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 Post subject: Telefunken Wien III?
PostPosted: Oct Thu 25, 2012 3:43 pm 
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Location: D/FW area
Just last night I acquired a Telefunken Wien III. It might be the IIIU....my model appears to be identical to the picture that pwalker posted in the other Telefunken thread here. My outboard speakers also appear to be identical to his. His picture does not show the unit opened up so I cannot be sure, but mine has a pull-out turntable and a light blue metal unit that looks like some sort of "tape"?? The corresponding white button that controls it below the radio has the words "P.U. Tape" above it.

I will describe my unit now and I am positive I will have a few questions about it as soon as I can go home tonight and do a thorough once-over. I got it late last night and listened to it before I had to go to bed so I didn't get a chance to do it then. Oh, FWI -- I know nothing about electronics so consider me a baby in diapers here.

Upon my limited exploration last night: my unit works -- the radio sounds fantastic and the internal speakers are clear. There is a definite and consistent low-grade hum whenever the unit is turned on but when the stereo is on you can ignore it or pretend it's part of the ambiance of the piece. My 19-yr old daughter thought it was the coolest thing since sliced bread! The low hum is a bit harder to ignore when the turntable is used but I wonder if that is because the outboard speakers are used for the turntable instead of the internals? I have a bit of an issue with one of those speakers.....one works perfectly but the other is lower. When you put your ear to it you hear an echo of the music but nothing is really coming out. I intend to go home tonight from work, unplug the speakers, and switch them (plugging them into the opposite jacks) to see if it is the speaker itself that is the issue or the connector in the light blue "tape" unit (amp? -- see I told you I'm a baby here!) I will also look to see if there are any words written on the back of the unit.

Oh! I have all the original schematics printed in German. If anyone is interested in these I can scan them and post them?

Thank you all for listening to my ramblings. I am in love with this thing. Sinatra never sounded so good.


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 Post subject: Re: Telefunken Wien III?
PostPosted: Oct Thu 25, 2012 8:37 pm 
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Hello, and welcome to the forums. Those European sets are nice sounding sets, that's for sure. Anyway, that low hum you're hearing is more than likely caused from the filter capacitors going bad, which is common in vintage radios. I would highly recommend not to use the set until you replace at least the filter capacitors in that set. Preferably, other paper and wax capacitors as well as any other electrolytics. There is plenty of help here that you can find to guide you through the process, or you can try to find someone in your area to do the job as well.

The reason you will want to do this, is because if the filter caps in the power supply fail, they could cause damage to other irreplaceable parts such as the power transformer in the radio. This will also make the radio much safer to play and cut down on any chances or overheating. Those filter capacitors will fail at some point, however.

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 Post subject: Re: Telefunken Wien III?
PostPosted: Oct Fri 26, 2012 2:22 pm 
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dschulma, thank you for the reply!

I'd planned on turning the Telefunken on last night to check the speaker output but your reply got me more than a little skittish about turning it on again. :lol: I'll be talking to a friend of mine this weekend who did electronics back in the early 80's (when tubes, etc., were still around) and have her take a look behind the wheel, so to speak. I'm scared to death of touching it myself unless I have very detailed instructions.

In the meantime, I wonder if anyone else can answer a question for me. I've done a rather exhaustive search for pictures of Wiens to see if I could find one that had my strange light-blue amp/thing, to no avail. so I stole my daughter's facebook pics of our Wien and here they are:

Image
Image

The first picture features the radio and then the amp (??) underneath.

My apologies for my ignorance in advance, but would anyone be so kind as to let me know what that is? I'm guessing an amp, but hey....that's a guess. :mrgreen:

Thanks again! I'll be asking more questions later, I am sure of it!

EDIT: and here's one more! Currently there are no backlights on the radio when it plays. Most older setups I've ever seen had glowy radio dials, etc etc. This one doesn't. The only thing that glows is the little rectangle next to the dial on the left. Does this radio glow at all or do I have something burned out here?


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 Post subject: Re: Telefunken Wien III?
PostPosted: Oct Fri 26, 2012 2:52 pm 
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From what I can tell by some quick reserach online, is that light blue amp looking thing (I'm guessing it's the thing "underneath" with the pushbuttons) could be a tape recorder. The documentation I found indicates a record player and a tape recorder.

http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/telefunken_musiktruhe_wien_iii_u_3u.html

Also, their should be some backlights on that set, but they are ususally always burned out and need to be replaced. Hopefully, they are just regular miniature lamps and can be replaced easily. I had one European set, a Philips, that had a plasma backlight and needless to say it was not replaceable. I had to retrofit the set with a couple of standard miniature lamps. The little rectangle you see that glows is the tuning eye tube. It's actually a vacuum tube that will get brighter as you tune in stations, basically helping you adjust the tuning for the strongest signal. It should glow a fairly bright green in color.

Good to have your friend take a look, if she has any questions, just have her come to the forums and ask us. We would be more than glad to help! Good luck and you have a beautiful set there.

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73, David--WD0ERU, http://www.schulmanauction.com/vintage-electronics/


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 Post subject: Re: Telefunken Wien III?
PostPosted: Oct Fri 26, 2012 3:24 pm 
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Also, I'm not sure how that tape recorder (if that is in fact what it is) is used. It may pull out (looks like there is a place to pull out the drawer/unit right under and in front of the buttons) or it may be a separate unit hidden inside another drawer or cabinet in your set. Perhaps under the phonograph? It is more than likely a reel to reel tape deck. It could also be a separate unit that would be hooked up to some connector on the back and that pushbutton unit would be the controls.

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Last edited by dschulma on Oct Fri 26, 2012 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Telefunken Wien III?
PostPosted: Oct Fri 26, 2012 4:05 pm 
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That's quite a set-up you have there - I am as green as a magic eye tube !

The hum should not be there, but in itself is not that difficult to address if the rest of it is good.

The backlights I am not sure about and I have never worked on a Telefunken, but on Grundigs, their power sometimes comes from the connections on the back of the green 'magic eye' tube. Since those tubes need replacing periodically, either of the thin wires could get snapped off while the owner is wrestling with it, cutting out all the lamps in one go. I just snapped one so it is fresh in my mind ! Just one theory but as long as they are just normal bulbs is likely to be easy to fix.

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 Post subject: Re: Telefunken Wien III?
PostPosted: Oct Fri 26, 2012 5:19 pm 
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chrisc, thank you for your admiration. I think she's a sexy best for sure! I'll check in the back tonight and see if I can see any snapped wires. It's very possible something happened to her before I got her! She was part of a collector's estate so I got her for a song! (if you'll pardon the pun)

dschulma, I can partially answer one of your questions here at work without inspecting the set in greater detail. The amp/tape recorder (heretofore referred to as the TR) does pull out. You can see some scrapes on the wood underneath the TR and that's because there's a shelf there that the TR sits on. I will pull it out completely and take some more pictures of it tonight. I will also poke around to see if there is indeed a reel to reel (although the info link to radiomuseum says "Tape Recorder (input-output), not Reel-To-Reel?)

I do know that the TR does not have to be "on" to listen to the radio. When I want to play the turntable I have to press the button that says something like "P.U./Tape." (going off memory here, my pictures are way too blurry to refer to them now.) The TR turns on, heats up, and the phono plays. I have noticed that the phono does not play through the internal speakers at the bottom of the console but instead plays through those outboard little beauties on top of the console. Incidentally, those speakers are plugged into the back of the TR.

OH WAIT! I think a friend of mine with mightily impressive GoogleFu might've found what we're looking for!

Ok, so here's our guess: the button with the tape reel/circle above it (far left) is the power button for either the turntable or the tape recorder, depending on which one (or both) the unit has. I know when I press that button it makes a buzzing noise but doesnt engage anything. The button with the circle symbol (far right) is the record player button. I press that one and my phono works.

Anyone else who can tell me what the two buttons do in the middle will earn my undying gratitude. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Telefunken Wien III?
PostPosted: Oct Fri 26, 2012 5:49 pm 
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That was a good catch, you were right, it is an audio amplifier. According to the documentaion at radiomuseum.org those two middle buttons are bass and treble buttons, note the corresponding symbols. They simply add more bass or treble to the sound of whatever is being amplified. I have a similar set up on one of my tabletop Philips units with those symbols. It's not adjustable as to the amount that is added, though. That amplifier will have to be gone through as well, and have the appropriate electrolytics, etc., replaced. That truly is a unique set and I'd definitely have it properly restored electronically, before I'd go much further with it.

When you have some time, if you could possibly take some nice photos of everything you can of the set, including one with the back removed (if you feel comfortable doing that) I can upload the photos to the radiomuseum.org website to go with the first link I posted and then there would be photo documentation for the set as well, for others who may be interested.

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 Post subject: Re: Telefunken Wien III?
PostPosted: Oct Fri 26, 2012 6:47 pm 
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Isn't the right hand button an on - off switch ? I'm guessing that is what those 2 symbols mean

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 Post subject: Re: Telefunken Wien III?
PostPosted: Oct Fri 26, 2012 7:09 pm 
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chrisc, I think you're right. My phonograph doesn't work unless that button is pressed and (IIRC) the "P.U/Tape" button is pressed near the radio.

I will certainly take all the pictures tonight. I'll be brave and take off the back of the set as well. While I'm there I'll take a look at the wires for the backlights on the radio and switch my speakers out to see whether my problem with output on one of the speakers is in the speaker itself or something loose/gone/burned out on the amp.

All right then, my set is a Musiktruhe Telefunken Wien III-U. It'll be nice to see all the pictures uploaded to the radiomuseum page, the poor page there looks bare.

Thanks to everyone for being such a great help!


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 Post subject: Re: Telefunken Wien III?
PostPosted: Oct Fri 26, 2012 7:13 pm 
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You're quite welcome. I have an affinity for European sets! Also the switch on the right is a power switch for the amplifier, as was mentioned above. The amplifier controls only the tape deck and the phonograph (I think). When you would want to play the tape deck, you'd select the button on the right, otherwise the phono would be selected by default. You can post the pictures here and also email them to me at dschulma "at" kc.rr.com. When I get them posted, I'll let you know.

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 Post subject: Re: Telefunken Wien III?
PostPosted: Oct Fri 26, 2012 7:42 pm 
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I've been thinking about that tape button on my amp.

Since the amp is a Stereo-Zweikanal-Verstärker (likely either an S80 or an S81 model) and doesn't have a tape of any sort inside it, the button is either a stock button that my particular system didn't use OR my system originally DID have a reel-to-reel! If it did, it's not there any longer.

Hmm......there's an empty space underneath the pull-out turntable that could've originally housed a reel-to-reel. I'm currently using it to store my LPs underneath the turntable (and that's what I thought that empty space was for, actually ha!) but it's certainly possible that it was designed to house another optional component! Or a not-so-optional one that just isn't there any more.

I'm going to look at that part of the set closer tonight. My dad bought an old Telefunken reel to reel during his days stationed in Germany c1960 and if he still has it, wouldn't that be killer to put the old thing back into rotation? :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Telefunken Wien III?
PostPosted: Oct Sat 27, 2012 3:34 am 
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Well one thing is for sure....it's a Musiktruhe Wien IIIU. It says so right on the back panel!

Image
Image

I took a number of photos and I've sent them on to you, dschulma, but I'm posting just a few highlights here. Feel free to pick as many as you like of the ones I sent you to add to the radiomuseum site.

Another thing I discovered was that both of my outboard speakers work fine. I unplugged and switched the speakers and found that whatever speaker was plugged into the left hand side of the amp (facing the rear of the unit) was the one with very low output. That tells me there's a problem with the amp itself.

Image

Rats. :D I was hoping the low hum would be the only issue. :mrgreen:

I'd welcome everyone's opinions on whether they think this unit has been serviced before. I'm almost certain it has at some point. The wiring along the side doesn't appear to be original?? -- or maybe that's my ignorance showing itself. However, I found something taped to the back of the cabinet that appeared to be a receipt for service but it was all ripped off except a small portion that stuck to some scotch tape. If it was serviced it was likely done in the mid-70's or very early 80's.

Image
Image
Image

I didn't see a backlight bulb of any sort that would make the dials of the radio light up -- I did, however, see a few tubes in the proximity. I counted six total tubes in all. I looked at all the capacitors and thought to myself that I'd never be able to do a job like I imagine it needs all by myself. I've never even used a soldering gun!

Image

It's late and I'm fading fast so I'll get this posted. Thanks again to all of you.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Telefunken Wien III?
PostPosted: Oct Sat 27, 2012 4:11 pm 
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...backlight bulbs are likely to be behind the tuning dial itself and may not be readily visible from the back like that. Replacing them would require removing the chassis, removing the knobs and removing the (glass!) dial plate. Also, good shot of your EM84 eye tube indicating a moderately strong station (the two blue/green lit segments move toward each other with increasing signal strength).
...that amp looks interesting. Very low profile and no visible tubes; makes me wonder if it's an early solid-state amp...
...edit: should have checked your link first (d'OH!). It is a tube amp (2 tubes, horizontally mounted). Buttons are, left to right: phono/tape selector (phono by default; press for tape), bass boost, treble boost, amp on/off. Uses two ECL82 tubes; 2W/channel output. (According to schematic found on Radiomuseum page. Yes, I can read German.)


Last edited by FM Refugee on Oct Sat 27, 2012 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Telefunken Wien III?
PostPosted: Oct Sat 27, 2012 4:12 pm 
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I hope everyone enjoyed the pictures!

I wanted to find out the model number of my amp (it's a Stereo-Zweikanal-Verstärker, but an S80 or an S81?) but it wouldn't budge at all even though I tried to lift it up and away from the wood piece it's resting on. I shone a flashlight under the amp to see if it was bolted down but it wasn't -- all I saw were four rubber feet -- so I'm not at all sure why it wouldn't move. I could have tugged harder on it but I wasn't at all willing to break something in the process! For right now, then, the model number is a mystery.

I'd love to find an owner's manual for my unit. I took a couple of years of German in college and I can still pick out more than a few words here and there but I'd like it better if I could find the manual printed in English. I've poked around on some sites (Sams, etc.) to no avail. I did find a manual on Vinyl Engine for the TW 561 turntable, which (I think) is my unit's turntable. Mine says "Aereo" on the needle arm. It's in German, though, so wheeee!

The search continues....


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 Post subject: Re: Telefunken Wien III?
PostPosted: Oct Sat 27, 2012 4:30 pm 
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...very likely those rubber feet have gotten sticky after 50+ years. You can try gently prying the feet loose; it is unlikely you're going to break anything (metal case of amplifier or wooden shelf) if you're careful...


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 Post subject: Re: Telefunken Wien III?
PostPosted: Oct Sat 27, 2012 4:54 pm 
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I'll give it a try on Sunday night when I'm going to be removing the back again for some more pictures for the radiomuseum site. Thanks for the assurances!


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 Post subject: Re: Telefunken Wien III?
PostPosted: Nov Fri 22, 2013 9:34 pm 
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Hi, this is Shawn Borri who makes new brown wax Edison Blanks.

Anyhow I just purchased one of these Telefunken Wien III console. Im going to start with the power supply and recap it. I am starting with the 2 50/50 MFD (going to use 450 volt cans (one in the radio the other in the S81 amp. Also to be safe, and correct me if I am wrong. I want to replace the B250 C75/N2 rectifier with
Part # 050-030 (Parts Express) 400V at 6 Amp? And a 10 watt, 100 ohm resistor, will this be safe? I am fond of valve equipment, and think this is a nice looking console.


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 Post subject: Re: Telefunken Wien III?
PostPosted: Nov Fri 22, 2013 10:42 pm 
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Take a look at the ventilation holes on top of the amplifier.If there are four rows of holes,then it's the S80.
If there are five rows of holes,it's the S81.
http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/telefunken ... rstae.html
http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/telefunken ... tae_1.html


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 Post subject: Re: Telefunken Wien III?
PostPosted: Nov Fri 22, 2013 10:50 pm 
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FWIW - I have the chassis from a big Telefunken console that was being trashed. The chassis has push-pull 6BQ5's which drove the main (mono) speakers in the console. Also included was a separate chassis which is wired with 2 single-ended 6BQ5's driving a pair of remote speakers for stereo. There is a separate control panel for this amp but it is not part of it like yours. (The SE amp was hidden inside the cabinet.) When playing records, a crossover network sends bass and lower midrange to the main console speakers from the PP amp while the SE amp is used to send upper midrange and treble in stereo to the remote speakers. I believe an optional stereo tape deck could be used with the system as well.

This unit was found in the lobby of closed radio station studio. It had been painted shabby-chic and was headed for the dumpster but I managed to save the electronics. The owner of the station claimed that it had once been installed in the lobby of the Waldorf-Astoria in NYC who's staff had painted it to match the rest of the décor. He said he rescued it when they were remodeling and planned to toss it out.

Dave


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