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 Post subject: Audar Inc. P1 78rpm player/what to do about dead cartridge?
PostPosted: Jan Sun 28, 2018 8:06 pm 
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Joined: Jul Tue 28, 2009 10:52 pm
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Location: Stephenson County IL. 61032
Hey guy's. We've had this junky(beat up) old player in the basement for years. My dad got it somewhere when I was a kid and I remember it had a bad hum to it. Well, out of a "what should I work on next?" I ended up grabbing it off the shelf it's been on, to tear it apart. I've now since completely recapped the 3 tube amplifier and changed the cord. Also replaced a few resistors, oiled the motor and other points that move under the platter.

The amp seems to work fine. At minimum volume it is quiet. At max volume it has just a slight quiet hum. Silent though if I rub the steel needle and no sound if I play a record. I noticed it does buzz a bit when messing with the tone arm and even more so if I mess with the wires or touch one of the leads at the cartridge. So I believe the amp to be fine and the cartridge to be bad.

It has an Astatic 845 L40 cartridge in it. I've seen online that it is (supposedly) rebuildable, but I don't know if its worth it or not. I have read that rebuilding them can be expensive and I honestly don't want to spend much on this thing.

What are my options for replacement, and how much would it cost? I don't know any specs for the original cartridge, so at this point I have no clue what to look for.

Here's some pics of this unit.
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 Post subject: Re: Audar Inc. P1 78rpm player/what to do about dead cartrid
PostPosted: Jan Mon 29, 2018 1:30 am 
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Joined: Aug Sun 23, 2015 6:01 pm
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Location: South Jersey East of Philly
West Tech rebuilds them...runs about $55-65. Unless you want this player for sentimental reasons..probably not worth it IMHO.


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 Post subject: Re: Audar Inc. P1 78rpm player/what to do about dead cartrid
PostPosted: Jan Tue 30, 2018 5:04 am 
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Location: Stephenson County IL. 61032
hmm, yea. I don't feel its worth that. I wonder how much it'd be to rebuild myself?

How do I find out what I can replace this cartridge with? Would there be any cheaper cartridge's out there? I have seen some radios with the original 78 players that have had replacement cartridges put in. Almost bought one awhile back. That one had a replacement cartridge with a "flip" stylus on it. One side was 78, the other was LP.


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 Post subject: Re: Audar Inc. P1 78rpm player/what to do about dead cartrid
PostPosted: Jan Tue 30, 2018 11:55 am 
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Joined: Apr Mon 04, 2011 4:23 am
Posts: 690
Location: SW PA
You may be able to replace it with a more modern ceramic cartridge if the arm isn't too heavy.

Something like the Pfanstiehl P51-3 may work. The Voice of Music has them for $15.

http://thevoiceofmusic.com/catalog/part_detail.asp?PNumberBase=P51&SearchType=MfgNameCartridges&MfgName=Pfanstiehl&Categories=


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 Post subject: Re: Audar Inc. P1 78rpm player/what to do about dead cartrid
PostPosted: Jan Tue 30, 2018 3:54 pm 
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Joined: Aug Sun 23, 2015 6:01 pm
Posts: 717
Location: South Jersey East of Philly
You sill have to get the tracking weight of the arm down to about 7-9 grams to adapt any 78 cartridges that Gary has at VOM. I just went thru this dilemma with an RCA 65U 78 player, and it's just too much involved to work with that arm to get it down from 35 grams to 8 grams.


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 Post subject: Re: Audar Inc. P1 78rpm player/what to do about dead cartrid
PostPosted: Jan Tue 30, 2018 6:10 pm 
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Joined: Feb Mon 06, 2012 7:24 pm
Posts: 2381
Location: Gold Country, (Stanislaus National Forest) California 95235
Tbirdkid wrote:
It's just too much involved to work with that arm to get it down from 35 grams to 8 grams.
True. The spring tension on that to achieve less than a fourth of the weight is going to be ridiculous if you try and use the original pot metal arm on there.

There are reproduction tone arms for those made in the 60s that are cast out of aluminum instead of pot-metal and look exactly the same as the real one just half the weight or less.

If you decide to get one of these early `60s recast replications then you could put a lighter version of the same cartridge you have and be able to play the e.g. Peter Pan type 78s that were made well into the 60s as well as most of the post-war vinylite and bakelite discs without dragging up the bottom of the groove and destroying it.

Then you could even put your original or rebuilt Astatic in there and it should play fine.

Looks like a 78-only player so I wouldn't bother with a flip cartridge on that, even if you put two 78 styli in there.

Also - even with a more modern cartridge and stylus - and being able to lighten the tone arm - you really can't play any modern-era (1946-on) 78s on there because either they ar vinyl and will get destroyed after one or two plays or they are a form of bakelite and will turn white from disc material being dredged up off the bottom.

I would get the Lambda-shaped (upside down 7) nylon shank sapphire stylus if I was you that they use for the acoustic gramphone heads in place of steel or osmium needles - or at LEAST get the offset shank sapphire version of the stylus you have there (steel or osmium).

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 Post subject: Re: Audar Inc. P1 78rpm player/what to do about dead cartrid
PostPosted: Jan Wed 31, 2018 6:20 am 
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Posts: 402
Location: Stephenson County IL. 61032
Wow, thanks guy's. :D So there are some options. Hmm, not sure where I'll go with this though. $15 don't sound bad for a cartridge with a needle/styli... but then the arm needs severe modification or replacement. :|


I'm starting to think I should have just parted this out and got rid of it...
Well, i'll figure something out for it. Even if it don't play my dad still wants it. Something about using it for cleaning records. I still haven't looked into that but :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Audar Inc. P1 78rpm player/what to do about dead cartrid
PostPosted: Jan Wed 31, 2018 9:03 pm 
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Joined: Feb Mon 06, 2012 7:24 pm
Posts: 2381
Location: Gold Country, (Stanislaus National Forest) California 95235
ZackN920 wrote:
Something about using it for cleaning records. I still haven't looked into that but :roll:
Flocking will get moldy and stinky doing that and the turntable and most of the rest of it will end up rusting. Get him a normal Disc-O-Vac for his birthday for $50 and be done w it.

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2 kinds of men/tape. Low Noise/Wide Range.
LN=kind. WR=abrasive. Engineers=same thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Audar Inc. P1 78rpm player/what to do about dead cartrid
PostPosted: Feb Tue 06, 2018 6:20 am 
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Joined: Jul Tue 28, 2009 10:52 pm
Posts: 402
Location: Stephenson County IL. 61032
Huh, well that sounds like a good idea. :) Not too expensive, but do you have a link? I tried looking that up on google, and didn't find anything close to what I thought a disc-o-vac would be. :?

Oh, and this unit that the thread was about. :roll: Well, it ended up back on shelf for now. Don't know what will happen to it later, but at least it has a working amp and motor assembly in it. ....hmm... what can I do with that? :wink:

After this, I actually fixed another stand alone, table top player. One of the older school house ones with 16,33,45,78 that has a flip stylus on it. It's a transistor model, that has an inspection sticker from 1990 on it. Probably one of the last of its kind for schools. It worked fine but played slow and had little torque(could stop platter easily if a finger was layed on it). After cleaning the assembly under the platter, putting in new motor mounts(old ones were deteriorated pretty bad), and a couple small adjustments, it plays at correct speed and is hard to slow down now... Has great torque. So, my dad's happy about that. Now he has something small he can play some of his 78's on! Heck. i'll probably use it some. Though, my LP collection stays on the JVC :roll: :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Audar Inc. P1 78rpm player/what to do about dead cartrid
PostPosted: Feb Tue 06, 2018 7:01 am 
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Joined: Feb Mon 06, 2012 7:24 pm
Posts: 2381
Location: Gold Country, (Stanislaus National Forest) California 95235
Look up ``Electric Record Vacuum System'' and discount the ones for e.g. $3K and you should be able to find plenty of better (dry-vac/single-cycle) versions than the original Ronco set from the 70s for well under $70 that use the normal discwasher type fluid that's all over everywhere for 99c a tube.

The wet-vac/dual-cycle ones are better and you should be able to gat a good used one for around a C note maybe a little more vs the $3K versions you see new on the audiophile sites.

_________________
2 kinds of men/tape. Low Noise/Wide Range.
LN=kind. WR=abrasive. Engineers=same thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Audar Inc. P1 78rpm player/what to do about dead cartrid
PostPosted: Feb Tue 06, 2018 3:50 pm 
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Joined: Dec Sun 01, 2013 4:10 pm
Posts: 7109
Location: Long Island NY
Cartridge rebuilding will cost you $28.00 for the donor cartridge.
You will need some "silicone" rubber bands, rubber glove, CD case, Krazy glue, and gentle hands.

I rebuild mine but I have broken a few crystals in my time. Every broken crystal is $28.00 so you have to be careful. I have made videos and tutorials on my experiences if you search the forum.

This is where I learned to do them.

http://philcoradio.com/phorum/showthread.php?tid=1019

IF you decide to do it I have the supplies you need since I bought in bulk. A friend used Westtech and was very unhappy. It did not work right and they blamed him saying he broke it.

Kirk

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