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 Post subject: Philco D10A phonograph from 47-1230 console
PostPosted: Aug Tue 23, 2005 6:40 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 606
Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
Hi:<BR>After a LOT of frustration, and replacement of most parts under the chassis, I have got a really nice sounding AM/SW/FM radio. NOW I tackle the phonograph. I place my stoboscope on the turntable, turn it on and much to my surprise, it's DEAD ON 78 RPM! However, the audio from the needle/cartridge is low and muffled sounding. Riders vol 18 has the complete info on this phonograph, including the Philco part number for the needle ( 35-2638) and the cartridge (35-2643). As I was looking at how to remove it from the tone arm, I spy a neatly printed warning on the side of the tone arm: DO NOT REMOVE OR REPLACE NEEDLE. I am a bit confused. Why would Philco list a part number AND a replacement procedure for an item that is not to be replaced? If it is OK to replace it, does anyone have either a needle and/or a cartridge they would like to sell? Hope someone can enlighten me. Many thanks in advance.<BR>Jerry<P>------------------<BR>


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 Post subject: Philco D10A phonograph from 47-1230 console
PostPosted: Aug Tue 23, 2005 6:52 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 8222
Location: Toledo, Ohio
Jerry, shouldn't be any trouble removing the cartridge from the tone arm. Probably just 2 small screws holding it in.<P>Cartridge is probably a crystal style which will more than likely be no good. There are places that rebuild them, Syl comes to mind and he also has a procedure how to rebuild them if you feel adventerous.<P>------------------<BR>Jim <BR>------------------------<BR>Who was first to see a white thing come out of a chickens rear and say "That ought to taste good!"


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 Post subject: Philco D10A phonograph from 47-1230 console
PostPosted: Aug Tue 23, 2005 4:53 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 3008
Location: Québec!
Jerry,<P>Philco parts numbers don't help me much. Do you have a picture of the tone arm and phono cartridge. I suspect it is the one with a little lever that protrudes from the tone arm head to rock it for selecting the correct stylus when playing 45/LP and 78s. This cartridge is simply slipped and "clipped" inside the tone arm. If that is the one, I don't restore these, too much work and no one wants to pay double for the work. <P>Keep me posted. But I think I may have a solution/replacement that may work if your cart is what I think it is.<P>Syl<P>------------------<BR>Try my search page: <A HREF="http://www.oldradioz.com/temp/AdvSearch.html<P>Free" TARGET=_blank>http://www.oldradioz.com/temp/AdvSearch.html<P>Free</A> shcematics and more:<BR>http://www.oldradioz.com


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 Post subject: Philco D10A phonograph from 47-1230 console
PostPosted: Aug Tue 23, 2005 9:03 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 2848
Location: Ga
I have a 46-1209 which has the same turntable and at one time had two 46-1209's and a two spare parts phono units. Philco used more than one type of cartridge for the D10/D10A. One of the types had a guard just in front of the needle that was curved, another had a different guard with a curved type needle and the other had a straight type steel needle that had a twist knob/stop that on the bottom of the cartridge that was adjusted in case the tone arm was dropped the knob/stop would protect the needle from damage. One was a crystal type and one was a magnetic type, mine also has the decal on the side of the tone arm. I think Syl and other can rebuild these and they are simple to take out. The arm is held on the swivel by a pivot screw and loosen that and the complete arm comes off. There would be a braided shield cable with two leads going to your cartridge, the braid is soldered to a hold down clamp and the two connections can be unsoldered and the cartridge removed (two screws if my memory is correct). They can be rebuilt (which I plan to do with mine) and the mechanism is a sturdy unit. The 46-1209/47-1230 are basically the same with the exception of FM for the 1230. Nice cabinets, solid performance from an 8 tube unit (1209) and the 1230 has 9 I think, 1 extra tube for the FM circuit. Also check to see if the connections to your "matching transformer" is clean. The magnetic cartridges had a matching transformer to match the imput signal, this is located below the door hinge on the right base area on the inside if you are looking from the back.<BR> Syl, it only had one needle and it couldn't be changed basically if you looked at it from the side in normal position the needle mounted vertically, I will take a picture of both type of mounts/cartridges and post them.<P>------------------<BR>


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 Post subject: Philco D10A phonograph from 47-1230 console
PostPosted: Aug Tue 23, 2005 10:01 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 3008
Location: Québec!
Old Radioz wrote:
<font>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 49Stude63:<BR><B> Syl, it only had one needle and it couldn't be changed basically if you looked at it from the side in normal position the needle mounted vertically, I will take a picture of both type of mounts/cartridges and post them.<P></B><HR>
<P>Great !<P>This sure doesn't sound like the _only_ cartridge I don't rebuild anymore.<P>Keep me posted.<P>Syl<P><P>------------------<BR>Try my search page: <A HREF="http://www.oldradioz.com/temp/AdvSearch.html<P>Free" TARGET=_blank>http://www.oldradioz.com/temp/AdvSearch.html<P>Free</A> shcematics and more:<BR>http://www.oldradioz.com


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 Post subject: Philco D10A phonograph from 47-1230 console
PostPosted: Aug Tue 23, 2005 10:34 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 85
Location: Sechelt. British Columbia. Canada
Jerry:<BR> You may have better luck looking for a generic replacement ceramic cartridge and stylus. My Astatic cross reference books cross your 35-2643 cartridge to an Astatic 12u cartridge. Your needle # 35-2638 crosses to an Astatic N4-3s.<BR> You can go to the Astatic web site to try and find pictures that resemble your stuff. The site can be hard to navigate though. I have neither of your wants in my stock.<BR> Hope this has been of some help.<BR>Jim C <A HREF="http://www.rmscomanagement.ca/canadianastatic/index.htm#Brand%20Names" TARGET=_blank>http://www.rmscomanagement.ca/canadianastatic/index.htm#Brand%20Names</A> <P>------------------<BR>


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 Post subject: Philco D10A phonograph from 47-1230 console
PostPosted: Aug Tue 23, 2005 11:32 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 2848
Location: Ga
Buglip the N4-3s looks like the second type crystal/ceramic with the curved needle. If that is what he has then K9AF would not also have the "matching" transformer since the voltage output from the magnetic had to be boosted but the ceramic needle did not. The N3-2s looks like the other type that I mentioned. And Syl when I said it couldn't be changed I meant that it couldn't be flipped to 33/45 then over to 78. Hopefully it can be changed/replaced since I need to have mine replaced.<P>------------------<BR>


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 Post subject: Philco D10A phonograph from 47-1230 console
PostPosted: Aug Wed 24, 2005 12:53 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 3008
Location: Québec!
Old Radioz wrote:
<font>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by K9AF:<BR><B>Philco part number for the needle ( 35-2638) and the cartridge (35-2643). Jerry<P></B><HR>
<P>I think I'm getting old, didn,t find the Philco cross-reference the first time. It is indeed an L-12, got 3 on the bench right now under restoration process. It uses a bend shank stylus. Available either in sapphire or Osmium.<P>Actually, it can be replaced with just about any type similar to the L-12 with an aluminium body or metal body with a 3V output. The Shure W-40 comes to mind. Very common cartridge. Sorry if I missed that.<P>Syl<BR><P>------------------<BR>Try my search page: <A HREF="http://www.oldradioz.com/temp/AdvSearch.html<P>Free" TARGET=_blank>http://www.oldradioz.com/temp/AdvSearch.html<P>Free</A> shcematics and more:<BR>http://www.oldradioz.com


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 Post subject: Philco D10A phonograph from 47-1230 console
PostPosted: Aug Wed 24, 2005 5:21 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 2848
Location: Ga
Syl here are the part numbers for the D-10A. needle 35-2638 and D-10A pickup unit is 76-1622 and D-10 cartridge 35-2643 and D-10 needle 35-2644. The D-10A tone arm is squarish shaped with a removable headshell the D-10 is more rounded toward the rear pivot area and the headshell is integrated<P>------------------<BR>


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 Post subject: Philco D10A phonograph from 47-1230 console
PostPosted: Aug Wed 24, 2005 7:34 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 3008
Location: Québec!
Old Radioz wrote:
<font>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 49Stude63:<BR><B>Syl here are the part numbers for the D-10A. needle 35-2638 and D-10A pickup unit is 76-1622 and D-10 cartridge 35-2643 and D-10 needle 35-2644. They D-10A tone arm is squarish shaped with a removable headshell the D-10 is more rounded toward the rear pivot area and the headshell is integrated<P></B><HR>
<P>Look in your email. <P>Best,<BR>Syl<P>------------------<BR>Try my search page: <A HREF="http://www.oldradioz.com/temp/AdvSearch.html<P>Free" TARGET=_blank>http://www.oldradioz.com/temp/AdvSearch.html<P>Free</A> shcematics and more:<BR>http://www.oldradioz.com


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 Post subject: Philco D10A phonograph from 47-1230 console
PostPosted: Aug Wed 24, 2005 8:29 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 606
Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
Many thanks for all the replies. I believe I made an error on the listing of the Philco part number for the CARTRIDGE. It SHOULD be 76-1622. For those of you who have access to Riders it is in Vol 18, Philco Rcd Ch Pg 18-9. The picture in the upper left corner of page 18-9 is the same tone arm, cartridge and needle that I have. My set's needle is very worn, and does not stay aligned in its hole in the cartridge. It still plays a bit, as I orginally said, but the out put is low and muffled. Is THIS cartridge available either as NOS or can it be rebuilt?<BR>Thanks to all<BR>Jerry<P>------------------<BR>


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 Post subject: Philco D10A phonograph from 47-1230 console
PostPosted: Aug Wed 24, 2005 4:22 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 3008
Location: Québec!
Old Radioz wrote:
<font>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by K9AF:<BR><B>Many thanks for all the replies. I believe I made an error on the listing of the Philco part number for the CARTRIDGE. It SHOULD be 76-1622. For those of you who have access to Riders it is in Vol 18, Philco Rcd Ch Pg 18-9. The picture in the upper left corner of page 18-9 is the same tone arm, cartridge and needle that I have. My set's needle is very worn, and does not stay aligned in its hole in the cartridge. It still plays a bit, as I orginally said, but the out put is low and muffled. Is THIS cartridge available either as NOS or can it be rebuilt?<BR>Thanks to all<BR>Jerry<P></B><HR>
<P>How do you expect me to help if you do not supply the correct information ? [grin]<P>Seriously, if you can't ind the right stylus, I can probably make one. Try Ed Saunders: ed@ewsaunders.com he may be able to help, he's got fast and good service.<P>Otherwise keep me posted, I'll see if I can help. There is at least two of you guys looking for that stylus.<P>I doubt it has to be rebuilt (I can help if that is the case). Probably just a matter of installing a new stylus.<P>Syl<P>------------------<BR>Try my search page: <A HREF="http://www.oldradioz.com/temp/AdvSearch.html<P>Free" TARGET=_blank>http://www.oldradioz.com/temp/AdvSearch.html<P>Free</A> shcematics and more:<BR>http://www.oldradioz.com


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 Post subject: Philco D10A phonograph from 47-1230 console
PostPosted: Aug Wed 24, 2005 7:57 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 2848
Location: Ga
K9AF I commented to Syl via email that I have the Philco service manual for the changer and also a service supplement that covers some issues with the needle and needle guards. One of the changers (my original one) has a headshell with the decal "do not replace" on it but it has a regular straight steel needle in it. The supplement mentions two types of curved needles with either a sapphire or diamond embedded on the end (as early versions) then it later pointed to what is called an offset needle (was the later version) which is almost L shaped and on the leg of the L it has a sapphire or diamond (not sure which) mounted. If you can describe the shape of the needle in your phono at the present time that would help also. If you needle is straight and appears to be steel then it is like one of the heads that I have, normally the magnetic cartridge does not go bad, from comments by several people, except for a small rubber dust boot, if the needle is slighlty curved with the curve being in the direction of the record rotation then you have one of the second types and if you look at it and it appears to have a right angle bend (L in reverse) then it is the later type.<P>------------------<BR>


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 Post subject: Philco D10A phonograph from 47-1230 console
PostPosted: Aug Wed 24, 2005 11:39 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 606
Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
49 Stude<BR>Yes, what remains of the needle in my cartridge is indeed bent in a dog-leg, just about 90 degrees. There appears to be a small tip on the short bent portion, which I assume is a sapphire. The longer portion of the L which insets into the cartridge, has its end slightly flattened. I assume also this is to hold the needle in place in the cartridge. The rubber boot into which the needle is inserted appears to be in good condition. Does this help identify which one I have? Many thanks<BR>Jerry<P>------------------<BR>


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 Post subject: Philco D10A phonograph from 47-1230 console
PostPosted: Aug Thu 25, 2005 12:03 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 2848
Location: Ga
K9AF you have the later version (as it was called in the supplement and you should have a needle guard, either a adjustable knurled type screw that was located on the bottom cartridge bracket(later style) or a spring metal type guard in front of the needle (earlier style), I don't know why the decal says do not replace (I think it may have been a left over head shell) since you have the later replacable style needle which comes out by pulling on it with your fingers or by using tweezers on the shank portion of the needle(as mentioned in the supplement). So don't worry about what the decal says, the bigger worry is finding a needle/stylus for it but the cartridge should be good and make sure the guard is not adjusted too low or that may prevent the needle from tracking the record properly.<P>------------------<BR>


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 Post subject: Philco D10A phonograph from 47-1230 console
PostPosted: Aug Thu 25, 2005 12:11 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 606
Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
49Stude<BR>Yes, mine HAS the knurled screw emerging from the bottom of the cartridge. I have one concern, however. When I removed the old needle, it came out quite easilly. When I reinserted it in the cartridge, should I feel some 'click', or at least a bit of resistance, indicating the needle is properly seated? I do NOT with the old needle. Once inserted into the cartridge, the needle turns on the longer axis of the L VERY easilly.<P>------------------<BR>


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 Post subject: Philco D10A phonograph from 47-1230 console
PostPosted: Aug Thu 25, 2005 3:09 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 2848
Location: Ga
No click, on step 7 it says to "grasping the needle with the fingers insert the blunt end into the small hole in the rubber washer, Gently move the needle around until the hold at the apex of the cone is located. Watch the needle as it is pushed through, to be sure the shaft is parallel to the front of the reproducer then gently push the needle straight into the hole in the rubber pivot. Step 8, after seating the needle in the rubber pivot bearing with the fingers (very light pressure) grasp the needle by the shank with tweezers or long nose pliers and further seat the needle in the bearing. Care should be exercised to avoid placing any pressure on the needle point, since this could cause the needle foot to bend. When the arm is on the record there should be 0.020" between the record and the needle guard (knurled knob)<P>------------------<BR>


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 Post subject: Philco D10A phonograph from 47-1230 console
PostPosted: Aug Thu 25, 2005 7:59 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 2768
Location: Northport wa. USA.
I have a NOS Philco part #45-1844 cartridge that says on the box it fits M-4/D10-A phono's. The rubber still is flexible and still has the gaurd over the needle. The only thing I see missing is one mounting screw. It is something I will never use, and is priced right. You pay shipping.<P>------------------<BR><BR>


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