration - Cabinet
PostPosted: Feb Mon 19, 2018 6:15 am 
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No bunnings dont sell it! Commercial coatings places do though or music buffs
Beware of wording , particularly in the auto outlets,
Lacquer acrylic is not nitro. its called lacquer but it is thinned and based with acrylic thinnners .
Nitrocellulose lacquer is thinned with lacquer thinners.
Young guys will not know what your talking about,because down here in nz or oz its not been used for years. Much more common in the states.
Anyway have fun with it ! Thats all it matters,
Pete

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 Post subject: Re: New Zealand 1937 'Rolls' Model BBR Restoration - Cabinet
PostPosted: Feb Sat 24, 2018 6:27 am 
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Thanks Pete - I'm assured the stuff I'm using from SprayStore is nitrocellulose - I've been thinning it with lacquer thinners... it seems to work - but I'll definitely trial some Stylwood if I can get it locally.

Finally made some progress on the set this weekend - although my phone was flat so there are no between photos.

Started with this
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And managed to remove the grill cloth in one piece, but its beyond saving. I'll be replacing this with some other vintage cloth I have
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I scraped the bulk of the old lacquer off then cleaned the rest off with acetone.

Once cleaned I trialed some pseudo-grain-filler using a pine-toned oil-based putty mixed in with mineral turps and wiped on... was an almighty pain in the ass and even though I put some dark stain in it I still ended up looking very light - and making the whole thing look pretty hideous.
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I wish I had a photo of it after I sanded it back, but I really thought I was going to have to start again and somehow try to get the filler out again. I tried a couple of things, including wiping some thinned black oil-based paint over it which did help a little - but unfortunately I'd already put a layer of shellac down, sealing it... so nothing really worked.

I'll get some Timbermate and try that I think... others here seem to have had quite good luck with it - I assume I should start with the right tone rather than trying to tone it while watering it down?

So, at this point I decided I was going to have to make the finish a bit darker than I had planned - and so this was the result. I used a black spray on the back, edges and feet and then used a brown-toned lacquer over everything.
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The only problem I have (which might not be a problem at all - I'm not sure) is that the finish appears to be 'wrinkled'. Is it supposed to finish flat? Is there likely something causing this? It seems to happen on every cabinet I've done and I kind of hoped switching to a proper gun might fix it... but it still looks the same - although it took about 1/4 of the time to do the job and was much easier to get an even coverage. I do love my new spray gun :)
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So thats it for the moment. I'll give it a day or two, give it a light sand, and then give it a top coat. It needs to be done to take to 'show-and-tell' at my local vintage radio group on Thursday :) On the bright side its still the tail-end of summer here and a nice warm day today - I got sunburned working on it!

Cheers

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: New Zealand 1937 'Rolls' Model BBR Restoration - Cabinet
PostPosted: Feb Sat 24, 2018 7:29 am 
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I have two darker grill cloth options where I have enough to do the job
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I'm inclined to go with the first option... anyone disagree? Orientation of the cloth? I like it this way.

The dial is also quite dark, so I'd prefer to not use a lighter cloth on this one.

Cheers

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: New Zealand 1937 'Rolls' Model BBR Restoration - Cabinet
PostPosted: Feb Mon 26, 2018 12:54 am 
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2nd cloth and orientation is perfect.


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 Post subject: Re: New Zealand 1937 'Rolls' Model BBR Restoration - Cabinet
PostPosted: Feb Mon 26, 2018 10:33 am 
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Hi again ,
The problem you mentioned is caused by being too dry, needs to be a wet coat.
Nitro will crack from changing temperature, we call the cracking ,checking.
Nitro will always crack or turn to checking in time or if the temperature changed in 24 hours.
Normally the first 3 coats you do a 50/50 mix .
Lacquer 50% and thinner 50% nitro can also be used as a wash coat or a sealer,
Eg you can stain the timber or stain the finish or you can tint it, you can even do all 3 on the same item if needed. Thats one of its best points.
But thinning the first 3 coats 50/50 is so thin you can even wipe it on. But to give you some idea of processing, go thin coats and 24 hours between each coat.

,pete

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 Post subject: Re: New Zealand 1937 'Rolls' Model BBR Restoration - Cabinet
PostPosted: Feb Mon 26, 2018 10:48 am 
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Awesome, thanks for that. I'll see how I go with the second coat, hopefully tomorrow... 50/50 it is.

Cheers,

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: New Zealand 1937 'Rolls' Model BBR Restoration - Cabinet
PostPosted: Feb Mon 26, 2018 11:08 am 
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Wait steve there is a problem here ,,im going to type it up

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 Post subject: Re: New Zealand 1937 'Rolls' Model BBR Restoration - Cabinet
PostPosted: Feb Mon 26, 2018 11:16 am 
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Ok , you need to think in terms of bases. You will get reactions and cracking and dull flat finishes if the bases dont match.
So , oils are oil base. " turps"
Waters are water base "water"
Shellac is alcohol base. "Metho"
Oil varnish is oil base, " turps"
Nitro is lacquer and it is thinned with lacquer thinners.
So all stains and fillers must be safe to use in the base of your choosen clear coats.

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 Post subject: Re: New Zealand 1937 'Rolls' Model BBR Restoration - Cabinet
PostPosted: Feb Mon 26, 2018 11:35 am 
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Heres a link to my restoration forum threads.
All the information you need is there.
The name is ths same, vintage pete
https://vintage-radio.com.au/default.asp?f=14

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 Post subject: Re: New Zealand 1937 'Rolls' Model BBR Restoration - Cabinet
PostPosted: Feb Tue 27, 2018 8:12 pm 
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Thanks Pete, I'll have a read of that over the next couple of days. To meet the deadline I'm going to soldier on in the direction I'm going - but I may re-strip this cabinet and start again at some point.

One thing I need to do is apologise :oops: - I've had this stuff for about a year, and look at it (and use it) often - but I would have sworn it was NC lacquer and NC lacquer thinners... but I took another look yesterday:
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I also gave the cabinet a light wet-sand with 600-grit and gave it another coat. I did a much 'wetter' mix and it flowed better, but still not smooth. Weather dependent (its been a bit cold) I'll put a clear coat on it tonight and call it done (for now) so I can reassemble it.

Cheers

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: New Zealand 1937 'Rolls' Model BBR Restoration - Cabinet
PostPosted: Feb Tue 27, 2018 10:17 pm 
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Hi steve, yes thats acrylic, its designed to basically be tack dry when it hits the panel. It was very popular in the 70s for cars.
It dries flat and you sand it down with wet and dry and buff it to a gloss.
The gloss lasts about 1 year and then you buff it again.
Major problem!!! You can not get it near or spray it over , oils, spirits, stains or bases, it will only crack and bubble, go dull and fall off.
You will need to completely strip it now of clear and stains.
Acrylic is a dog of a thing when it comes to reactions.
Have you considered a hand rubbed Danish oil finish for the Radios?
Easy to do, you decide on gloss level by rubbing between each coat with steelwool , 0000 grade, if you want full gloss just put a wet coat on,
You can even spray the last coats on leaving it wet and then buff off with 0000 grade steelwool, than polish.

A nitro finish takes experience and can get complicated. Its a nice finish but its best if you have done some varnishing ,shellacing , oil finishes etc etc before you take it on ..
The acrylic you used is non toxic and safe to spray, but not a good choice for radios or furniture.
Bin it!
Have a think about oil rubbed finishes, its an enjoyable way to make timber beautiful.
Slow drying though, but you can put a heater on, dont confuse it with other oil finishes.
Danish oil has a small amount of varnish in its make up to allow it to dry, other oils never dry.
Have fun steve and enjoy your project.
Pete

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 Post subject: Re: New Zealand 1937 'Rolls' Model BBR Restoration - Cabinet
PostPosted: Feb Wed 28, 2018 9:50 pm 
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battery-maker wrote:
2nd cloth and orientation is perfect.


After looking at both again I think you were right - so I went with it. Now I just need to get the darned stuff to line up - its a very open weave that isn't particularly flat. Its fighting me all the way but I almost have it.

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 Post subject: Re: New Zealand 1937 'Rolls' Model BBR Restoration - Cabinet
PostPosted: Feb Wed 28, 2018 10:02 pm 
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vintage pete wrote:
Hi steve, yes thats acrylic, its designed to basically be tack dry when it hits the panel. It was very popular in the 70s for cars.
It dries flat and you sand it down with wet and dry and buff it to a gloss.
The gloss lasts about 1 year and then you buff it again.
Major problem!!! You can not get it near or spray it over , oils, spirits, stains or bases, it will only crack and bubble, go dull and fall off.
You will need to completely strip it now of clear and stains.
Acrylic is a dog of a thing when it comes to reactions.
Have you considered a hand rubbed Danish oil finish for the Radios?
Easy to do, you decide on gloss level by rubbing between each coat with steelwool , 0000 grade, if you want full gloss just put a wet coat on,
You can even spray the last coats on leaving it wet and then buff off with 0000 grade steelwool, than polish.

A nitro finish takes experience and can get complicated. Its a nice finish but its best if you have done some varnishing ,shellacing , oil finishes etc etc before you take it on ..
The acrylic you used is non toxic and safe to spray, but not a good choice for radios or furniture.
Bin it!
Have a think about oil rubbed finishes, its an enjoyable way to make timber beautiful.
Slow drying though, but you can put a heater on, dont confuse it with other oil finishes.
Danish oil has a small amount of varnish in its make up to allow it to dry, other oils never dry.
Have fun steve and enjoy your project.
Pete


Cheers Pete - regarding reactions - I've been using an oil-based stain followed by shellac (which I hand mix from flakes using meths) and then the lacquer - I believe this is an ok combination? I have a cabinet done over a year ago which still looks pretty much like it did when I sprayed it, no reactions, no cracking, bubbling or falling off. The finish is not perfect - but I think thats more down to me than the product. I'm learning.

I've also used teak oil on one cabinet, wax on a few, and even poly on one back when I first started and didn't know any better. I might get some Danish oil and give it a go. I'm always keen to give things a try. I won't give up on spraying because I want to learn to do it right - seems the only way to do that is to keep doing it - and since its easy enough to strip and start again I don't mind if I screw one up and have to respray it. This particular set is done though - I'm going to move on to the next one. My partner said it looks amazing, and she is always right :)

I'll take some better daytime photos - this was 1:30 this morning once it was finally reassembled. The knobs still need a coat of clear. The dial looks amazing in real life - edge-lit glass, almost luminescent.
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 Post subject: Re: New Zealand 1937 'Rolls' Model BBR Restoration - Cabinet
PostPosted: Mar Thu 01, 2018 10:13 am 
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Oh no! Dont give up spraying! Its a great tool , once you learn it,
Ive been spraying for over 20 years, i started in car industry and then went into furniture.
You can spray,
Shellac.
Varnish
Nitro
Poly.
Oils.
Glazes
Stains .
And the list goes on and on. Plus for those products you dont need the best gun in the world because your not spraying metallics.

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