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 Post subject: Re: New Multi-Meter
PostPosted: Nov Sun 19, 2017 9:37 pm 
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Location: Charleston, W.Va.
Leigh wrote:
pixellany wrote:
I built and repaired LOTS of stuff using nothing more than a VTVM and a low-end Heath signal generator.

Me too. EICO 249 VTVM and an EICO sig gen.

That was back before I could afford the nonsense I have now.

- Leigh

Me three. :) In my case an RCA WV-98C VTVM and an RCA WR-50B signal generator. I still use both on a regular basis.

Of course a digital DMM is also nice to have, especially for resistance and quick voltage measurements. But for me, nothing takes the place of an analog meter for alignment purposes.

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 Post subject: Re: New Multi-Meter
PostPosted: Nov Sun 19, 2017 10:52 pm 
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Poston Drake wrote:
... nothing takes the place of an analog meter for alignment purposes.

+1000

That's certainly true.

Attempting any adjustment (other than setting power supply voltages) with a DMM ...
does bad things to my blood pressure and my normally pleasant personality.

- Leigh

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 Post subject: Re: New Multi-Meter
PostPosted: Nov Sun 19, 2017 11:11 pm 
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Leigh wrote:
Poston Drake wrote:
... nothing takes the place of an analog meter for alignment purposes.

+1000

That's certainly true.

Attempting any adjustment (other than setting power supply voltages) with a DMM ...
does bad things to my blood pressure and my normally pleasant personality.

- Leigh

How about your preference for a watch? Analog or digital? lol

( btw... there are very few if any young people today who even know how to read an analog clock!)
Not taught anymore! Can you believe that?

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 Post subject: Re: New Multi-Meter
PostPosted: Nov Mon 20, 2017 9:16 am 
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Joined: Nov Wed 15, 2006 7:56 am
Posts: 1073
Location: germany
best for tube radios are fat VTVM with a very large instrument,
like the http://www.wellenkino.de/rv3/

greetings
Martin


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 Post subject: Re: New Multi-Meter
PostPosted: Nov Mon 20, 2017 1:48 pm 
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Nice meter Martin, over here the RCA Senior VoltOhmist, was a very popular VTVM with a large 17.5 CM meter.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: New Multi-Meter
PostPosted: Nov Mon 20, 2017 1:56 pm 
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Pbpix wrote:
How about your preference for a watch? Analog or digital? lol
Analog.

The one on my wrist is a very nice analog made by Victorinox in Switzerland.

In my watch pocket is a very nice pocket watch in a 14K gold case, made in 1887.
At 130 years old, it still keeps perfect time. Find a digital that will do that at that age.

Pbpix wrote:
( btw... there are very few if any young people today who even know how to read an analog clock!)
Not taught anymore! Can you believe that?
Modern kids don't know how to read anything of any type,

Why should I be surprised?

- Leigh

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 Post subject: Re: New Multi-Meter
PostPosted: Nov Tue 21, 2017 12:48 pm 
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Location: germany
but some of the nice VTVM oldies have very obsolete parts inside.
For example: my both RV3 instruments have 2 pcs. of
(excuse my small english, we say in germany Eisenwasserstoff-Widerstand) means Fe H Resistor bulb tube for stabilizing the filament voltage, if one of them fail I will not find a spare part.
The most of this amazing instruments are now killed by audio phools bec. they run a pair of E80F, so RV3 become rare in the market. The little tube in the demodulation probe is a SQ type of 6AL5 (=E91AA or EAA901s or 6AL5WA)

The classic Set for repair of vintage radios can be:

A Signal Generator or Signal Injector,
VTVM
a Dipmeter
Signal Tracer, IT12 or like that
analog AC Voltmeter can be nice, IM38 or the fat Sennheiser RV55

greetings
Martin


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 Post subject: Re: New Multi-Meter
PostPosted: Nov Wed 29, 2017 4:57 am 
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I ran some non-scientific experiments one time comparing my various instruments (Fluke DMM, cheapo DMM, VOM, VTVM), and found nearly all agreed quite closely when it comes to AC and DC voltage and current measurements (obviously, did not do current on the VTVM).

I found greater variation in the resistance measurements among the digital meters, particularly at the upper (>1Mohm) and lower (<100 ohms) end of the scale. The Flukes were much more accurate at those extremes. I generally find making resistance measurements with a VTVM too much trouble, although my HP410B can do very large resistances to 100M, well beyond the outer limits of my handheld DMM's.

Personally, I like the Fluke DMM's and my old Craftsman DMM much better than the cheapo DMMs. The cheap DMM's have junky leads that just don't feel right for making measurements on higher voltages; the leads also don't last very long, and the plugs where the leads go in are not always standard. Good deals on used Flukes always pop up on Ebay, especially the 27 F/M. One of those, and an inexpensive VTVM and you can perform just about any measurement you would need on an old radio.


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 Post subject: Re: New Multi-Meter
PostPosted: Nov Wed 29, 2017 5:40 am 
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What's wrong with this Fluke (non Fluke) sales brochure image?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/BEST-Digital-M ... 0706.m4781

Attachment:
fluke.jpg
fluke.jpg [ 110.05 KiB | Viewed 244 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: New Multi-Meter
PostPosted: Nov Wed 29, 2017 7:35 am 
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MM wrote:
we say in germany Eisenwasserstoff-Widerstand means Fe H Resistor bulb tube for stabilizing the filament voltage,
Hi Martin,

Here in the US we call those ballast tubes.
We use them for the same purpose.

They're usually housed in regular glass plug-in tubes, although other packages exist.

- Leigh

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 Post subject: Re: New Multi-Meter
PostPosted: Nov Wed 29, 2017 8:09 am 
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Peter, looks like the meter is set for DC, not the AC it is supposed to be testing lol

BTW, same problem with the 7th image. Looks like they reused the pic of the meter in all their images since at all times it is set for reading D.C. Voltages in each of them.

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 Post subject: Re: New Multi-Meter
PostPosted: Nov Wed 29, 2017 9:16 am 
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EICOKnight wrote:
Peter, looks like the meter is set for DC, not the AC it is supposed to be testing lol

BTW, same problem with the 7th image. Looks like they reused the pic of the meter in all their images since at all times it is set for reading D.C. Voltages in each of them.

Yep.

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 Post subject: Re: New Multi-Meter
PostPosted: Nov Thu 30, 2017 12:19 am 
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Pbpix wrote:
EICOKnight wrote:
Peter, looks like the meter is set for DC, not the AC it is supposed to be testing lol

BTW, same problem with the 7th image. Looks like they reused the pic of the meter in all their images since at all times it is set for reading D.C. Voltages in each of them.

Yep.


Is that a power doubler strip at 220v ?

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 Post subject: Re: New Multi-Meter
PostPosted: Nov Thu 30, 2017 12:50 am 
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glue_ru wrote:
Pbpix wrote:
EICOKnight wrote:
Peter, looks like the meter is set for DC, not the AC it is supposed to be testing lol

BTW, same problem with the 7th image. Looks like they reused the pic of the meter in all their images since at all times it is set for reading D.C. Voltages in each of them.

Yep.


Is that a power doubler strip at 220v ?

Yeah that's crazy too. I was trying to see if it met European types or Australian... but I don't recognize it as such... so it's a US strip I'm betting.

So how'd the display get to read 220v? ... Isn't Photoshop great?

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 Post subject: Re: New Multi-Meter
PostPosted: Nov Thu 30, 2017 12:58 am 
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There's more wrong with that picture than the meter being set for DC. It's a NEMA 5-15R outlet, rated 125-V maximum.

I think everybody working in and with electronics needs a good, accurate digital meter as their "go-to" reference for any other meter they use. Analog VTVMs and VOMs have a number of important advantages, but resolution is not one of them. That becomes important if you decide to get into newer solid state and digital projects where a tenth or a hundredth of a volt could make a difference in how something operates.

But I have to tell you that I am a bit reluctant to recommend a Fluke unless you are in business and can write it off as capital equipment. Modern Flukes are made in China out of the same chip sets and displays that go into many other meters; about the only real difference is that Fluke tests and certifies their instruments to meet most US and international safety standards while many other meters do not. But unless you plan on using your meter in transformer vaults, substations, or places like that, it's not likely to make much difference.

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 Post subject: Re: New Multi-Meter
PostPosted: Nov Thu 30, 2017 2:04 am 
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Chris108 wrote:
There's more wrong with that picture than the meter being set for DC. It's a NEMA 5-15R outlet, rated 125-V maximum.

I think everybody working in and with electronics needs a good, accurate digital meter as their "go-to" reference for any other meter they use. Analog VTVMs and VOMs have a number of important advantages, but resolution is not one of them. That becomes important if you decide to get into newer solid state and digital projects where a tenth or a hundredth of a volt could make a difference in how something operates.

But I have to tell you that I am a bit reluctant to recommend a Fluke unless you are in business and can write it off as capital equipment. Modern Flukes are made in China out of the same chip sets and displays that go into many other meters; about the only real difference is that Fluke tests and certifies their instruments to meet most US and international safety standards while many other meters do not. But unless you plan on using your meter in transformer vaults, substations, or places like that, it's not likely to make much difference.

I'm going to respectfully disagree and state that the country of manufacture matters little; what matters are the specs and reliability, and Fluke wins hands down in that department.

Used Fluke meters in decent condition show up all the time on Ebay; one can get a Fluke 27/FM, a really nice DMM, for $50.

Brand new, there are cheaper meters that are probably reliable and safe enough. Just avoid the bottom of the barrel from Harbor Freight and the ilk, unless you just want to pick up extra "throw away" meters.


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 Post subject: Re: New Multi-Meter
PostPosted: Nov Thu 30, 2017 5:45 am 
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If it was Australian mains it should read 240 -250VAC Thats a NEMA plug. Its stinking hot here at the moment & we are expecting a foot of rain in two days, that's what we expect in a northern Monsoon, not here in what will be summer. Must be a few air cons going as the mains here is down about 5Volts from normal. Domestic cables are leakage tested at 500VDC.

I normally use an Oscilloscope aligning, however some sets here have a permanent setup & plug for an analog meter. Beware, there were some meters with a cap built in just for that job: Peak 200H is one. Those caps fail & I have replaced caps in several meters, including early AVO, due to failures & leakage; Prefer analogue meter with unstable & dirty voltage.

Marc


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