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 Post subject: 1920's "B" Battery Eliminator History
PostPosted: Dec Wed 11, 2013 6:56 pm 
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Hello Everyone,

I was wondering if anyone knows who was the "First" company manufacturer, to start producing and selling "B" Battery Eliminators and what year ??

Thanks Rick


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 Post subject: Re: 1920's "B" Battery Eliminator History
PostPosted: Dec Wed 11, 2013 10:59 pm 
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Location: Pocasset, Cape Cod, MA
Off the top of my head, Dubilier's Super-Ducon in 1924


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 Post subject: Re: 1920's "B" Battery Eliminator History
PostPosted: Dec Thu 12, 2013 3:09 am 
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Can't add any more to that...

But on the subject of battery eliminators, I've been collecting various eliminators with the long term goal of making up an exhibit of the various technologies... Cold cathode, hot cathode argon & mercury, high vacuum rectifiers, electrochemical, copper oxide, there are probably a couple I've missed... I also have varoius chargers.... I think the only technology I don't have there is a synchronous mechanical rectifier. (that one has eluded me for years).

Somewhere I have a little bottle of Philco 'rectifier oil', I had to have it, because it seemed nutty at the time... The idea was that the oil slowed the evaporation of electrolyte in the "pickle bottle" rectifiers.

Robert


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 Post subject: Re: 1920's "B" Battery Eliminator History
PostPosted: Dec Thu 12, 2013 5:03 am 
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Robert Lozier wrote:
Can't add any more to that...

But on the subject of battery eliminators, I've been collecting various eliminators with the long term goal of making up an exhibit of the various technologies... Cold cathode, hot cathode argon & mercury, high vacuum rectifiers, electrochemical, copper oxide, there are probably a couple I've missed... I also have varoius chargers.... I think the only technology I don't have there is a synchronous mechanical rectifier. (that one has eluded me for years).

Robert


Robert,

Wasn't there an early battery eliminator manufactured by Ratheon prior to the development of the cold cathode gas rectifier that used a chemical cartridge. Apparently these were very short lived devices as the rectifier cartridges would explode violently. FWIR referred to as "baby killers"?

Early Riders manuals have schematics for a few of the "B" eliminators, possibly couple of "A" eliminators too. At least it's a start for a list...

Chas

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 Post subject: Re: 1920's "B" Battery Eliminator History
PostPosted: Dec Thu 12, 2013 6:38 am 
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Robert Lozier wrote:
Can't add any more to that...

But on the subject of battery eliminators, I've been collecting various eliminators with the long term goal of making up an exhibit of the various technologies... Cold cathode, hot cathode argon & mercury, high vacuum rectifiers, electrochemical, copper oxide, there are probably a couple I've missed... I also have varoius chargers.... I think the only technology I don't have there is a synchronous mechanical rectifier. (that one has eluded me for years).

Somewhere I have a little bottle of Philco 'rectifier oil', I had to have it, because it seemed nutty at the time... The idea was that the oil slowed the evaporation of electrolyte in the "pickle bottle" rectifiers.

Robert


I believe my friend's '68 Chevy 3/4 uses a mechanical rectifier like you mention to convert the alternator output to DC for charging the battery. Might be easier to find to at least have an example of that kind of mechanism, even if not radio related.

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 Post subject: Re: 1920's "B" Battery Eliminator History
PostPosted: Dec Thu 12, 2013 8:00 am 
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Location: Truth or Consequences, NM
I have no doubt by 1920 these could be built. It may not have been cost effective or possibly some patent blocking them.
It also could have been the lack of power distribution keeping the idea down.


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 Post subject: Re: 1920's "B" Battery Eliminator History
PostPosted: Dec Thu 12, 2013 1:13 pm 
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By 1920, not to many people had radios to begin with and what radios they did have were basically small 1 and 2 tube sets. By 1924, radios were featuring 4 to 6 tubes whose large B+ current justified the introduction for B+ battery eliminators.

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 Post subject: Re: 1920's "B" Battery Eliminator History
PostPosted: Dec Thu 12, 2013 4:55 pm 
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The first stage would have been battery chargers, then to battery eliminators.
For the high voltages used in transmitters a motor generator was used.
I suspect it was more a market demand that created a place for them.
Getting rid of the acid battery, or the costly zinc carbon, was an easy marking method.
It could be easily shown that saving of batteries could pay for the cost of the eliminator.

I would advise searching the early electronic (wireless, and radio) magazines to see were this first was being marketed.


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 Post subject: Re: 1920's "B" Battery Eliminator History
PostPosted: Dec Thu 12, 2013 6:30 pm 
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Attachment:
WLS Rectifier.jpg
WLS Rectifier.jpg [ 90.54 KiB | Viewed 9391 times ]

Sears sold chargers with mechanical rectifiers, I think made by Kodel since that's the name on the meter. I have no idea how old this one is. There were battery chargers long before B eliminators.

I have a National Co. charger using the Raytheon cartridges, and an Acme too. Yes, the cartridges were prone to explosion, and since they contained sulfuric acid that wasn't good. Raytheon reportedly dispatched a smooth-talking lawyer with a satchel of cash to settle the claims. It's probably in Scott's The Creative Ordeal, the Raytheon official history. That would have been 1926 or 1927.

Here's another contender, by Cleartron. I have no idea when this was sold or what if anything it was for.
Attachment:
Rectron CT400.jpg
Rectron CT400.jpg [ 100.64 KiB | Viewed 9386 times ]

The Dubilier used a UV196, discussed here a few months ago.


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 Post subject: Re: 1920's "B" Battery Eliminator History
PostPosted: Dec Fri 13, 2013 4:04 am 
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Location: Monroe, NC 28112 USA
Another proof of defective memory...

This Farrand 'B' eliminator used a UX-213 or a Raytheon BH

It is in Riders under Eliminators...

I hope that the bulb in the 213 socket is indeed a UX-213... Right now the tube won't come out of the socket!

I'm not sure if I have another one...

Still a gizmo I don't think I've seen elsewhere...

Robert


Attachments:
sf-Farrand B-01.jpg
sf-Farrand B-01.jpg [ 135.67 KiB | Viewed 9349 times ]
sf-Farrand B-00.jpg
sf-Farrand B-00.jpg [ 133.98 KiB | Viewed 9349 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: 1920's "B" Battery Eliminator History
PostPosted: Dec Fri 13, 2013 4:37 am 
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lostcauses10x wrote:
The first stage would have been battery chargers, then to battery eliminators.
B batteries were not rechargeable.
That was the whole reason for B Battery Eliminators.

Those rapidly evolved into AC-driven power supplies, producing both filament and B voltages.

This led to the development of tubes with indirectly-heated cathodes, to reduce hum.

- Leigh

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 Post subject: Re: 1920's "B" Battery Eliminator History
PostPosted: Dec Fri 13, 2013 4:42 am 
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Hello Everyone,

Thru my research, I believe that the Timmons B-Liminator was the "very first" "B" Battery Eliminator to be developed and produced. I found an original Timmons Radio Products Corporation (Germantown PA.) sales brochure for its "B-Liminator" and it has a patent date of "May 15, 1923" on the front cover. This would precede Dubilier's Super-Ducon "B" Battery Eliminator that was first announced in 1924, and which I found in the July issue of The Wireless Age.

Image

Image


Finally, does anyone have anymore information on the Timmons B-liminator ??

Thanks Rick


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 Post subject: Re: 1920's "B" Battery Eliminator History
PostPosted: Dec Fri 13, 2013 5:10 am 
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Robert Lozier wrote:
I hope that the bulb in the 213 socket is indeed a UX-213... Right now the tube won't come out of the socket!
That tube is held in place by the pin sticking out the side of its base.

You must push it down and rotate it to get it out of the socket.

- Leigh

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Click "Grebe Stuff" for Synchrophase info


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 Post subject: Re: 1920's "B" Battery Eliminator History
PostPosted: Dec Fri 13, 2013 6:43 am 
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Location: Orlando, FL, USA
Alan: Cleartron CT-400? Yet another gridless 201A to add to my want list.

Robert: The tube in your Farrand unit is a UX-280, and would function perfectly well in place of a UX-213. UX-213 tubes have bright, uncoated, nickel plates.

Rick: The Timmons B-Liminator uses a "Timmons B-Liminator" tube, which is, essentially, a brass-based, gridless, UV201A. I suspect any UV201A would do the job. I have a tube and box somewhere. I will try to find for a photo.

As a tube collector, I am partial to quirky American types, and the gridless 201As have caught my fancy. Ureco made a battery eliminator with a gridless Ureco tube. I saw one, but was unable to buy it. Sylvania marketed a type SR-5 in 1926 that is a gridless UX-201A.

In my collection I have:
Apco "Rectifying Tube" - gridless UX201A
Ceco type D - gridless UV201A
Perryman type 216A - gridless UX201A (not to be confused with the Western Electric 216A or the RCA 216B)
Raytheon experimental Hg rectifier- no type number, S-14 bulb, box plate 4Pillar with "M" filament.
Timmons B-Liminator Tube - gridless UV201A


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 Post subject: Re: 1920's "B" Battery Eliminator History
PostPosted: Dec Fri 13, 2013 2:22 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 2244
Location: Monroe, NC 28112 USA
Leigh wrote:
Robert Lozier wrote:
I hope that the bulb in the 213 socket is indeed a UX-213... Right now the tube won't come out of the socket!
That tube is held in place by the pin sticking out the side of its base.

You must push it down and rotate it to get it out of the socket.

- Leigh


Yep... I know about the bayonet pin... But I also see sockets where one of the tube pins slips off the side of the socket contact and prevents rotating the tube base enough to unlock.

The Rider - Farrand generated schematic is dated 11-1-26 I see where the '80 is supposed to have been introduced in May 1927 - Who knows.. Maybe this particular eliminator never even saw a '213 in that socket.

Robert


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 Post subject: Re: 1920's "B" Battery Eliminator History
PostPosted: Dec Fri 13, 2013 4:56 pm 
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You want to find an ad for that Timmons, since the patent date doesn't tell when it was made. Radio in The Home might be a good place to look, since it was published in Philadelphia.

Here's an oddball rectifier:
Attachment:
Elkon EBH.jpg
Elkon EBH.jpg [ 98.31 KiB | Viewed 9278 times ]
I think it is a magnesium sulfide type, made around 1930, maybe later.

I don't recall having any other gridless 01As, but there was the Schickerling Z50, a half-wave gaseous rectifier. I have several of those.


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 Post subject: Re: 1920's "B" Battery Eliminator History
PostPosted: Dec Sat 14, 2013 3:26 am 
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Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa, USA
Chas, I have seen articles about what you mentioned. I think it was Raytheon that had an "A-B eliminator" that exploded, reportedly causing a pregnant woman to miscarry, and some wag coined the term "Baby eliminator". The device was quickly pulled off the market.
Alan and Jim, you have a good head start on collecting the specialty tubes, but I'm trying to catch up. Thanks to all for the pictures and history.


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 Post subject: Re: 1920's "B" Battery Eliminator History
PostPosted: Dec Sat 14, 2013 4:35 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 26, 2012 6:56 pm
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Hello,

I think this is the item that Chas and Alan are referring to, in regards to the "exploding" Raytheon rectifiers. It is a metal tube Type "A" rectifier, that was produced in 1926-27. And these were developed for use in Type "A" Power Supply Units, which would supply the radio tube's filament voltages.

Image


Rick


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 Post subject: Re: 1920's "B" Battery Eliminator History
PostPosted: Dec Sat 14, 2013 3:39 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 25381
Location: Pocasset, Cape Cod, MA
I've never seen a loose cartridge or a box.
Attachment:
National R-26.jpg
National R-26.jpg [ 101.8 KiB | Viewed 9198 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: 1920's "B" Battery Eliminator History
PostPosted: Dec Sun 15, 2013 5:06 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 26, 2012 6:56 pm
Posts: 96
Hi Alan,

The P.R. Malloy-Elkon dry type EBH rectifier metal can, with four UX-pins that you show a photo of, is actually made "earlier" than what you had originally stated. It was made around 1928, and is an aluminum-magnesium sulfide type metallic rectifier, that is specifically designed to "replace" the popular high-voltage full wave gaseous Raytheon type "BH" cold cathode rectifier tubes that were used in the "B" Battery Eliminators. (These EBH types will not work as replacement for the filament type rectifier tubes). I have also attached an advertisement that was found in the December 1928 issue of Popular Mechanics - page 139.

There is also more technical data information and an article written about this item by J. GEORGE UZMANN, and is in the Radio Broadcast December 1928 issue (Volume 14) -page 120.

Image

Rick


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