Amish fireplace heaters - a "breakthrough" ??

[Tom Albrecht]

Hopefully none of you have fallen for the product being pushed in full-page ads in USA Today for the past several days.

They're advertising "Amish" fireplaces with artificial flames, and among the claims is that these things will save you money on heating because they're "so efficient."

If you use one of these things for heat, you'll be paying more for that heat than ever before. It's just plain old electric heat -- the most expensive way to heat.

Here's a forum discussion where they've got it straight (just scroll to bottom of page; no need to sign in): http://www.thestuccocompany.co ... 28952-.htm

It's also rather surprising to see these things being advertised as "Amish" since if you read the fine print, it's pretty clear that at least the heating unit (and the fake flame gizmo) comes from China. Apparently the "Amish" connection is that you can buy a real wood Amish-crafted mantel to go around the heater, and then you actually get the heater for free. Which gives you a clue that the mantel is probably pretty pricy.

I'm surprised that most of the Amish aren't up in arms about this. It's a real misuse of their name and culture. The Amish I know aren't big into electric heat.

If you actually bought one of these things and intend to use it for heat (as opposed to just watching fake flames), take it back. I would be surprised if there isn't a class-action lawsuit against these things in the near future. Pretty brazen case of misleading advertising.

No, I didn't buy one.
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Tom K6VL

[jgj6331]

Tom,

I saw those ads too and it was obvious they were rife with deception. The pictures, layout and 'something for free' scheme were just a bit over the top. Since the Amish eschew modern technology, perhaps they haven't read, heard or seen their creed being used to deceive...... that - and the fact they tend to avoid conflicts anyway....
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JG Jackson "Uva Uvam Videndo Varia Fit"

[y2k Bruce]

These same fella's ran a full page ad down here in the Tampa paper recently.

I had to reread the text a few times and finally figured out the 'fireplace' is made overseas and the wood mantle/box thing is what's amish. I can't comment on the cost or quality of it.

Bruce

[JAYoung]

Since the Amish live off the grid, I don't know what they'd plug it in to.
The Web site photo at http://www.heatsurge.com looks suspiciously Photoshopped.

[terry h]

Hi, Paul Harvey was hawking some kind of heater with extravagant claims. Sandi was interested. I checked the website, and finally found the specs and price. Price beyond comprehension, and I get more heat out of the bottom oven on our kitchen stove. Normal.

[bgadow]

Our local paper has been running that ad on pretty much a weekly basis. Reading the whole thing had me laughing out loud. I like the way that you can get the heater for free if you buy the mantle but if you just want the heater alone it costs something like $200.

I would not trust somebody just because they were Amish. I know of some of them who are less than straightforward. I do know of an Amish auction house and they will not sell anything that runs on electric or has rubber tires.

A lot of people are being suckered by electric heater gimmicks now. There is the Eden Pure that Paul Harvey sells, and is in the papers; also a portable baseboard heater that I've seen advertised. Nothing new, save for maybe some extra insulation on some models so your kids and the cat can sit on top. (big selling point, apparently?) The big money saving idea seems to be that they are space heaters so you should just carry the heater to whatever room you enter and just heat that space and turn off your furnace. Somebody is laughing all the way to the bank. Nothing against electric heat-if electricity was cheap it would be the only way to go.

[vitanola]

Nothing wrong with space heating1

We live in a 4400 sqft victorian here in Michigan, on a VERY limited income, these days, and could not afford to heat this house at all were it not for the array of space heaters with which it has been equipped. Depending on the room, we use coal, wood, radiant natural gas (those antique units from the 1910 era, very economical, really) and even ancouple of radiant electric heaters (those old "Sunbowl "units from the 1920's, 660 watts of heat concentrated just where it is needed).

Doing this we have cut our heating costs from $2,500/month down to less than $500.00/month, in the dead of winter.

It is a bit more trouble, but well worth it, for we could otherwise not afford to leve at all!

[Tom Albrecht]

As long as people understand that space heating instead of whole house heating is the objective, I have no problem with people buying and using these kinds of things.

The ad, however, is very deceptive and makes no attempt to explain the situation.

Bottom line is that electric heat, whether used for whole house heating or space heating, is two or three times more expensive than gas heat (oil heat is usually somewhere in between).

Most econimical for space heat is a single-room gas heater or a wood stove. Installation cost can be high, however, unless you do it yourself, so electric space heaters can save money by requiring no installation costs.

Heat pumps can be a good choice in some situations (usually in mild climates), but they have a high installation cost and are seldom used for space heating.
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Tom K6VL

[shelbydodgeimp]

[vitanola]

[Tom Albrecht]

I also recently got a combined methane (natural gas) and carbon monoxide detector. We recently got a gas fireplace insert, and I'm nervous that someday one of the kids will turn it on (they're not allowed to touch it) and leave it on (without lighting it). At least the alarm will go off before the house blows up...
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Tom K6VL

[knobsrmisn]

Haven't needed any heat in this part of Fl. so far this winter, we need some cool which I believe is coming later this week.
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A.K.

[wrnewton]

As far as efficiency goes, all electric heaters are 100% efficient. Power goes in, and has to come out somewhere. It may be all heat, or there may be some light as well as the heat. But all the energy comes back out into the room by convection or radiation or both. This efficiency refers only to the energy consumed by the heating element, not by a fan, if used. The cord and the plug and the receptacle might heat up a bit, too, but that's heat for the room.

I remember when those little cube Pelonis heaters came out maybe 25 years ago. I couldn't convince a hardware store salesman that they weren't any more efficient than any other electric heater. And of course they have a fan so the total input vs. output is not 100% efficient.

The public confuses efficiency with cost of operation and doesn't get the picture. The manufacturers are counting on that.

Reece

[terry h]

In a tight well insulated house you have many choices. If you can afford a tight well insulated house you can probably afford to move.

If you live in a drafty big old house with woods, you can burn wood...If you have a good lined chimney. (those pesky chimney fires) It's free, but for chainsaws and labor, pickup to haul, and constant attention to the fire.

The various gas alternatives should be vented, but modern ones don't need a lot.

Then there is oil.

I go through all of this common knowledge in the hope that someone won't spend good money buying some miracle electric heater for 5 times it's value.

Here, all common heating gases and fluids have gone up. Electricity is competitive, but only where I am. I need more wireing.

[Nothappy]

We are still waiting for our stove. They wont call us back, they wont answer their customer service phone number but they will still take orders. But if you ask the order person, she chuckles and tells you to call customer serice.

[Peter Bertini]

[Burnt Fingers]

I notice that none of those ads specify the power consumption or the made in China warranty.

My home is 3600 sq ft on 2 levels plus basement and walk up attic. Some dates back to the 1830's, 1920's and another section to 1989 when I moved here, rebuilt and added on. Typical New England style farm house, it just keeps growing.

Lots of insulation, 6" thick walls and low E windows. Im on top of a hill and the Montreal Express comes hauling thru every winter.

No gas in the area so Im on oil heat, forced hot water and 4 zones. We turn down sections during the day and at night and use fan type electric heaters to help raise the temperatures quickly.

Im not interested in wood or coal, been thru that mess and bother in the past and not interested in it again. I heated 100% by wood for 12 years in the 70's and early 80's, that included the hot water.

In the coldest temperatures I get about 3 weeks on a 275 gallon tank of oil but this also provides all the domestic hot water and we keep the thermostat at 70 degrees in occupied areas. Price was $3.21 last week.

Carl

[Peter Bertini]

Our only choice here is oil.. No gas available for miles.

I heat 100% with wood last year, but my supply is gone.
So, I a few years back I installed this 87% efficient cold-start three-pass boiler with a full outdoor reset Tekmar 260 controller. The old multifuel boiler is still inline, in case I ever have to go back to coal or wood..

http://i117.photobucket.com/al ... piping.jpg

Pete

[jkaetzjr]

Here in Hueytown, AL , operating cost of heat pump vs gas heat is a bit cheaper for heat pump theoretically and my experience is consistent with the arithmetic.

Cost of all-electric vs gas heat only, everything else electric, all-electric is roughly 75-80% of other way. not mentioning the initial cost and maintenance if you get a less than durable heat pump system, then it can get lop-sided the other way easily. And when it gets around freezing for a while, heat pump doesn't work too well. Also the air discharges for heat pump do not feel warm unless aux. (resistance) heat is on. Our electricity is about 11 cents/KWH. Of course gas varies all over the place! $4 to $10/KCF, avg. $6-$8

[terry h]

Hello Oil burners, Finger burners, and All.

Just a weather and fuel market report; Temps this week not expected to get above 0 in daytime and - 20 or so at night. Might see +20 late next week. Doable. The wind is a big factor. Calm today.

Bought some fuel oil in anticipation of the cold predictions, as the price always goes up after or during a cold snap. I paid 3.44 after a .20 cent per gallon discount for cash. I called ahead to my 2 suppliers. The other one was 6 cents more with cash.

This arctic air looks like it will spread all over the country. Our weather tends to go east, but sometimes turns south/southeast.
I'll be your canary in the mine.