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 Post subject: Re: Roaring 20s Superhets
PostPosted: Sep Thu 08, 2016 4:49 pm 
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Location: Phoenix, AZ 85085
Rick T. Ammon wrote:
The FIRST ad for Leutz IF transformers....Radio News June 1924....NO ASSUMPTION THERE! No branding on the base. See bottom right hand corner of the ad just outside the border for the date.

Have to admit, Alan, those could be pre-production IFs with the lack of labeling. If it had been used at an exposition, everything was sittin' pretty!!

Rick


Rick, I am not doubting the first advertisement for the Leutz IF transformers at all. I just haven't seen any "proof" that this set could not have been purchased at the Nov. 1923 Chicago radio exposition. I think the odds it was purchased at the 1923 Expo are more likely than being purchased at the 1924 Expo which likely would have had the C-7 models displayed instead of the Model C.

Alan


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 Post subject: Re: Roaring 20s Superhets
PostPosted: Sep Thu 08, 2016 5:31 pm 
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Location: Phoenix, AZ 85085
Indiana Radios wrote:

Alan, that has got to be the most perfectly angled and level wiring I've ever seen in a Leutz which leads me to believe that your set could have been a exposition demonstration set that was specially built at the factory.

Also, what's the deal with this C battery. It almost looks like a square case Eveready battery that's been opened, emptied, and another more rounded edge battery, with a blue label, inserted inside it. Can you verify that for me. What brand is that inner battery? I'm guessing from the blue label that it's an Eveready.


I agree with you Michael that this set must have been carefully built at the factory for a trade show. The wiring job was very professionally done.

Okay Michael, against my better judgement this morning I decided to try and answer the "C" battery question. First I carefully peeked at the blue battery inside this battery's cardboard label. Sure enough there was more labeling underneath the cardboard cover indicating another battery. Okay how do we figure out what the hidden battery is? Since the cover was somewhat loose I figured I could carefully remove the cardboard cover to reveal what was underneath. Of course I was trying to do all of this without removing the wood case again. Well, I managed to tear the label where the battery expiration date is. Grrr... :x Then once I had the cardboard label loose I couldn't get the battery cover out of the radio so off came the wood case again..... The good news is I can now scan the Tungsten battery label for Robert and he can do his magic and make some reproduction batteries.

Alan

If anyone else needs/wants other pictures of my Model C chassis while the case is off speak now or forever hold your peace. :wink:

Here is a picture of what is hiding under the battery label.
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This picture shows the metal bracket that holds the battery in place.
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I tried reading the expiration date of the flashlight battery to no avail.
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USA_Leutz_C-cbat6 arf.jpg [ 164.13 KiB | Viewed 4250 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: Roaring 20s Superhets
PostPosted: Sep Thu 08, 2016 6:42 pm 
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At this point no one knows what the original battery was. We have the presently installed battery, and an outer box for a different C battery which no one can say was from the original C battery. That could have been the first replacement, or it could have been the sixth? That said, we can go back to the IF discussion, and toss out the expire date of the battery. It can not be used to determine the age of the receiver.

One should also consider how long it takes an ad to go to print. I have noticed that magazines are ready for print months before it hits a news stand. In researching Arthur Lynch I found him still listed as the editor long after leaving the magazine. So an ad in June could mean that the product was on the market in February or March.


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 Post subject: Re: Roaring 20s Superhets
PostPosted: Sep Sat 10, 2016 1:27 am 
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No reason, Alan, to believe those transformers were available before February or March 1924, let alone way back in October or November '23.

Leutz mentioned in his book he had to use Acme and General Radio IFs while he prepared his new IFs after RCA abruptly withdrew their 1716s. Came as soon as RCA introduced their superhets in March 1924.

There are quite a few (by comparison) Model Cs using those substitution transformers, so my assumption is that it took at least a few weeks to work out the production kinks of the Leutz tranny. That accounts for April.

It typically took about 30 days to get an ad into the popular radio publications (by the end of May).

So, with the battery date being non-conclusive in your particular radio, Alan, and that the final schematic for the Model C7 was finished in June 1924, means your radio more than likely was built between March and the end of May '24. Still could have been put together for Radio Shows before RCA handed leutz their invitation to a court battle.

Just my opinion.... Rick

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 Post subject: Re: Roaring 20s Superhets
PostPosted: Sep Sat 10, 2016 9:42 pm 
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A Model C that needs a lot of love which I picked up a few years ago for a parts set. It has Acme IF's instead of the RCA or E.I.S.


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Last edited by David Willenborg on Feb Sat 17, 2018 4:32 am, edited 2 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Roaring 20s Superhets
PostPosted: Oct Wed 05, 2016 3:16 am 
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Picked up this pamphlet on ebay for the REL 9 receiver. I had never seen this one and had to have it for the collection.


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Last edited by David Willenborg on Feb Sat 17, 2018 4:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Roaring 20s Superhets
PostPosted: Oct Wed 05, 2016 2:26 pm 
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Location: Alhaurin de la Torre, Spain
I like to post photo's of two 1927 superhets, one french one with a glass frontplate. this is a homebrew radio. IF approx 50 kHz.
the otherone, rees radio, is a portable superhet. with an internal antenna. Both radio's work very fine.
The REES radio portable is in original condition. The french superhet hat only a few remainders of the box and some loose wood . From these remainders I could figure how the box had looked and I made one. The varnish is shellac. The interior is totally original


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 Post subject: Re: Roaring 20s Superhets
PostPosted: Oct Thu 06, 2016 2:35 am 
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Thanks for posting the photos of your superhets, nico. I like the one with the glass panel and its unique IF transformers.

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 Post subject: Re: Roaring 20s Superhets
PostPosted: Oct Thu 06, 2016 11:35 am 
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Those are fascinating!

I'll second the motion, thanks for posting them, nico!

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 Post subject: Re: Roaring 20s Superhets
PostPosted: Oct Sat 15, 2016 8:08 pm 
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This is a fantastic thread, real beautifull radio's!! And also interesting to see a systematic difference between USA radio's and European radio's.
We don't see here the long models like the TRF radio's with 3 tuning circuits. Can anyone tell me what in general is the circuit of the mixer? In Europe a double grid tube is used often in a self oscillating mixer (BI-GRILLE) But the rees radio uses a separate oscillator and a triode mixer.
I have an other portable of the 20 ties, but it is a TRF so doesn't belong here


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 Post subject: Re: Roaring 20s Superhets
PostPosted: Nov Wed 02, 2016 5:41 am 
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Rick T. Ammon wrote:
The FIRST ad for Leutz IF transformers....Radio News June 1924....NO ASSUMPTION THERE! No branding on the base. See bottom right hand corner of the ad just outside the border for the date.

Have to admit, Alan, those could be pre-production IFs with the lack of labeling. If it had been used at an exposition, everything was sittin' pretty!!

Rick


I just noticed that this EIS advertisement for the Model J TRF amplifier that appeared in the February, 1924 Radio News magazine. The Model J RF amp was bought with my Leutz Model C at the same trade show and they were acquired by me as a pair. This advertisement mentions that the Model J was for use with the Model "C" Super-Heterodyne. Apparently the Model "C" was available a few months sooner than Rick surmised. I am thinking the story that the radio was bought at a trade show in Chicago in late 1923 is likely correct.
Alan

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USA_Leutz_2-Stage RF Amp-Model J Feb. 1924 Radio News p1099 arf.jpg
USA_Leutz_2-Stage RF Amp-Model J Feb. 1924 Radio News p1099 arf.jpg [ 159.19 KiB | Viewed 3725 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: Roaring 20s Superhets
PostPosted: Nov Wed 02, 2016 7:21 am 
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I've posted a photo of this table scarf on another thread,
but since it was made for Radiola Super-hets I'd show it
here in case someone missed it on the other thread.
I bought it on ebay last week. I was really tickled when
I got it, it's nearly mint, shows no wear at all.
It's going to look great with my Radiola Super-Het display.


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RCA table scarf.jpg
RCA table scarf.jpg [ 108.41 KiB | Viewed 3720 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Roaring 20s Superhets
PostPosted: Nov Wed 02, 2016 1:25 pm 
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bigalarsen wrote:
Apparently the Model "C" was available a few months sooner than Rick surmised. I am thinking the story that the radio was bought at a trade show in Chicago in late 1923 is likely correct.
Alan


The Model C superhet radio was available in mid 1923, but it did not use the EIS Model C IF transformers. It used the RCA UV-1716 IF transformers. When RCA cut off the supply of those transformers then Leutz was forced to provide their own Model C transformer. I would bet that Rick is right.

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 Post subject: Re: Roaring 20s Superhets
PostPosted: Nov Wed 02, 2016 4:00 pm 
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Here's a superhet that I think few people have heard of. It's a "Super Grand" Type D-12 superheterodyne radio which was manufactured by the Radio Service Laboratories of Milwaukee, Wisconsin. It's an interesting receiver who's design was based on the Ultradyne L-2 layout and coils but it's been improvised with St. James glass enclosed IF transformers and a push-pull output. A meter was added on later but the installation wasn't done very well. The hole looks like it was whittled out the the mounting holes were drilled in at about 3 degrees off center to the right.

Image

Image

Image

Image

This is what the receiver was originally designed to look like (minus the meter).

Image

Here's a link to a Radio Service Laboratories IF transformer. https://books.google.com/books?id=z80_A ... &q&f=false

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Last edited by Indiana Radios on Jul Tue 18, 2017 2:14 am, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Roaring 20s Superhets
PostPosted: Nov Wed 02, 2016 6:51 pm 
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Location: Nr London, England, SS1 3PT
What a beauty that is !!

And the St. James IF's what ever they are got me singing the "... Infirmary Blues" which my wife hates, gets played just for the fun of winding her up.

Look after that one, even though its a shame about the meter hole. Have you though of putting one in there just to disguise it or do you think its part of its history and better left ?

Gary


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 Post subject: Re: Roaring 20s Superhets
PostPosted: Nov Wed 02, 2016 10:34 pm 
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First of all, I forgot to mention that this set is from the collection of Carl Zimm of Madison, Wisconsin. I told him that I'd like be able to supply him with either a 0 - 8 volt Jewell or Westen meter depending on the size of the hole. I think the best way to restore this set would be to engrave an exact duplicate of the panel. It may be pretty difficult to locate a good blank hard rubber panel. It would certantly look nicer with a Bakelite panel but that might be considered over restoring the set. I would think you could either use an engraving machine and use the original panel to trace out the engravings for the repo panel or you could scan in the engravings at a super high resolution, say up to 1200 dpi, and laser engrave it onto the repro panel. I think Carl is just going to fill in the hole with a meter an just leave it at that.

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 Post subject: Re: Roaring 20s Superhets
PostPosted: Nov Wed 02, 2016 11:15 pm 
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I have a similar nine tube Ultradyne using Phenix IF's, Rheostats vise Amperites, two panel meters, and the same Como push pull transformer setup but using W.E. 216 tubes. I wonder if there is an article in a 1924 magazine on a nine tube Ultradyne?


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 Post subject: Re: Roaring 20s Superhets
PostPosted: Nov Thu 03, 2016 12:08 am 
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I wonder why this set used St. James transformers instead of Radio Service Laboratories transformers?

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 Post subject: Re: Roaring 20s Superhets
PostPosted: Nov Thu 03, 2016 12:59 am 
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I think I misidentified that ad as an ad for IF transformers. It's actually advertising RF transformers, not IF transformers. This ad dats from 1922 while the RSL superhet dates from somewhere around 1925 to 1928. I'm not sure RSL even made any IF transformers. I don't recall ever seeing any ads for them.

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 Post subject: Re: Roaring 20s Superhets
PostPosted: Nov Thu 03, 2016 4:23 am 
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Reference to the posting above from Bigalarson about when the EIS Model "C" was introduced....Apparently the Model "C" was available a few months sooner than Rick surmised.

No, apparently, some info was missed as we were talking about the introduction of the EIS RF Transformers and not the introduction of the Model "C". Please read the following excerpts from my Super Het book:

"This receiver’s blueprints (EIS Model C) were made available to the public in April 1923 and, soon after, parts were available to build it. Radio News for July of that year carried the first ad for the E.I.S. Model C designed by Charles Leutz.... The “C” was designed for a loop antenna, but an external adapter unit was available for an outside antenna.... Leutz had worked a deal with RCA so the early IF transformers found in his superhets were the RCA (General Electric) UV1716s....

So, the Model C was for fact earlier than 1924 and I said that.

Rick

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