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 Post subject: Need advice on how to ground radio
PostPosted: Mar Tue 16, 2010 2:56 am 
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I have an old Philips P145 radio that needs to be grounded. Problem is, there is nothing around to ground it to. It is in my office which is surrounded by furniture but there is no easy access to any piping or anything. Does anyone have any tips on how I can ground it?

Thank-you


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mar Tue 16, 2010 3:26 am 
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Connected a flexible insulated wire say #18 ga., black in color, of 25-35' to the ground terminal of the radio and lead it away from the radio and route along the base board or tuck under edge of carpet so no one trips over it. Tape up the end of the wire and do NOT connect to anything. The wire will become a counterpoise, in locations where no ground is possible or potentially dangerous this is a better option.

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 Post subject: Your advice
PostPosted: Mar Tue 16, 2010 4:22 am 
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Thanks Chas. I was also wondering, if I used a good power bar with surge protection, do I still need to ground the radio?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mar Tue 16, 2010 9:33 am 
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Yes, the grounding completes the antenna circuit.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mar Tue 16, 2010 12:54 pm 
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I've used the center screw on an outlet plate...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mar Tue 16, 2010 4:30 pm 
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Both suggestions have merit. A wire the same length as the antenna will serve as an "opposition".
Also, the screw on your wall outlet should be the same as system ground, but be VERY careful, this could actually carry a potential voltage in reference to the neutral, especially on a split 220 panel.
By the way, your heating or air conditioning panel should measure to ground. I use the heating duct in my 1880's building as a ground for my AM transmitter, and it works great.
Good luck.
Terry


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mar Tue 16, 2010 8:49 pm 
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grid-leak wrote:
I've used the center screw on an outlet plate...

:shock: No thank you.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mar Tue 16, 2010 9:01 pm 
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gmcjetpilot wrote:
grid-leak wrote:
I've used the center screw on an outlet plate...

:shock: No thank you.


For sure, :) , the last "electrician" in my house, grounded things buy osmosis :shock:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mar Tue 16, 2010 9:19 pm 
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glasdave wrote:
gmcjetpilot wrote:
grid-leak wrote:
I've used the center screw on an outlet plate...

:shock: No thank you.


For sure, :) , the last "electrician" in my house, grounded things buy osmosis :shock:


8) The Osmotic Induction Unit is a critical part of getting the Flux Capacitor to work. Caution when using, when not already in a seated position, this unit will knock you into that seated position at a high rate of acceleration.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mar Thu 18, 2010 3:39 pm 
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Location: Painesville, OH, United States
I live in an apartment building in which the plumbing in the units is all PVC piping, nothing metal. The nearest copper piping, according to my landlord, is in the basement directly below my apartment. I have an amateur radio transceiver that also needs a ground so that the antenna system will work as it should; I'll try the idea of using a counterpoise.

Don't try to use the ground hole of a three-wire grounded outlet to ground your radios. I read somewhere (I forget where) that, while this terminal eventually connects to ground, it goes through at least one circuit breaker on the way. If that breaker trips for any reason, the ground connection will be lost.

Kind regards,

Jeff Strieble, WB8NHV
Fairport Harbor, Ohio USA


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mar Thu 18, 2010 4:34 pm 
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These days with a properly polarized receptacle, all that's needed for a good ground is to use a polarized cord on the radios/phonos.

Properly wired to the radio, it'll ground itself.

Also, the low end of the antenna coil (or "G" connection on the back plate) should be connected to a 0.1uf to chassis.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mar Thu 18, 2010 5:11 pm 
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From what I know, the outlet ground connects directly to 'earth' with no interruptions and by modern code has to have as many interconnects in the building's overall wiring as possible. If possible, I would wire a three-wire cord into the set (I do this with my transformer sets, for example).

If that's not possible, as in some AA5 or similar sets, an antenna ground-to-(polarized line cord)neutral safety cap should do the same thing. Somewhere along the service line, there will be a direct connection between the neutral power wire and ground to complete the antenna/signal circuit.

Mike


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mar Thu 18, 2010 5:53 pm 
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The third wire or "ground" wire can NOT be interrupted anywhere in its path by a switch, fuse, circuit breaker or whatever. It absolutely has to be a continous path to ground which means it ties in with the Neutral at the service entry and goes to the service entry ground.

Any exceptions to this rule is a flagrant violation of the National Electrical Code. This is one of the most clear rules the NEC has. A lot of the other rules may be somewhat vague, but there is absolutely NO misunderstanding on this one.
Curt

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mar Fri 19, 2010 4:48 pm 
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Curt is right.
I've been studying electrical codes because there seems to be A LOT of confusion, some of it provided by me. I have found that the difference between "Ground" and "Neutral" is this:
"Ground" is the PHYSICAL, (emphasis mine) bonding of the metal components of the service system to the earth by an approved method, i.e. buried water pipe, wire or such other as dictated by NEC regulations.
"Neutral" is the "return" path of the electrical current. This is normally connected to the ground bus at the service entrance.
NEVER are either of these to be switched in any way. Wiring the neutral as "hot" could result in a lethal pathway to ground due to a fault in a device, such as a toaster or drill. Even a light socket. I'm sure everyone has felt that "tingle" when touching something metal. That indicates a faulty connection to ground.
The ground screw and 3rd wire are provided because not all raceways are metal, and this provides a guaranteed path to the service box ground terminal.
Having the ground and neutral as separate wires until coming together at the service box is to help reduce hum being induced through the house wiring.
These notes are paraphrased from Thomson's "Illustrated Guide to the National Electrical Code 3rd Edition."
I hope this helps clear the air.
Terry


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mar Fri 19, 2010 6:59 pm 
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What Terry wrote is correct but the terms can be confusing.
The NEC lists the "Neutral" as “the neutral point of a system that is intended to carry current under normal conditions.”
The “Neutral” some of the time it is thought of as the “Grounded Conductor". The reason is that not all "grounded conductors" are "neutrals" for example; a delta connected three phase system does not have a neutral winding tap but can have a “Grounded Conductor”.
The "Ground" is defined as the "Equipment Grounding Conductor".
“Equipment grounding conductors” must be bonded to metal enclosures and parts having an uninterrupted path to the earth. The “Equipment grounding conductor” may also be called “Earth” in some places.
Sorry to confuse anyone.
Pete


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mar Sat 20, 2010 12:11 am 
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modelaer wrote:
What Terry wrote is correct but the terms can be confusing. The NEC lists the "Neutral" as “the neutral point of a system that is intended to carry current under normal conditions.”
The “Neutral” some of the time it is thought of as the “Grounded Conductor". The reason is that not all "grounded conductors" are "neutrals" for example; a delta connected three phase system does not have a neutral winding tap but can have a “Grounded Conductor”.
The "Ground" is defined as the "Equipment Grounding Conductor".
“Equipment grounding conductors” must be bonded to metal enclosures and parts having an uninterrupted path to the earth. The “Equipment grounding conductor” may also be called “Earth” in some places.
Sorry to confuse anyone.
Pete


What the heck is all this bullcrap?... All the guy wants to do is ground his radio, not wire a nuclear plant.

Talk about CONFUSING!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mar Sat 20, 2010 12:29 am 
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A three wire cord makes it easy. Of course, this is easier with a radio with a transformer, or a series heater radio with a B- buss.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mar Sat 20, 2010 1:03 am 
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Repair Tech said-

"What the heck is all this bullcrap?... All the guy wants to do is ground his radio, not wire a nuclear plant.
Talk about CONFUSING"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I LOVE IT!!

Thanks for putting this thread back in perspective.

However, this only goes to show that EVERY TIME this discussion comes up-EVERY BODY has an opinion.

Mine is that I was just trying to correct some mis-information that I had unwittingly posted earlier.

I hope I accomplished that.

______________Remember____________
"There's nothing worse than being ordinary"

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Terry


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mar Sat 20, 2010 1:40 am 
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Could be a hot-chassis radio that shouldn't be grounded!

:)

(Ducking)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mar Sat 20, 2010 4:43 am 
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Jack Shirley wrote:
Could be a hot-chassis radio that shouldn't be grounded!

:)

(Ducking)


(heaves a console stereo at Jack) :shock:

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