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 Post subject: Issue with 1963 Zenith Belt Drive Changer
PostPosted: Nov Thu 20, 2014 7:53 pm 
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Joined: Nov Wed 19, 2014 9:15 pm
Posts: 1
I recently purchased a top of the line 1963 Zenith MH2670 Console with the semi-rare (from what I've read) Zenith made Belt Drive Changer with Micro Touch tone arm.

Model Mh2670
Chassis 14H25 and 7H31
Record Changer 169-159 (or 169-129 ?)

It is beautiful and everything with the stereo works great. There aren't any symptoms or issues with the amp or tuner but I do plan to have the electrolytic capacitors checked / replaced in the very near future out of fear something might happen if I don't.

Anyway, the only current issue is with the record changer. The rej/on/off/manual switch doesn't move as it should or work to turn the charger on. I purchased the photofact for the console which led me to the photofact for the changer. The photofact for the console referenced changer model 169-159 and the set and folder number. I ordered the photofact and it's for model 169-128 & 169-129 but as far as I can tell its the same.

After taking the changer out and doing some troubleshooting we found that it will turn on and works and sounds great but you have to pull the Idler Push Rod to engage the Switch Lever and turn the motor on. At the end of the record it will go through the steps as it should and turn off automatically although I haven't tried it with more than one record so I'm not sure about the complete change cycle. The rej/on/off/manual switch doesn't/won't move to the manual setting at all but it will move to reject and go throught the reject steps after starting the motor.

We didn't get into taking it all apart but cleaned and lubed everything we could see and it seems to all be moving freely and as it should. I have a suspicion the issue could be with the upper component of the velocity trip mechanism being caught up or bound against the lower component but I can't really see it which brings me to my actual questions....

How do I remove the turntable support and hub assembly? I have attached a picture of the spindle. Is it just the ring at the bottom that needs pried / lifted off? Since I wasn't sure I decided I would post and ask the question before tearing into something I shouldn't be. Any assistance on this or the overall switch issue would be greatly appreciated!!

As a note, I am a Newbie to vintage stereo / record changers but am an engineer with a pretty good ability to figure things out and enough sense (usually) to know when I shouldn't even try. I am very interested in learning as much as possible and where I can doing things myself.


Attachments:
Zenith Console2.jpg
Zenith Console2.jpg [ 229.5 KiB | Viewed 3538 times ]
File comment: bottom mechanism showing how I have to start it
Bottom Mechanism w-comments.jpg
Bottom Mechanism w-comments.jpg [ 202.15 KiB | Viewed 3538 times ]
File comment: how do I get this off?!
Turntable Support and Hub Assembly reduced.jpg
Turntable Support and Hub Assembly reduced.jpg [ 205.22 KiB | Viewed 3538 times ]
File comment: The original ad which I just find really cool.
zenith-stereo-console-mh2670 Ad.jpg
zenith-stereo-console-mh2670 Ad.jpg [ 225.42 KiB | Viewed 3538 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Issue with 1963 Zenith Belt Drive Changer
PostPosted: Nov Fri 21, 2014 12:24 am 
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Joined: Sep Thu 20, 2007 3:16 am
Posts: 858
Location: Winter Park, Florida
That is the first version of the belt drive changer with the Cobra arm.

To remove the sub-platter assembly, there is a small set screw underneath the chassis on the side of the turntable bearing well. It
is just to the right of your arrow showing the push rod. The whole assembly, spindle and all, will then be able to be lifted up
and out. You do not want to remove any thing on the top side of the turntable, that ring you spoke of is part of the 45 spindle.

Sounds like your on off switch is not connecting to the push rod properly, can't tell from here.

I do see one of the hairpin type springs on the 45 spindle is not attached, compare the lower left side to the upper right side in your
photo.


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 Post subject: Re: Issue with 1963 Zenith Belt Drive Changer
PostPosted: Jan Mon 05, 2015 10:06 pm 
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Joined: Jan Mon 05, 2015 10:01 pm
Posts: 32
Hi there OP,

How are you making out with this turntable? I just picked up a (I believe 1961) Zenith SFF2570-1 console with the identical changer. I will probably start a separate restoration thread where I can ask all of my technical questions. But the photo you posted was very helpful.

Our changer works well. It was dead slow when first powered up - I believe due to hardened lubrication. Once it ran for a while it got up to speed and all seemed to be functioning properly. I used the reject function and it worked the first time, but then it wouldn't change records after that. I've since removed the changer from the console and pulled up the platter in order to clean everything and relube. Fortunately the switches seem to be ok.

Any additional information on your progress or diagnostics concerning non-working record changing for this model would be much appreciated.

Incredible forum here!

Here is a picture of mine btw:
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Issue with 1963 Zenith Belt Drive Changer
PostPosted: Jan Fri 09, 2015 10:29 pm 
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Joined: Jan Mon 05, 2015 10:01 pm
Posts: 32
How do you remove the platter by the way?


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 Post subject: Re: Issue with 1963 Zenith Belt Drive Changer
PostPosted: Jan Sat 10, 2015 3:55 pm 
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Joined: Sep Thu 20, 2007 3:16 am
Posts: 858
Location: Winter Park, Florida
To remove platter, you must have the 45 spindle in the up position, then the platter is supposed to lift off the belt driven subplatter. The upper platter rests
on rubber isolation grommets on the subplatter. Due to age, many times the grommets have melted and grown to the upper platter making removal difficult.


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 Post subject: Re: Issue with 1963 Zenith Belt Drive Changer
PostPosted: Feb Thu 26, 2015 1:56 pm 
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Joined: Jan Mon 05, 2015 10:01 pm
Posts: 32
orthophonic wrote:
That is the first version of the belt drive changer with the Cobra arm.

To remove the sub-platter assembly, there is a small set screw underneath the chassis on the side of the turntable bearing well. It
is just to the right of your arrow showing the push rod. The whole assembly, spindle and all, will then be able to be lifted up
and out. You do not want to remove any thing on the top side of the turntable, that ring you spoke of is part of the 45 spindle.


I'm cross-posting this from another thread because given your precise instruction and the photos of the same changer, I thought it might be better suited here:

So I'm just getting around to disassembly and cleaning/lubing of the record changer. The platter actually came off quite easily as the rubber grommets are still in excellent condition. In fact, aside from a little dirt/dust and hardened lube, this changer appears to be in remarkably good condition overall. Perhaps it saw little use over the years.

Anyway, my question is, now that I have the platter off, how do I remove the sub-platter underneath? There is another thread that I posted on before - showing the same record changer - and it's said there to remove a set screw in the bearing well underneath. On mine there are 2 set screws and after removing both of them there is no movement whatsoever. The sub-platter will not budge and I'm hesitant to reef on it. Any thoughts? I really want to remove the subplatter in order to thoroughly remove some belt residue and gain access to other parts of the mechanism that appear to be stiff and in need of a good cleaning and re-lube.


Thanks very much for any guidance!


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 Post subject: Re: Issue with 1963 Zenith Belt Drive Changer
PostPosted: Apr Tue 07, 2015 1:54 am 
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Joined: Apr Mon 06, 2015 12:15 am
Posts: 2
Did you ever figure out the sub platter? I am stuck on the same issue with this model.
Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Issue with 1963 Zenith Belt Drive Changer
PostPosted: Jul Mon 20, 2015 10:34 pm 
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Joined: Jan Mon 05, 2015 10:01 pm
Posts: 32
Sorry it's taken so long for the reply. Haven't been here much lately. I have a separate thread on my restoration going. In my case, there is a circlip at the base of the spindle. Remove that and the subplatter slides right off. The set screws underneath have nothing to do with removing the subplatter - at least on this model. I relied on the SAMS manual with component/exploded diagram to figure it out. I have a series of photos I need to post at the other thread. Reply back here or PM me if you still need help or care to see the photos.


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 Post subject: Re: Issue with 1963 Zenith Belt Drive Changer
PostPosted: Feb Fri 16, 2018 4:26 am 
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Joined: Apr Sun 16, 2017 7:57 pm
Posts: 11
I'm having a similar issue. Would someone be happy to put an arrow on the elusive sub platter release? :D

I have the sub-platter off.

First, I tried finding the allen screw. But I'm not seeing the allen screws to release the sub platter. There are two holes under the chassis directly below the spindle, but a hex won't unscrew them. Closer inspection appears to show there are micro ball bearings in those to holes.

Next, I moved to plan "B", and I removed to the four rivets that released the pop up adapter. When I look down on the spindle - there is a washer (no c clip). The washer is held down by two prongs in the spindle. Does the spindle lift up to release the sub platter?

Here are pictures:

Below: under chassis.

Image

Below: under chassis.

Image

Below: Looking down at top of chassis at sub-platter.

Image


Last edited by zenithconsole on Feb Fri 16, 2018 4:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Issue with 1963 Zenith Belt Drive Changer
PostPosted: Feb Fri 16, 2018 4:34 am 
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Joined: Apr Sun 16, 2017 7:57 pm
Posts: 11
83glt wrote:
Sorry it's taken so long for the reply. Haven't been here much lately. I have a separate thread on my restoration going. In my case, there is a circlip at the base of the spindle. Remove that and the subplatter slides right off. The set screws underneath have nothing to do with removing the subplatter - at least on this model. I relied on the SAMS manual with component/exploded diagram to figure it out. I have a series of photos I need to post at the other thread. Reply back here or PM me if you still need help or care to see the photos.


Where was the c-clip? Is it where the washer is in my photo below?

Image


Last edited by zenithconsole on Feb Fri 16, 2018 4:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Issue with 1963 Zenith Belt Drive Changer
PostPosted: Feb Fri 16, 2018 4:39 am 
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Joined: Apr Sun 16, 2017 7:57 pm
Posts: 11
orthophonic wrote:

To remove the sub-platter assembly, there is a small set screw underneath the chassis on the side of the turntable bearing well. It
is just to the right of your arrow showing the push rod. The whole assembly, spindle and all, will then be able to be lifted up
and out. You do not want to remove any thing on the top side of the turntable, that ring you spoke of is part of the 45 spindle.



Is this the set screw and if so what tool is used to release it? I tried various hex keys and none of them fit.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Issue with 1963 Zenith Belt Drive Changer
PostPosted: Feb Sun 18, 2018 4:47 am 
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Joined: Apr Sun 16, 2017 7:57 pm
Posts: 11
By the way, the motor on my unit has a 1966 manufacture date. The table is from a 1967 X960 console.

Is anyone familiar with how to release the sub platter on this model? If so, please post an image with an arrow noting the release method.


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 Post subject: Re: Issue with 1963 Zenith Belt Drive Changer
PostPosted: Feb Mon 19, 2018 11:15 pm 
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Joined: Feb Wed 04, 2015 12:26 am
Posts: 648
Just wanted to stay nice cat on the bottom left. Unusual coloring.


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 Post subject: Re: Issue with 1963 Zenith Belt Drive Changer
PostPosted: Feb Wed 21, 2018 10:18 pm 
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Joined: Feb Tue 02, 2016 2:38 am
Posts: 142
Location: Saint Paul, Minn
I have one of the Zenith changers (slightly newer), but haven't had to remove the platter support. I did however have to pull the record sensor bar and that had a different kind of setscrew on it. I wouldn't recommend pulling yours off as that created a LOT of headaches getting the changer back into working order. Once I was able to remove it, I went to the hardware store and purchased an allen setscrew to replace it (brought the old one with me). I don't have the original setscrew to tell you what kind of head it uses. I've included a link to Wikipedia which might help. Looking through the info on Wikipedia, I don't think I saw the style on the allen screw that I had. I think the one I had might have been a rectangle drive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives#Slot


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 Post subject: Re: Issue with 1963 Zenith Belt Drive Changer
PostPosted: Feb Sun 25, 2018 3:50 pm 
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Joined: Apr Sun 16, 2017 7:57 pm
Posts: 11
SeniorSteve wrote:
I have one of the Zenith changers (slightly newer), but haven't had to remove the platter support. I did however have to pull the record sensor bar and that had a different kind of setscrew on it. I wouldn't recommend pulling yours off as that created a LOT of headaches getting the changer back into working order. Once I was able to remove it, I went to the hardware store and purchased an allen setscrew to replace it (brought the old one with me). I don't have the original setscrew to tell you what kind of head it uses. I've included a link to Wikipedia which might help. Looking through the info on Wikipedia, I don't think I saw the style on the allen screw that I had. I think the one I had might have been a rectangle drive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives#Slot


Thanks! So from your recollection, did Zenith use a non-standard screw drive head?


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 Post subject: Re: Issue with 1963 Zenith Belt Drive Changer
PostPosted: Feb Sun 25, 2018 4:14 pm 
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Joined: Feb Tue 02, 2016 2:38 am
Posts: 142
Location: Saint Paul, Minn
I'm real good at losing things, but I did find the old setscrew from the changer I had, and it does look like a square drive will work best. It's not exactly square, but a 4 cornered Bristol would be the way I can describe it. I would expect the setscrews are the same between the years of manufacturing. I do know it's a 6/32 thread. For me, it was easier to replace the setscrew than to purchase the tool to tighten it. A good hardware store should have something the correct size, (and in an allen format). Hope this helps.
Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Issue with 1963 Zenith Belt Drive Changer
PostPosted: Mar Thu 01, 2018 3:40 am 
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Joined: Feb Tue 02, 2016 2:38 am
Posts: 142
Location: Saint Paul, Minn
I was looking at your pictures and noticed that you had mentioned that you have to use the "idler push rod" in order to turn on the motor. I think something has been disconnected, that rod is only used to release the idler wheel from the motor in the "Off" position. There should be some sort of a lever or actuator that you can view that would move the switch on and off. It should work in both the auto and manual positions. From what I can see, the idler push rod does protrude through the chassis, into a hole on a lever on the top side of the chassis, which is actuated by the on/off knob. You should definitely hear the switch toggle when you turn the knob as the switch is what holds the idler push rod in a position to allow the motor to contact the idler wheel. When the turntable shuts off, the switch is what holds the rod in the position to disengage the idler wheel. I have a Photofact of the changer in one of it's newer version (tone arm is different), but the mechanics would be the same underneath. PM me if you need it.

I hope this makes sense.

Steve


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