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Tim Tress
Member
Joined: 01 Jan 1970
Posts: 3319
Location: Beaver Falls, PA. USA
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| Posted: May Sat 16, 2009 2:37 am |
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Doug, you forgot about Admiral's variable resistor pickup! That one had to have B+ on it to work.
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Tim KA3JRT |
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Ampico-kid
Member
Joined: 01 Jan 1970
Posts: 64
Location: Jamesburg, NJ, USA
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| Posted: May Sat 16, 2009 5:33 pm |
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| Denny Graham wrote: | What bulb are you using and did you have much of a problem with the filament position? I mean, did you have to try a bunch of bulbs to get one with the filament positioned properly? Obviously the correct (special) bulb that Philco used is no longer available. If I remember correctly a standard bulb filament didn’t line up very well and that was another one of the stumbling blocks that had to be sorted out.
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Hi Denny;
The bulb I used is the original Philco bulb (on the right). The lamp that was in the headshell was still good so I decided to use it. The bulb is rated at 3.3 volts and is a bayonet style base.
I have some #42 bulbs rated at 3.2 volts with a screw base (on the left). The main difference aside from the base style is that the #42 bulbs have the filament sitting higher above the base. The original Philco had the filament sitting closer to the base. The original also has a very short straight filament.
The #42 is not short or straight. But...with the photo cell that I used the fact that the #42 isn't short or straight shouldn't matter. The new photocell is so much smaller than the original only a very small portion of the reflected bulb filament will hit it anyway. The real issue is that fact that the #42 filament sits so much higher up in the bulb. You may have to slide the whole thing back so that it's not totally inside the lamp/lens assembly.
I can't say that I've actually tried using a different bulb...since I still have the good original Philco (actually it's a Tung Sol) lamp. But I did sort of eyeball it and check it out thinking that at some point down the road I might need to replace the lamp should it fail.
There must be lamps out there with the correct base and voltage since there are guys who rebuild these things for a living. BUT...they're not talking so it's up to us to figure it out.
Good luck...
Bob. |
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Denny Graham
Member
Joined: 01 Jan 1970
Posts: 1776
Location: Sandwich, IL, USA
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| Posted: May Sun 17, 2009 2:53 am |
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Yep, looks like we both traveled along the same lines when it comes to the bulbs. You're lucky if you have one of the original bulbs that is still good. I think that is really a critical part of the equation and that is where a lot of trouble comes from when I here the reports from others. I have no idea what could be used for a replacement. I stumbled across these at a swap meet several years ago, looks like they might just work in the BOL. http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/image/112606579
The mirror and jewel assembly is NOS.
The reason I’m looking for more than just enough to get one up and running is that I have several units. Eventually I would like to get them all working.
I still have a problem with finding a needle replacement.
As far as those “guys that rebuild these for a living” part, from all the bad stories that I have heard, I really don’t believe there is anyone that is making a living from fixing these or is restoring then correctly. Actually you are the first one that I’ve heard of, that says he actually has a BOL unit that is working and sounds good. There have been several reports over the years of people that claim they got them working but they said the quality was pretty bad.
DG |
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battery-maker
Member
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 157
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| Posted: May Sun 17, 2009 2:29 pm |
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Any chance you could do a video of it and the mystery control mechanism in operation?
I've made many a Mystery Pack for folks, but have yet to see a system working with them. 
Bill |
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Ampico-kid
Member
Joined: 01 Jan 1970
Posts: 64
Location: Jamesburg, NJ, USA
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| Posted: May Sun 17, 2009 9:35 pm |
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| Denny Graham wrote: | Yep, looks like we both traveled along the same lines when it comes to the bulbs. You're lucky if you have one of the original bulbs that is still good. I think that is really a critical part of the equation and that is where a lot of trouble comes from when I here the reports from others. I have no idea what could be used for a replacement. I stumbled across these at a swap meet several years ago, looks like they might just work in the BOL. http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/image/112606579
The mirror and jewel assembly is NOS.
The reason I’m looking for more than just enough to get one up and running is that I have several units. Eventually I would like to get them all working.
I still have a problem with finding a needle replacement.
As far as those “guys that rebuild these for a living” part, from all the bad stories that I have heard, I really don’t believe there is anyone that is making a living from fixing these or is restoring then correctly. Actually you are the first one that I’ve heard of, that says he actually has a BOL unit that is working and sounds good. There have been several reports over the years of people that claim they got them working but they said the quality was pretty bad.
DG |
I've been doing a little legwork and it looks like a #45 lamp might work. It's a 3.2volt lamp with a bayonet base. As important as the lamp is to the operation of the BOL, I think it's the photocell that will either make or break the system. As long as you can position the lamp to focus the image of the filament onto the edge of the photocell, it should work fine, but if you don't have a good correctly functioning photocell...nothing can improve the sound quality.
I've been playing around with various photo cells for some time now and found that the sound was quite poor until I was steered to this last source for the photovoltaic. It seems that the BOL system as a whole has to be in pretty darned good condition for everything to work properly together. I think I've gone through just about ALL of the various components and the associated troubles with each. Everything ages, not just the photo cell, not just the needle/mirror, and not just the needle/mirror mounting material, and not just the rubber mount on the rear of the arm, and not just the rubber mount around the lamp....but ALL of it needs attention.
If any one of these elements isn't working up to snuff...the system doesn't work well. I was lucky enough, and persistent enough to have hit the right combination.
For sure I don't pretend to be an "expert", but I do have a good understanding of the basic operation of the system and am lucky to have had access to the needed materials, and now after several years of on again off again work, I have an excellent working example.
I'm sorry that I can't offer any suggestions regarding the needle replacement. I'm hoping that the needle I use and my back-up spare will be enough to keep my BOL happy for a long time. I can say that the position of the needle is very critical to the proper operation of the system. Since you have a NOS mirror/needle assembly you'll at least have a reference to compare against should you try to make a replacement.
And as you so aptly said there really isn't anyone out there who is making a living restoring these or is restoring them correctly. I can vouch for that first hand. I initially sent my arm to be rebuilt by an "expert". It was returned not fully restored and not working properly. I then decided it would be up to me to do the job right. It might have taken a few years, but I think it was worth the wait. |
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Ampico-kid
Member
Joined: 01 Jan 1970
Posts: 64
Location: Jamesburg, NJ, USA
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| Posted: May Sun 17, 2009 10:00 pm |
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| battery-maker wrote: | Any chance you could do a video of it and the mystery control mechanism in operation?
I've made many a Mystery Pack for folks, but have yet to see a system working with them.
Bill |
Hi Bill;
I understand your curiosity. I think I was one of your first customers to purchase the Mystery Pack. I'm very happy with it and it's still going strong.
I wish I could accomodate you on this request. Nothing would make me happier than to show off this unique and wonderful curiosity. The Philco Mystery Control was the first challenge I encountered with this set. It took me the better part of two months to finally get it to function. There are so many variables involved it seems to me almost impossible to keep it up and running for any length of time. After I first aligned it (some 3+ years ago) I had a range of about 30 ft. After the first 6 months it was down to about 15 ft. and after the first year it was within 5 ft. At the present it's just barely working and I'm sure is in need of another alignment.
I'm going to pull the chassis and do that alignment, but it may be a little while. Be patient and I'll do my best to bring it back again and post a video of it in operation. It works quite well when it's working. The Mystery Control will select any one of six radio stations or the phonograph, you can eject records, raise or lower the volume, mute the volume, or turn the set off all by remote control.
Thanks for asking and I'll do my best.
Bob. |
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Tim
Member
Joined: 01 Jan 1970
Posts: 965
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: May Sun 31, 2009 5:25 am |
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Bob:
Great job with the BOL. Wondering what was the model number of the Rowe Acceptor you got and if there are any type numbers printed on the photocells. Thanks.
_________________
Tim
"One of the advantages of being disorderly is that one is constantly making exciting discoveries." A. A. Milne |
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Fred Rice
Member
Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 1248
Location: Philadelphia, PA
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| Posted: May Sun 31, 2009 11:23 am |
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Tim,
I recommended the Rowe cells to Bob as I had restored a Philco BOL model 42-1015 the same way. The cells were from a BA-5 or BA-55 dollar bill transport used from the R-81 through the R-87 model juke boxes. Both transports were the same. Only the computer board was different as the BA-55 took $1 and $5 bills, the other one took $1 only. The labeling on the front was different. Also the ones from older Rowe dollar bill change machines used the same cells but were wired different. These were made before 1987. The photo cells from newer models didn't work as well. There are probably many types out there that would work also. At the time it was a cheap and easy to get part fo me.
I spent 25 years in that business which supplied me with all sorts of unique parts for restoring radios and phonos.
_________________
Fred WA3KIO
www.wrdv.org
Your Big Band & Oldies Station
Sunday Nights at 5pm |
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Tim
Member
Joined: 01 Jan 1970
Posts: 965
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Jun Mon 01, 2009 3:24 am |
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Thanks for the info Fred. Much appreciated.
_________________
Tim
"One of the advantages of being disorderly is that one is constantly making exciting discoveries." A. A. Milne |
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Ampico-kid
Member
Joined: 01 Jan 1970
Posts: 64
Location: Jamesburg, NJ, USA
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| Posted: Nov Thu 05, 2009 2:23 am |
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I wasn't sure if I should bump this topic again, or start a new thread, but since this demo does also involve playing records on the Beam of Light changer, I decided to place it here.
I've had several requests for a working Demonstration of the Philco Mystery Control. Finally after months of trying to finish up "other projects", I actually did just that, I finished off all of my unfinished jobs. That left me no excuse and so I went ahead and realigned the Mystery Control RF section again. It's now in top form and so I went ahead and put together a Demo. of it in operation.
Here's the link:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Ampicokid30#p/a
Thanks for taking a look.
Bob |
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blacknwhite
Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 106
Location: USA
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| Posted: Nov Thu 05, 2009 4:32 am |
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SWEEE-EEE-EET!
Man, you must have the single coolest 1940's home entertainment system in the World!
Very nice. Thanks for sharing with everyone through youtube. I just pointed the folks at a 1940's Lifestyle forum to your restoration videos & pics, I know they'll get a kick out of seeing just how sophisticated the "top of the line" Philco system of that era was!
- Bob |
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45sguy
Member
Joined: 02 Dec 2008
Posts: 410
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Nov Thu 05, 2009 3:33 pm |
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That is the B E S T ! ! ! ! !
I still can't get over the fullness of the sound, and now the mystery control works perfectly!
My 8-year-old daughter thought it was fantastic, and she loved how sparkly the parts were during the change cycle. She guessed around $1000 for one of these in this shape, but I was sure it would be closer to $5000 (or more!).
Great work. There can't be many of these in perfect operation anymore.
eric |
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