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 Post subject: vm idler wheels,rock hard
PostPosted: Nov Tue 10, 2009 8:25 am 
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Joined: Jun Thu 12, 2008 3:24 am
Posts: 226
Location: shorewood illinois
hello everyone
i have 3 different zenith microtouch changers that the idler
wheels are rock hard.is there something to soften the rubber?
they are all 3 vm part# VM24428.anyone ever experience the
same with these particular idlers? they have gotten like rock hard
plastic,not a bit of softness or pliability left to them.were these
a bit harder to begin with? they arent that old,30-35 years.compared
to my other vm changers from the late 1950's where those ilders
have remained completely soft. they have never gotten like this,any suggestions on softening the rubber a bit?


thanks
joe


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Nov Tue 10, 2009 9:15 am 
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Joined: Apr Wed 09, 2008 3:37 am
Posts: 12160
Location: Little Rock, Arkansas
Order you a new idler from Gary Stork at VM.

http://www.thevoiceofmusic.com/


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Nov Tue 10, 2009 9:20 am 
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Joined: Jun Thu 12, 2008 3:24 am
Posts: 226
Location: shorewood illinois
moses_007 wrote:
Order you a new idler from Gary Stork at VM.

http://www.thevoiceofmusic.com/

thanks larry
i wanted to try something cheaper first.the console this is going
into cost me all of 20 bucks! i hate to spend 30 on an idler if i can
get away with something else first?



joe


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Nov Tue 10, 2009 10:33 am 
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Location: Little Rock, Arkansas
I know of no other option but to just replace the idler.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Nov Tue 10, 2009 12:22 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 3675
Location: Berkley, Michigan
Joe,
When the idler gets hard it not only slips, it also transfers motor hum to the turntable rim. A Micro-Touch 2/G changer is about as good as a standard V-M changer gets. Cartridges and stylus replacements are readily available.

Look at it this way. You have a $20 Zenith console turntable that doesn't work. For another $30 You will have a $50 Zenith console that does. That's less than the price of a tank of gas.

Those Zeniths look pretty classy all detailed and polished up.

_________________
That warm tube sound can usually be overcome by turning up the treble.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Nov Tue 10, 2009 12:30 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 1944
Location: OOLTEWAH,TN.
Get a rebuilt one from Ed at www.vintagelectronics.com i don't want a 30 yr. old N.O.S. SMITHY


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Nov Tue 10, 2009 2:31 pm 
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Joined: Dec Tue 02, 2008 3:10 pm
Posts: 794
Location: Ontario, Canada
I have spent between $20 and $50 trying to find "cheaper" ways to avoid paying $30. It's not possible, and not worth your time, effort, and frustration. Rubber "softening" techniques are never that reliable, and besides, the rubber has turned into a different chemical now, altogether, so you can't magically turn it back into soft rubber.

Too bad, I know, but there's no other way.

eric


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Nov Tue 10, 2009 4:29 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 15554
Location: ID 83301
You do not have to spend 30$ , you dont have to try to soften the rubber ( cant be done ) .

First see to it the wheel is nice & round even . Those can be ''re-tread'' with a new rubber belt placed around the hard existing rubber and glued on . Its nice to use a belt the same width as the original wheel tire but you can get away using a square belt .

Finding belts for this may not be easy , or go hunting and just order a few so you have extras . Cant cost that much .

When these rubber idlers were new the whole rubber tire was soft ( some more than others ) . Having the rubber nice & soft it will cussion the noise when the tire runs against the end of the motor .
Using a belt like i have done only gives a little cussion but seems to work fine here so far .

It does mae the whole idler a tiny bit bigger but that does not matter on a single tire idler ( it does on double idlers )

I have found a goolmine of rubber parts in older computer printers . Some of them had a row of big rubber tires that fed the paper . Those make perfect parts for phonos . The rubber parts used in those were machined perfect round .

I am working on a phono right now with a rock hard idler ... mid 40's airline console . I already put a flat belt around the idler . Problem solved 2$


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Nov Tue 10, 2009 7:22 pm 
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Location: Little Rock, Arkansas
Ken G wrote:
You do not have to spend 30$ , you dont have to try to soften the rubber ( cant be done ) .

First see to it the wheel is nice & round even . Those can be ''re-tread'' with a new rubber belt placed around the hard existing rubber and glued on . Its nice to use a belt the same width as the original wheel tire but you can get away using a square belt .

Finding belts for this may not be easy , or go hunting and just order a few so you have extras . Cant cost that much .

When these rubber idlers were new the whole rubber tire was soft ( some more than others ) . Having the rubber nice & soft it will cussion the noise when the tire runs against the end of the motor .
Using a belt like i have done only gives a little cussion but seems to work fine here so far .

It does mae the whole idler a tiny bit bigger but that does not matter on a single tire idler ( it does on double idlers )

I have found a goolmine of rubber parts in older computer printers . Some of them had a row of big rubber tires that fed the paper . Those make perfect parts for phonos . The rubber parts used in those were machined perfect round .

I am working on a phono right now with a rock hard idler ... mid 40's airline console . I already put a flat belt around the idler . Problem solved 2$


I'd rather spend $30 for a rebuilt idler that looks and works like a new one rather than jury rig an idler wheel with a belt or something. If these old changers are worth saving, and most of them are, they are worth the investment in a rebuilt idler wheel.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Nov Tue 10, 2009 9:14 pm 
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Joined: Jun Thu 12, 2008 3:24 am
Posts: 226
Location: shorewood illinois
Doug VanCleave wrote:
Joe,
When the idler gets hard it not only slips, it also transfers motor hum to the turntable rim. A Micro-Touch 2/G changer is about as good as a standard V-M changer gets. Cartridges and stylus replacements are readily available.

Look at it this way. You have a $20 Zenith console turntable that doesn't work. For another $30 You will have a $50 Zenith console that does. That's less than the price of a tank of gas.

Those Zeniths look pretty classy all detailed and polished up.

well you guys told me what i already knew,lol i was just hoping one of you geniuses came up with a miracle overnight.guess i gotta get intouch
with gary at VM.
thanks everyone
joe
btw here is a link to a video of the console,a work in progress.
while its not a cool 1950's console,i liked the style of this cabinet alot.
very modern looking,in an old fashioned way....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anU9Mx5uvps


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Nov Wed 11, 2009 2:45 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 15554
Location: ID 83301
Thats ok moses_ If you dont know how to fix stuff you can learn by carfully reading the threads and follow them exactly .

I fix my idlers , amplifiers and motors without having to buy new ones .


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Nov Wed 11, 2009 3:06 am 
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Joined: Jun Thu 12, 2008 3:24 am
Posts: 226
Location: shorewood illinois
Ken G wrote:
Thats ok moses_ If you dont know how to fix stuff you can learn by carfully reading the threads and follow them exactly .

I fix my idlers , amplifiers and motors without having to buy new ones .

actually its joe(me) asking,lol moses knows what he is doing,hahha
wish i knew 1/2 the stuff you guys do but i am learning thanks to all
of you


joe


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Nov Wed 11, 2009 3:21 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 6261
Location: Beaver Falls, PA. USA
I have successfully used an O-ring as a tire for a phono idler, in a 1940 Zenith; it worked fine! This only can be done with the idlers which are metal, with a rubber tire on them.

_________________
Tim KA3JRT


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Nov Wed 11, 2009 4:00 am 
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Joined: Jan Sun 25, 2009 12:19 am
Posts: 1615
Location: Ohio
If that's the small edged VM idler I'm thinking of, you'll never put a ring on it and get it to sound right. Some of those have a very small edge for 3 or 4 speed selection and it has to be small to ride the tiered motor shaft. I've seen some real "works of art" :roll: when it comes to people trying to rig an idler to make it work. I've seen everything from rubber bands to plastidip to foam glued to the sides of idlers. 9 times out of 10, they are worthless. I'm not saying it can't be done. Larry hit the nail on the head. Spend the $30 and have a brand new idler with no worries and good sound without any wow or flutter.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Nov Wed 11, 2009 7:46 am 
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Posts: 12160
Location: Little Rock, Arkansas
chompo7 wrote:
Ken G wrote:
Thats ok moses_ If you dont know how to fix stuff you can learn by carfully reading the threads and follow them exactly .

I fix my idlers , amplifiers and motors without having to buy new ones .

actually its joe(me) asking,lol moses knows what he is doing,hahha
wish i knew 1/2 the stuff you guys do but i am learning thanks to all
of you


joe


Well I certainly know a little about RCA changers. Other brands, I don't know how well I'd do. But I expect all these 50s vintage changers are very similar in how they work.

Joe, you learn this stuff by working with it every day. I've made it my full time hobby, and for the past 18 months, I have been buying record players, totally restoring them, enjoying them for awhile, then selling them on eBay. Certain players you get tired of after awhile, and as you get more involved in the hobby, your taste changes. I started out just loving and adoring the little 45 players, and I was buying them regularly. At one time I had a total of 18 RCA 45rpm players that I had totally restored here in the house. I ran completely out of room to display all of them, so I decided to start selling them. I now only have two 45 players left, a blonde 7HF45 New Orthophonic and a high fidelity bakelite 45HY4. I got interested in the multi-speed New Orthophonics, and presently have four of them. Three are console sets. If I find any more console sets to bring home, I'll be setting a love seat or couch out by the curb. :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Nov Wed 11, 2009 4:39 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 15554
Location: ID 83301
If that's the small edged VM idler I'm thinking of, you'll never put a ring on it and get it to sound right.

You have to remember i have been at this 40 years and can re-tread any idler that is still round and get it to work just as good as a 30$ rebuilt one .
The ones where the tire part simply comes off i replace the whole tire with new rubber , easy . The ones that dont come off such as many of the RCA 45 changers i re-tread . Been doing it for years .

If those 30$ rebuilt idlers were 10 and 15$ i would buy one for every phono i restore . 30$ + shipping , what 35 - 40$ just to much for most phonos .


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