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 Post subject: Newcomb plays 16's??
PostPosted: Jan Tue 02, 2018 4:09 pm 
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Joined: Dec Thu 14, 2017 3:42 pm
Posts: 55
I've had this in the closet for a couple of years. Works flawlessly, but I've never seen a 16 rpm record. Were these not common? I've honestly never seen one.

It's a neat little machine, I know nothing about it other than it came from a school. It's tagged as such.

It plays 16,33,45, AND 78's! Stereo tube amp, mic inputs,....what more could you ask for?

So, someone tell me 16's exist and theyre just rare or something :)


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 Post subject: Re: Newcomb plays 16's??
PostPosted: Jan Tue 02, 2018 4:38 pm 
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Joined: Dec Thu 14, 2017 3:42 pm
Posts: 55
Well tickle me elmo. Found this ebay listing.... turns out my closet gem isn't worthless.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-NEWCOM ... Sw0A9aSxC1

The description says it's a transcription player? Kinda cool.


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 Post subject: Re: Newcomb plays 16's??
PostPosted: Jan Fri 05, 2018 5:52 pm 
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Joined: Feb Wed 04, 2015 12:26 am
Posts: 666
16 2/3 rom are generally "talking books" or speech records.

That unit has a very nice amp and speakers on it.


Last edited by Artcurus on Jan Sat 06, 2018 6:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Newcomb plays 16's??
PostPosted: Jan Fri 05, 2018 7:59 pm 
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Joined: Dec Thu 14, 2017 3:42 pm
Posts: 55
I looked up a few on ebay and found some really interesting ones that would be a hoot to listen too. Old radio shows, military stuff,interviews. I used to listen to this show when I was a kid.... https://www.ebay.com/itm/THE-ALDRICH-FA ... 1434404865

I had heard that people dismantle these units for the amplifier so it must be good!


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 Post subject: Re: Newcomb plays 16's??
PostPosted: Jan Sat 06, 2018 3:13 am 
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Joined: Jan Tue 26, 2016 7:37 pm
Posts: 112
Location: Lexington, NC
Jonnyzcar wrote:
Well tickle me elmo. Found this ebay listing.... turns out my closet gem isn't worthless.
The description says it's a transcription player? Kinda cool.


By transcription they mean it will also play 16" transcription discs, which are much larger than 12" LPs. Old radio shows were originally recorded on 16" discs from the 1930's to the 1950s. Some played inside out, meaning it started near the label and worked itself out to the edge. Each side held 15 minutes at 33 1/3 rpm.

Reel-to-reel tape recorders made 16" transcriptions obsolete eventually. Transcriptions had very good sound, which is not often evident from what you hear today on OTR recordings and mp3s. I've recorded some onto tape using studio equipment and they had outstanding fidelity when the right turntable/arm/cart/needle are used.

There are over ten 50-item pages of 16" Transcriptions on eBay, but most of them are AFRS, meaning Armed Forces Radio.

I have a Newcomb very similar to yours that I bought at a school surplus auction. They're well made units.


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 Post subject: Re: Newcomb plays 16's??
PostPosted: Jan Sat 06, 2018 4:21 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 4108
Location: Boston, MA USA
16 2/3 rpm records (which were not 16 inches in diameter) were used for a time as talking books for the blind. Much broader usage was foreseen for them in 1957 when the speed was introduced on almost all turntables and phonographs but it never happened. The 16 and 78 speed selections faded away from turntable models introduced beginning in the mid 1970s.

As was stated earlier, 16 inch diameter transcription records are played at 33 rpm. However, they were not cut with microgrooves like 33 rpm LPs, but used standard grooves like 78s. So you should play them with a 78 stylus.

-David


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 Post subject: Re: Newcomb plays 16's??
PostPosted: Jan Sun 07, 2018 5:12 am 
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Joined: Dec Thu 14, 2017 3:42 pm
Posts: 55
Wow.... thanks you guys. You can't get that kind of info anywhere. Priceless.


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 Post subject: Re: Newcomb plays 16's??
PostPosted: Jan Mon 08, 2018 12:03 am 
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Joined: Sep Wed 18, 2013 7:18 pm
Posts: 102
Location: 50266
My understanding is that the 16 2/3 speed on home phonographs was introduced to support the records made for the Chrysler/CBS Highway HiFi. See (for example) http://www.imperialclub.com/Repair/Accessories/HiWay/Chrysler.htm.

There apparently was a slogan 'Bring your Highway HiFi home;' can't find an online example.


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 Post subject: Re: Newcomb plays 16's??
PostPosted: Jan Mon 08, 2018 1:25 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 2553
Location: Haledon NJ USA
htolino wrote:
My understanding is that the 16 2/3 speed on home phonographs was introduced to support the records made for the Chrysler/CBS Highway HiFi.


The Chrysler system called for a thinner stylus for a smaller groove. The more common 16 2/3 RPM records called for a regular microgroove stylus.

See:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1953-Holy-Bibl ... 0005.m1851


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 Post subject: Re: Newcomb plays 16's??
PostPosted: Jan Tue 23, 2018 1:44 pm 
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Joined: Feb Mon 06, 2012 7:24 pm
Posts: 2381
Location: Gold Country, (Stanislaus National Forest) California 95235
Jonnyzcar wrote:
I looked up a few on ebay and found some really interesting ones that would be a hoot to listen to.
You may be confusing 16 INCH (electrical or acoustic transcription) discs which this was indeed built for - and 16 RPM.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXf12mFSaJA
dberman51 wrote:
Transcription were not cut with microgrooves like 33 rpm LPs, but used standard grooves like 78s. So you should play them with a 78 stylus.
Well - not quite.

ATs and ETs are for radio shows and can have either a 2.7 mil groove (a little SMALLER than 78 size - meaning a 78 stylus will stretch it out a little bit and sound a little distorted from being a little bit too BIG) or in the later years 1.0 mil (a little bigger than stereo LP size so your 0.7 mil stereo stylus will wobble around a little bit and cause a little distortion as well from being a little bit too SMALL) having 30 mins/side instead of 15. These can usually be distinguised from having a normal LP size label vs the CD-disc size label found on the standard/2.7 mil discs.

So if your 78s and ET's sound a little fuzzy and distorted (there are no MG ATs) that may be why.

In addition to being recorded inside-out/center start - if you get long programs that cover several discs - you may find out that the odd sides are recorded normally with an edge start/outside in but the even sides will have a center start/inside out.

This is because even at 33 RPM there used to be a marked fidelity difference between the outer circumference and the inner circumference - so producers would do this so that there wouldn't be any great big jump in fidelity.

Since each side was around 15 minutes each (it's less common on the microgroove discs because numerous advances in recording and playback had been developed by then) - live concerts could be programmed to have wide range or loud passages about every half an hour or so.

Once you have the ear for detecting the format - you can never ``un-hear'' it ever again - like the little circular mark in a movie that appears every 20 minutes or so up in the top right hand corner of every film made before digital cinema - once you know about it - you can never ``un-see'' that either.

Common are the big fanfares to start off a show and the coda/finale to another piece a half an hour later so that both sections could be near the edges of their respective sides - and then doubled up at the edges of discs (one loud number outbound on an even side followed by another one inbound on the following odd side).

In addition to that - you may find a playing sequence that's a hybrid between Manual (1>2 3>4 5>6 7>8) and Automatic (1>8 2>7 3>6 4>5) to where there is no having to flip over a disc to get the other part in quick succession (1>5 2>6 3>7 4>8).

In addition to all that, a lot of ETs were recorded vertically as well so if there's no NORMAL/INVERSE switch on there - in order to hear the vertically modulated ETs properly (vs w a diffuse and directionless quality through the stereo amp and speakers) you will have to wire one in.

And yes - in addition to the 7-inch 10-inch and 12-inch mono 16 RPM records
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ckez_LJ6QDI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GknsdSmH2jQ 2-speed 45/16 player for 7-inch large hole
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRkncJuH_9c Auto Com flexidisc on a talking book player
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPVx69Uueg8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOCi2WTCbrk
Piricey Prestige Jazz series he's destroying with all his tricks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN_SercyeCU

all of which have either a 1-mil groove or a 7/10 mil stereo groove even tho the recording is mono and therefor can be played on any modern turntable with a modern stylus - including this one.

There are also stereophonic 16 RPM records as well- primarily by the Will Kennedy Dancetime Orchestra on the Dancetime label. These actually have some pretty good sound to them surprisingly.

NOTE: DO NOT PLAY SEEBURG/ROWE/CUSTOMUSIC NINE INCH DISCS ON THESE
OR THE SEVEN-INCH CHRYSLER HIGHWAY HI FI DISCS EITHER.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7bTzs9VksY

The Seeburg discs w the 2 inch extra large hole have a half mil stylus (playable on the grey Talking Book player in the flexidisc video above but not on a conventional stereo (0.7) or mono (1.0) mil stylus (being oversized by a third or double will destroy it like everybody on YouTube does who finds them in car boot or lorry bed sales or in charity shops).

The HHF discs were a QUARTER mil groove so a stereo LP stylus is THREE TIMES too big and a mono stylus is FOUR times too big - so just because it's 16 RPM don't think you can play it on anything.

_________________
2 kinds of men/tape. Low Noise/Wide Range.
LN=kind. WR=abrasive. Engineers=same thing.


Last edited by ndiamone on Jan Wed 24, 2018 3:38 am, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Newcomb plays 16's??
PostPosted: Jan Wed 24, 2018 12:09 am 
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Joined: Dec Thu 14, 2017 3:42 pm
Posts: 55
You're right, I had no idea. Thank you for the information!


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