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 Post subject: Veneer removal help please
PostPosted: Feb Mon 27, 2012 10:21 pm 
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Location: Sedona, AZ
Working on a Philco 140-145. The sides have had much missing from the original veneer . Chances of matching the wood with my skill, no way. What is the best way to remove veneer that is really well stuck down? This probably needs the whole top/sides redone with one piece. I have heard of heat, like a steam iron. I don't want to lift or separate the lower plywood structure.
Thanks for your ideas.

Jerry

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 Post subject: Re: Veneer removal help please
PostPosted: Feb Tue 28, 2012 12:57 am 
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Location: Pocasset, Cape Cod, MA
I recall a discussion on this subject here a couple of months ago.

Hide glue softens above a certain temperature and moisture level, so it can be removed with a hot iron. But, prolonged heating drives out moisture from the glue, so there's a limited working time. And I would imagine that for multiple layers of veneer, too much heat would just as easily loosen the cross-banding under the outer layer.


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 Post subject: Re: Veneer removal help please
PostPosted: Feb Wed 29, 2012 2:53 am 
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Joined: Mar Sat 28, 2009 8:27 pm
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Location: Georgia
I have had good luck lately with the following technique:
1. Get a 4 inch or so wide putty knife and REALLY sharpen it with about a 15 degree angle on one side (not both sides) of the blade.
2. Use warm water and a sponge to "massage" the veneer you plan to remove for a period of about 10 - 15 minutes.
3. Use your sharp putting knife to get under the edge of the veneer, then, use an electric heat gun to apply heat right at the point where the putty knife is and just ahead of it.

I have removed large pieces of veneer this way - just did the entire top of an RCA console.
Good Luck!!! Tom


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 Post subject: Re: Veneer removal help please
PostPosted: Feb Wed 29, 2012 3:23 am 
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Location: Sedona, AZ
Thank you all for your great ideas. I have been thinking about it for a while. I do this a lot. I believe what I will do as I have removed the flaking stuff up to about 4" from the bottom on each side with a nice straight cut off is to just back fill the cut off area with veneer and then cover the whole enchilada with new veneer. The rest is stuck down very solid. This idea was offered up by Philco Phil. Should do less damage to the plywood (than I have already done) and result in a nice new covering. Will post pictures as things proceed.

Jerry

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 Post subject: Re: Veneer removal help please
PostPosted: Feb Wed 29, 2012 4:27 am 
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Location: Tennessee,USA
Philco Phil is right. Sometimes if you have an otherwise good base, and you flatten it, just add the new veneer over the old. Saves time and does less damage to the inner layers.
If the old veneer is loose, then that's not an option.

Yes, let us see how the job comes along. I know it will come out great :)

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 Post subject: Re: Veneer removal help please
PostPosted: Mar Mon 12, 2012 6:19 pm 
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O.K. Jerry,you had 2 weeks to think about it :o -how did it turn out??
Phil

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 Post subject: Re: Veneer removal help please
PostPosted: Mar Mon 12, 2012 6:56 pm 
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Location: Sedona, AZ
I move a bit slowly, sorry I have not got back. Have Gary's labels sized, a new back made to replace the broken up one. Radio running terrific on a pair of diodes. I seemed to release the latent smoke from the 7Y4 tube socket, awaiting a replacement.
I'm not too good at applying large areas of veneer so waiting on my friend to come bye and pick it up. I have the veneer not the courage. :lol: Will provide more pictures as time goes on. Getting closer! Phil's replacement speaker is singing well.
Jerry

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 Post subject: Re: Veneer removal help please
PostPosted: Mar Tue 13, 2012 3:01 am 
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Well, on the same radio, a couple of pictures. Can someone tell me the wood of the cabinet? Look like mahogany by grain but color looks more like walnut. Also attaching a picture of my finished back cover. Couldn't find the right color to match the masonite back but it doesn't look too bad to my eyes. Thanks Gary for the photos of the stickers and to others for help. Glue is setting up on the filler piece of veneer for what was removed. I may try covering the whole back myself if I get up enough nerve. :roll:
Jerry

Image

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Veneer removal help please
PostPosted: Mar Tue 13, 2012 4:30 am 
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Jerry, it's coming along great.
I'm happy the labels worked out for you, they look amazing. The wood appear to be different shades of walnut. Front being a little more red then the top, which looks more of a yellow/brown tone. That is the replacement top veneer?

Someone can advise on the color of stian you may use to help the 2 match a little better. From the photos I have seen the top and front do match. I'd guess that adding a reddish brown stain to the top would bring the two closer. Maybe mixing stains?

On the Loktal socket, do you have one already lined up?

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 Post subject: Re: Veneer removal help please
PostPosted: Mar Tue 13, 2012 7:17 am 
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Thanks for the tips on the wood Gary. I believe the difference in color between the top and the front is that the top has had very little sanding on it and still carries some of the original stain. The front was pretty well sanded down to the wood, leaving little of the stain. The top seen in the picture is still the original wood, the "patches" were done on the two sides. Will sand the top and sides down tomorrow to get them ready for a whole new skin of walnut. Then will come the challenge of making the new veneer match the front color wise. Thanks for asking about the loctal socket, I believe I have one on the way.
Regards, Jerry

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 Post subject: Re: Veneer removal help please
PostPosted: Mar Tue 13, 2012 8:05 pm 
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Hi Jerry,
I didn't know where the patched areas were, the top looks very good from here.
Could be that when a clear was sprayed on, or a stain applied, the colors would match again when wet.

Hard to say what to use until you get the top layer of veneer back on.
New veneer is pretty thin, so there should not be that much of an edge to it.
If it is flush with the old, you'd never know.
Will check back soon :)

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 Post subject: Re: Veneer removal help please
PostPosted: Mar Wed 14, 2012 3:31 am 
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Well Gary and Phil and anyone else interested, it's getting ready for a new coat of veneer. Attached are a few pictures of where I'm at now.
I filled the removed veneer with some scraps I had. I have the same walnut in a nice piece that has a thin backing on it. Much easier to put down than the bare thin stuff. Friend will arrive on the first of next month to put the new veneer over the sides and top. Too big an area for me to work with. I'm a wimp. Will be asking for assistance in getting the right color to match the front. Actually the front seems to 3 different shades on it. A small sample of the new veneer I have is setting on the top.

Jerry

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Image

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Veneer removal help please
PostPosted: Mar Wed 14, 2012 4:11 am 
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Location: Roseville,Ca
Image

This might help Jerry,it has original finish.
Phil

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 Post subject: Re: Veneer removal help please
PostPosted: Mar Wed 14, 2012 4:23 am 
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Location: Sedona, AZ
Thanks Phil, I was really wondering about the color of the "molding" across the bottom. Mine was mostly missing so I was unsure about how it matched the rest. Looks like the station indicators for the push buttons were marked on the wood? Looks like I can see them. I thought they were drop in paper behind the metal plate. Your front looks more even in color from one wood to the other. More so than mine. Perhaps differences in wood used?

Jerry

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 Post subject: Re: Veneer removal help please
PostPosted: Mar Wed 14, 2012 4:35 am 
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Hi Jerry-it should have one of these for the tags;

http://www.radioatticarchives.com/radio.htm?radio=2031

Mine was missing also but other models used the same part.
phil

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 Post subject: Re: Veneer removal help please
PostPosted: Mar Wed 14, 2012 5:13 am 
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Location: Sedona, AZ
Thanks Phil, yes mine looks like that with the brass bezel. Color difference between the various grains really pops out at you. Surprised at the color of the lower molding on the link. Very dull looking, not at all like yours. I had to remove the little bit of the lower molding on mine as most was missing and the underlying veneer came off as well. For now it is just back filled with a few mahogany scraps I had to level things off. I have a new piece made up for the molding but waiting to see how the color comes out on the rest prior to staining/toning.
Jerry

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 Post subject: Re: Veneer removal help please
PostPosted: Mar Wed 14, 2012 8:06 am 
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Location: Tennessee,USA
Hi Jerry,
If a person was so inclined, and as you have teh sides as they are, a person could continue the front design right around to the sides. You would have to add in the strip, with the grain going vertical like the front.

You'd only need the very thin inlays on each side of the strip.

That would be a possibility, but it woudn't be as original.

Make sure the top is block sanded as level as possible. Block around the radios too, using an over the curve motion. As you know, sanding in one spot on a curve will leave a flat spot.
If your friend gets it to lay down very evenly with no air bubbles or glue accumulations, I think it's going to look very good.
I hope you can find a station tag holder. If not, there may be a way to make one from brass.
TTYL.

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 Post subject: Re: Veneer removal help please
PostPosted: Mar Wed 14, 2012 8:25 am 
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Location: Sedona, AZ
Thanks Gary, I kept looking at it and thinking, HUMM, add a strip where the pieces are joined to match the front. I did stop the veneer removal at that point as it was above the area that was missing or lifting. Then I thought no, that would not look right without doing some other inlays to match the front. More fine work than I can do. Yes, I do have the brass bezel for the preset push buttons, just removed for sanding. By the 3rd of next month, I should have the top and sides recovered. Will be back for finishing (color) ideas.

Jerry

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 Post subject: Re: Veneer removal help please
PostPosted: Apr Mon 23, 2012 5:41 am 
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Location: Sedona, AZ
Bringing this out of the dead. Yes, the radio is finished thanks to a lot of help from the forum and some very nice vendors. The radio works great, the only one in the house including "new" receivers that can get the wife's favorite Phoenix station. My friend helped (read did) put the new veneer on and helped match it with a combo of transtint stains in water. Then several coats of shellac and sanding. Then off to semigloss lacquer. New power transformer that fit perfectly under the "can" that covered the original. Thanks to so many of you for help. Philco Phil for a tube and a working speaker, Alan for the power transformer specs, well a lot of help.
Jerry

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Image

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A friend in need is a pest. Bill Slee ca 1972


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 Post subject: Re: Veneer removal help please
PostPosted: Apr Tue 24, 2012 2:36 am 
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What ..... no speaker cone trouble :o


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