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 Post subject: 78 RPM Phonograph needle question
PostPosted: Aug Tue 16, 2005 4:25 am 
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Posts: 7449
I have an idea that I want to try and wonder if anyone else has had any success at it.<BR>I have a package of needles for my 78 RPM record player, on the package it says, "Plays 15 to 20 Records".<BR>What I want to do, is attach a modern Diamond, or Saphire needle to an old needle to extend the playing time of the records to more modern playing cycles. Maybe somewhere around 400 to 500 records per needle.<BR>What type epoxy would do the job, or what Ideas would anyone suggest to accomplish my goal? <BR>Do they make a needle, that is already diamond or saphire, that costs under $10.00 or so ?<BR>I'm cheap. A needle like I describe souldn't cost more that $5.00. I don't want to get gouged.<BR>I'm the original DIY guy.<BR>Before I'll pay full retail price for anything, it better be something like an artificial heart valve, or something similar, or i'll make it myself. Even if it was a heart valve, at least I would want to look at one before I opened my Checkbook.<BR>Who knows I might have one laying around that can be cleaned up.<BR>When I converted my pick up arm to peizo, I didn't buy a new one and strip it out. I took the one from my kids record player and told them it's no good any more, go watch television, and on your way to the family room, bring me that box of Sinatra records.<BR> <BR>Dan <P><BR>------------------<BR>


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 Post subject: 78 RPM Phonograph needle question
PostPosted: Aug Tue 16, 2005 4:33 am 
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Location: Warren, MI, USA 48093-6744 N42.50973 W83.02633
Well, you could always talk to your local jeweler. I am sure that in jewelery, there are many times that small stones are used that are too small to mount using prongs. They may even be able to come up with tiny diamonds that would work for what you want.<P>Your chances of success are directly dependent on how cooperative the jeweler is. If you cannot find one who is cooperative, it will make it harder for you. <P>------------------<BR>It's not just a radio, it's history you can use!<BR>---<BR>Wenn Wellen schwingen, ferne Stimmen singen.<BR>When airwaves swing, distant voices sing.


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 Post subject: 78 RPM Phonograph needle question
PostPosted: Aug Tue 16, 2005 4:43 am 
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Posts: 1546
Location: Illinois
Hi, Dan,<P>You need to do some research on 78rpm needles. Having somebody epoxy a diamond or saphire tip onto an old needle is not the answer.<P>To properly work, the needle has to have the correct width, etc.<P>I think most people use steel needles for 78rpm. What are yours? Cactus or steel?<P>The best answers may not be available on this forum.<P>------------------<BR>Doug Criner <A HREF="http://www.enginova.com" TARGET=_blank>http://www.enginova.com</A>


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 Post subject: 78 RPM Phonograph needle question
PostPosted: Aug Tue 16, 2005 4:52 am 
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Posts: 3008
Location: Québec!
Old Radioz wrote:
<font>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by panther:<BR><B> What I want to do, is attach a modern Diamond, or Saphire needle to an old needle to extend the playing time of the records to more modern playing cycles. Maybe somewhere around 400 to 500 records per needle.<BR> <BR>Dan <P></B><HR>
<P>Email me. I make my own sapphire damped stylus for 78s. I'll walk you through.<P>Syl<P><P>------------------<BR>Try my search page: <A HREF="http://www.oldradioz.com/temp/AdvSearch.html<P>Free" TARGET=_blank>http://www.oldradioz.com/temp/AdvSearch.html<P>Free</A> shcematics and more:<BR>http://www.oldradioz.com


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 Post subject: 78 RPM Phonograph needle question
PostPosted: Aug Tue 16, 2005 7:31 am 
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Location: Perrysburg, OH, U.S.A.
Doug,<P>That's the first I've heard of cactus neeldles. My father told me once that people would whittle there own needles from mahogany. <P>Syl,<P>Do you supply the Sapphire needles for Victrolas? I have a VV-50 portable that's going to get refurbed when I get a round tuit.<P>John<P>------------------<BR>Nothing difficult is ever easy, but it is often worthwhile.


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 Post subject: 78 RPM Phonograph needle question
PostPosted: Aug Tue 16, 2005 7:59 am 
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Cactus needles, I live in the desert, I have cactus needles coming outta my butt.<BR>Dan<P>------------------<BR>


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 Post subject: 78 RPM Phonograph needle question
PostPosted: Aug Tue 16, 2005 8:40 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 518
Location: Holland, MI
I admit limited knowledge, but have some experience with trying different needles in various types of players. Syl can correct me on this no doubt, but from my own experience you should forget the idea of using anything but a steel or fiber needle with a Victrola. A diamond tipped shank in an acoustic reproducer will ruin the record on the first play--and that play won't sound good! Believe me, I learned the hard way. <P>It wasn't until after the war that lighter weight tonearms started showing up. Those immediate postwar turntables are fitted with cartridges that take diamond needles with a shank the same diameter as plain steel needles, but the set-screw is not brought out to the front of the arm as seen in the prewar electronic record players. That would seem to be the best indicator as to which type of needle should be used with any given player: if the set-screw is accessible, then the needle was meant to be changed frequently, and the arm is probably too heavy to use a gem. If the set-screw is accessible only by removing the cartridge, then it was meant to be "permanent" though you might consider using a saphire. Though they don't last nearly as long as a diamond, they're considerably gentler on the records. <P>------------------<BR>It's updated! <A HREF="http://tvontheporch.com" TARGET=_blank>http://tvontheporch.com</A> Pop-up/banner free!


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 Post subject: 78 RPM Phonograph needle question
PostPosted: Aug Tue 16, 2005 6:11 pm 
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Whether it is advisable or not, it is possible to epoxy a stylus to a steel shaft using JB Weld. Do not use the quick set kind, but the regular. You will need a way to secure both pieces and hold them in the correct position for several hours.<P>------------------<BR>Audio Antiques<BR>Midlothian, TX<BR>http://home.flash.net/~lfscott/


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 Post subject: 78 RPM Phonograph needle question
PostPosted: Aug Tue 16, 2005 8:23 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
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Location: Cleona, PA
Early records were made with a slightly abrasive formula, and the idea was that the steel needle, weighed down by the relatively heavy reproducer head, and later the heavy early electric pickups, would be worn down by the record during play until it was time to change the needle. I have seen some records marked "Use Steel Needles. Change Needle Every Time." Move a magnet all around the turntable area of one of these record players and see all the filings you pick up!<P>Reece <P>------------------<BR>


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 Post subject: 78 RPM Phonograph needle question
PostPosted: Aug Tue 16, 2005 8:42 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 4853
Location: La Porte, IN, USA
Off just a bit, but I remember about 15 years ago buying a modified (modern) magnetic cartridge with saphire or diamond stylus of proper size for playing 78's installed from a guy by mail. Installed it in an old 3 speed stereo turntable so I could play 78's for copying onto tape.<BR>Don't remember the fella's name or address anymore, but it worked very well indeed. I still have the setup.<P>------------------<BR>OZ


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 Post subject: 78 RPM Phonograph needle question
PostPosted: Aug Tue 16, 2005 9:19 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 10684
Location: Valley City ND USA
What about the tungs-tone (spelling) that were said to give many plays before replacement was necessary. Made by Edison or Victor I think? Snake oil?<P>------------------<BR>terry h


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 Post subject: 78 RPM Phonograph needle question
PostPosted: Aug Tue 16, 2005 9:30 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 184
Location: Ottumwa, IA. USA
Edison DD have a diamond needle, Victor made the Tungs-Tone needles. Edison DD are vertical cut records and Victor are Lateral cut records.<P>Regards<BR><P>------------------<BR>Larry


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 Post subject: 78 RPM Phonograph needle question
PostPosted: Aug Tue 16, 2005 9:32 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 7449
I've seen some modern cartridges, that have a stylus, that flips, one side say 33/45,the other side says 78,what are these.<BR>Don't answer 2 sided needles or I'll come through the phoneline...<P>Dan<BR><P>------------------<BR>


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 Post subject: 78 RPM Phonograph needle question
PostPosted: Aug Tue 16, 2005 9:44 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 518
Location: Holland, MI
Two si...er, well, prolly diamond. I wouldn't say "some"; jillions of three (and four) speed turntables were fitted with flip needles for over a quarter century.<P>EDIT: A later odd variation of the flip needle was configured with a .7 mil stereo needle on one side and a 1 mil mono (LP and 45) needle on 'tuther. Frustrating to get one of those as a replacement when it wasn't what you wanted.<BR>------------------<BR>It's updated! <A HREF="http://tvontheporch.com" TARGET=_blank>http://tvontheporch.com</A> Pop-up/banner free!


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 Post subject: 78 RPM Phonograph needle question
PostPosted: Aug Tue 16, 2005 10:28 pm 
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Posts: 408
Location: Scotch Plains, NJ, USA
I was told by an antique phonograph expert that you should only use steel needles on the old 78 RPM records (except the special Edison diamond records).<P>Also, as hard as it is for me to actually do this, you are only supposed to use most diamond needles two or three times (plays) before replacing.<P>------------------<BR>


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 Post subject: 78 RPM Phonograph needle question
PostPosted: Aug Tue 16, 2005 10:43 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 1034
Have to be careful when ordering the flip over type that you get the correct type for you phono. Most of the later versions were for 33/45 rpm records only. One side would be diamond and the other saphire or both sides may be diamond. The DS and DD as part of the part number indicated whether it was a diamond/saphire or diamond/diamond stylus. Since most of the phonos we deal with have 78 rpm as one of the speeds, the one side of the flip over stylus should be for 78 rpm records. These have a 3 mil and .7 mil stylus.<P>------------------<BR>Audio Antiques<BR>Midlothian, TX<BR>http://home.flash.net/~lfscott/


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 Post subject: 78 RPM Phonograph needle question
PostPosted: Aug Tue 16, 2005 10:50 pm 
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Location: Ga
As far as I remember the double sided 3/4 speed changers were for playing records made out of the more modern type of materials uses in the 50's and later. Many were marked 78/33-45 some said DS/DD and other LP/mono. 78 was a beast of it's own because of the size of the grooves.<P>------------------<BR>


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 Post subject: 78 RPM Phonograph needle question
PostPosted: Aug Tue 16, 2005 10:56 pm 
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Location: Valley City ND USA
Hi Gang, I think panther may have been makeing reference to pickups where the whole cartridge flips, not just the needle?<P>Tungs-tone last longer?<P>------------------<BR>terry h


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 Post subject: 78 RPM Phonograph needle question
PostPosted: Aug Tue 16, 2005 11:47 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 518
Location: Holland, MI
The V-M 950 changer, omnipresent in the early 50s, was usually fitted with a cartridge which flipped. A lever extended through to the front of the arm. There were also 950s with fixed cartridges for use with all-speed needles. I have one of those changers. I used to have a first-generation stereo V-M console that used the tiny plug-in cartridges. When the needle wore out, you replaced the whole cartidge, that was how it was designed and all you could do.<P>------------------<BR>It's updated! <A HREF="http://tvontheporch.com" TARGET=_blank>http://tvontheporch.com</A> Pop-up/banner free!


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