I sort of like this "hobby" of "fixin" up old radios, so far I've recapped a HQ-129x and am working on restoring a Zenith 6s222. The forums here have been very helpfull with both of these projects.

I've got a decent multi meter and soldering iron, that's it... Reading about performing alignments and needing "scopes" & "freq generators" for that sort of work.

So my question is - what sort of equipment should I be looking into getting, and what sort of costs will I have to put out? also, would I expect to be able to get these sorts of thing at Kutztown?

Regards,

Gregory

Gregory,

Your questions are sort of like a post on a forum mostly for women about how much one should invest in shoes.

So the answer is lots and lots of equipment. A big equipment budget is always nice to have.

However, you can often substitute skill and patience for fancy gear.

For old AM tube radios, an inexpensive meter and perhaps a dim bulb tester are all the equipment you really need to get them going again.

For safety, if you are working on AC/DC sets, an isolation transformer is a really good thing to have.

If you are planning to work on FM radios, a sweep generator and scope might be considered necessary to do a correct alignment on those.

If you are into building stuff, simple signal generators and tracers are reasonable projects.

A scope is very nice to have, and will help you learn how circuits work. Many radio shops never had or used one.

Used equipment is a good bet, but remember that you may have to refurbish it before it can be used.

Flea markets at radio meets are a good place to find used equipment. Remember that hamfests usually also have flea markets with the right sort of stuff for sale. Patience, and some idea about what you are looking for will help at these things.

For hobby use, I suggest going very cheap at first, on the theory that your first choices may not be the best, so you may be shopping again fairly soon.

Beyond the equipment, you need a bit of a technical library, and a stock of parts to have at hand. There are extant threads on these topics, and of course, on choosing equipment, as well.

For AM radios, I think I might consider an RF generator as the next item to get. That would allow you do an alignment by the book.

For troubleshooting, a signal injector, a buzzer in a probe, can be very handy and is low cost.

I hope this is of some help to you.

Ted

Always. The most important piece of test equipment is the one between your ears. The more you put into it the more useful it will become.

RRM

Multi-meter
Isolation transformer
Signal generator
Freq counter .. not real necessary BUT certainly nice to help determine precise freq of sig gen.
Scope... but not really "needed"
Capacitance meter ... not really needed but nice for reading small values like under .1uf .. only for checking old little square mica caps you might have that you can't read well or happen to have laying around the bench.

Agree, you can usually find stuff for great prices at hamfests.

Mike

Agreed, but from what I gather on this site, and others, is the predominence to "dig in" and avoid learning the basics and theory necessary to complete the job successfully.
A lot on here are in it as a hobby of course, and simply don't want to be bothered with anything that includes reading, studying or math.
Those are the ones who start threads that reach tens of pages long, and still haven't figured out what needs to be done.
The experience and learning process is hindered without first learning the basics.
And so the "shortcuts" continue, and the process goes on and on.

And when a bunch of befuddled people (putz's) share their sides of the story, things get amusing.
This, that, and every which way the problems get discussed, oh man, the solutions amaze me.
I just shake my head.

As for test equipment, if you don't have the aforementioned understanding beforehand about electronics, yet own a ton of test equipment, (just because "someone said" you need it) you're just complicating the whole mess even more.

You will need a frequency generator, old Eico's and Heathkits come up often on Ebay or at any hamfest. Cheap import or surplus digital frequency meters are available to get your generator on target when doing alignment. As stated an isolation transformer and variac are really cool to have, and can provide some level of safety when working on transformerless sets. A coupe of old fashioned analog ammeters say 100 MA and 1 AMP can realy be usefull too.

If you are not in a rush, you should be able to get all of above for less than $200 delivered.

You do not need an oscilliscope to fix old AM radios.

I started out with a dim bulb tester a multimeter and a variac. Acquired a signal generator and tube tester not long after that. Aside from the usual tools (soldering iron, hand tools, etc) these have served me well. I have successfully restored 16 sets ranging from long dead TRF Majestics to 10 tube Zenith consoles and everything in-between. I even had the pleasure of re-stuffing the dreaded Philco cap blocks in a Model 20. Then right on up to 70's and 80's receivers as well as scratch building a pair of PPP 6v6 mono amps for a set of tower speakers I built. They all work. They all sound great. I did'nt electrocute myself. And I have received little or no formal or informal education on theory. Then again I have always been very mechanically inclined. I did my first water pump change on an '81 Bonneville by myself when I was 10! Dad was duely impressed. Whenever I get stuck the guys and gals here always come to my rescue. Have'nt had a thread stretch out for pages and pages yet though.

You don't need alot of fancy equipment to work on the average tube radio. Common sense, safety, eyes, ears and nose. Multimeter, signal generator, tube tester and a variac is all I use. Save your $$$. JMO

I disagree about hamfest prices as being cheap or even reasonable. I have been to countless 'fests and as of the last few years those old geezers want the sun, moon, & stars for mediocre quality test equip. Forget buying a Tek or HP brand there! Jimminy Christmas, even Sencore stuff is over-priced. ebay is substantially better and you'll probably get more of an honest answer from the seller than from the hot air baloons at hamfests. Perhaps I come across as being cyincal but, my experiences aren't a lie and for every 50 pieces of test equipment for sale at a hamfest, only 1 or 2 are priced "reasonable" and "may be" worth taking a chance on. You also don't have buyer recourse on a failed item at a hamfest like you do with eBay or similar. The cost of items I've bought cheap off eBay would end up equating to the GDP of a small third world country at a hamfest. All you need to do is shop smart and carefully; do your homeowrk prior to bidding on an item. Match your test equip. selection to your abilities. No use in paying for features you'll never use. If you plan to grow and advance in your electronics prowess, then perhaps the better brands are justified to save money down the road.
IMHO, some of todays Chaiwanese import test gear is better and more affordable than fiddling around with and relying on Griefkit, Eico and similar older brands. The specs when purchased new are better than the older stuff and it's all gonna go out of spec. over time regardless, so you might as well enjoy digital readouts, space-saving compact circuitry, lower power consumption, etc. Now I mention the latter only in reference to someone starting out with basically nothing on their test/repair bench and looking to get decent results. Anyone who is quite serious about test equipment that holds calibration goes a whole different route. Just be honest with yourself and your future needs on test equipment, then shop and spend from there.

Cheers!

The amount of electronics theory you need to know to start restoring broadcast band tube radios is very minimal. If you have the inclination and know the very basic theory such as ohms law and how to use a multimeter plus how to work safely around electricity, and you know how to identify components and how to solder, you can begin on simple projects. An engineering degree or 50 years of service experience will always be helpful, but remember everyone started out somewhere, and with most everyone I know more value came from experimenting rather than from just reading books. The amount or types of test equpment you'll want to have depends on where you want to go. If you just want to stick to simple radios, a few Eico or Heath items like a multimeter, signal generator and maybe a basic scope and counter will probably fill the bill. If you want to move on to more complex radios or restoring complex test gear or ?, your test equipment quantity and quality will need to expand depending on your own wants. Thus its impossible to come right out and say what you'll need to get.

Plus, there are always those willing to help here at ARF. Some readers might get a chuckle out of watching someone work through a project with multiple ARF posts, but they don't realize its simply a different tool for learning than what they used in the past, and the poster is gaining experience along the way with those who can help show-and-tell with specifics. Find a book that can do that.

-Mark-

The most important piece of "test gear" in my shop is not electronic. It's a copy of the "RCA Receiving Tube Manual." The next most important item is a VTVM. With just those two items, I can diagnose and repair about 90% of all problems in vacuum tube and transistor radios. It's actually pretty simple: the tube manual tells me the pin-outs and voltages to expect; the meter tells me if the voltages are there or not. With transistors, it's usually self-evident what the pin-outs are.

If you are interested in electronics and radio theory, the need for different kinds of test equipment becomes apparent as your skills develop. You also realize that there are basically only two classes of test equipment: (A) those things which serve to expand your capabilities into the 10% of situations that cannot be handled by knowledge and a VTVM or a good DMM, and (B) those things which are conveniences to make your work easier.

Test equipment that extends capabilities:
~AM Signal generator (lets you do alignments and troubleshooting)
~Isolation transformer (allows you to work more safely on line-operated circuitry, keeps your test gear from getting "zapped.")
~FM or sweep generator (for working on FM and TV, or where you need to check the response of tuned circuits).
~Variac or dim bulb tester (to protect what you are working on until you know you can trust it on full line voltage).

Test equipment that is "nice to have" for convenience:
~Oscilloscope (Good alternative to VTVM and signal tracer, lets you "see" waveforms, necessary for sweep alignments and other special applications).
~Signal Tracer (gives you an alternative method of troubleshooting).
~Capacitor tester with HV leakage test, or separate capacitance meter and insulation resistance tester.
~Tube tester. Transistor tester if you want to work on solid state radios.
~RLC or "Z" meter.
~Audio oscillator for testing audio stages.
~Frequency counter or digitally tuned radio (checks accuracy of signal generators and oscillator circuits in equipment).

Nawww, I’ve never seen any old kielbasa eating foagies at any hamfest flea markets who sit behind their table like Jabba the Hutt thinking everything they are selling is platinum dust! You sir must be going to the wrong hamfests LOL!

-Mark-

Sausage sandwiches are the main staple at hamfests! Twenty years from now you might see me wearing a ball cap w/ felt call letters, eating a sausage 'n onions sandwich!

The stuff I saw in the tailgate part of the local hamfest wasn't even good enough to be rated as junk. One guy had a rusty EICO 460 marked $50. I might have given $5 to get the CRT but with that kind of craziness I didn't even ask. To be fair, I did get there late.

RRM

Twenty years from now you'll look like a big fat sausage sandwich too.

And amuse the onlookers by balancing a Philco 90 on your belly.

OK, women wear fancy shoes - loong after they learn to walk in bear feet. Or, if your taste in women is somewhat more discriminating, bare feet. Oscilloscopes teach more about what's going on than !anything! except an Elmer. Hamfests, guided by an experienced soul, are the biggest bang for the buck if you use a modicum of sanity. Really, an oscilloscope isnt more necessary than a set of eyeballs. OK, that's just my opinion. I digress..

No offense meant to the blind technicians amongst us. Amen to that.

Nope, not a chance that's gonna happen --- I dislike sausage and sausage sandwiches and the cooked peppers upset my stomach.... and I was never a fan of anything from Philco. At a hamfest, I am the one who moves briskly about, easily capable of kneeling to notice a hidden gem at the bottom of a box under a table while the guy next to me pokes around at the items with his cane.


I'm with ya RRM. I could see bringing that stuff for guys that need specific parts and such, but to display and ask high prices on such garbage is ludicrous. I've seen far more promising equip. thrown into a dumpster. What amazes me is how so many of the sellers will pack up their wares time after time and set up again at a later date. It's the same stuff priced the same, town after town. Maybe they really don't want to sell the crud and it makes for an excuse to set up and spend a Sunday doing something other than joining the ratchet-jaws at a local McDonalds for coffee and hens cackling about politics and crime!