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 Post subject: Zenith 8-s-463 with 10 tubes? Radio chassis 589728
PostPosted: Sep Sun 05, 2021 2:19 pm 
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Greetings... Mark here in Florida...

Been wanting a nice shutter dial Zenith for a while but found this one on Craigslist and couldn't pass it up even without the shutter dial.... Looked to be in decent shape... original finish missing just a little of the photo finish no bad scratches or gouges, so I cleaned up the cabinet... buttons and knobs are little rough but I can worry about those later.

Buuuuuuuut is this weird?

Once I started digging into the chassis I noticed it has 10 tubes where should really have only eight.... got an extra rectifier and it's using two 6V6G's in push pull instead of the a single 6F6G.... for the most part it looks original under the hood and nearly all the tubes are original Zenith branded and test like new. I think there was definitely a Mickey Mouse repair at some point..... check out the flying Junction in the lower third of the chassis.

I'm definitely replacing all the capacitors and rotten rubber wire, but I would like to know what schematic to use to hopefully return the circuit to stock if that is in fact an improper repair. Take a look at the pictures.... whatchya think?


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 8-s-463 with 10 tubes? Radio chassis 589728
PostPosted: Sep Sun 05, 2021 3:13 pm 
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Don't see a picture of the top of the chassis, but perhaps someone just exchanged a 10-tube 1940 chassis for the 9-tube version. Check the chassis to see if a model number might be on the chassis. If you you can check the serial number in the Zenith service manual and it may correlate to a chassis number. If some cases, toward the end of the model year Zenith has excess chassis that they put in the cabinets in hand. I have a 1938 12S266 cabinet with a 9-tube export chassis and Zenith put the "new" model number 9S266 on the inside of the cabinet in chalk.

Either way the radio is fine with the larger chassis, and it is a good looking model.


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 8-s-463 with 10 tubes? Radio chassis 589728
PostPosted: Sep Sun 05, 2021 3:32 pm 
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The 10 tube (also the 11 tube) chassis fits exactly the same as the 8 tube, in any of the 8 tube 1940 cabinets. Of course, one would also have to install the correct speaker that matched the chassis, since they are different.

This will be your schematic: http://www.nostalgiaair.org/pagesbymode ... 024689.pdf

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 8-s-463 with 10 tubes? Radio chassis 589728
PostPosted: Sep Sun 05, 2021 3:52 pm 
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Interesting...

Here's some more info for clarification....

Chassis number is S589728

Speaker is 49AB353

Top of chaos.... All tube sockets are labeled, and match the tubes.....

Thanks for the schematic link!


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 8-s-463 with 10 tubes? Radio chassis 589728
PostPosted: Sep Sun 05, 2021 6:13 pm 
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That serial number crosses over to the 1005 chassis. What is listed on the label, on the inside of the cabinet?

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 8-s-463 with 10 tubes? Radio chassis 589728
PostPosted: Sep Sun 05, 2021 6:25 pm 
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Cabinet label says Chassis 5808?


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 8-s-463 with 10 tubes? Radio chassis 589728
PostPosted: Sep Sun 05, 2021 6:39 pm 
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5808 was the 8-tube chassis that was in there originally. 1005 is the 10-tube chassis that someone swapped in that's in there now. It's a Zenith Franken-radio.

49-353 that you have is the correct 12-inch speaker for the 1005 chassis. The speaker for the 5808 chassis would have been the 10-inch 49-380 speaker. So the speaker was correctly swapped when the chassis was.

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 8-s-463 with 10 tubes? Radio chassis 589728
PostPosted: Sep Sun 05, 2021 6:42 pm 
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I'd try to find the correct 8 tube chassis and speaker. They are extremely common.


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 8-s-463 with 10 tubes? Radio chassis 589728
PostPosted: Sep Sun 05, 2021 8:57 pm 
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AuroraOldRadios wrote:
I'd try to find the correct 8 tube chassis and speaker. They are extremely common.

If he's going to all the trouble of electronically restoring this one, and it could be that it came from the factory this way, there's no point to then swapping it out. And that dual 6V6 audio output is an added bonus for keeping it this way.

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 8-s-463 with 10 tubes? Radio chassis 589728
PostPosted: Sep Sun 05, 2021 9:30 pm 
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fifties wrote:
AuroraOldRadios wrote:
I'd try to find the correct 8 tube chassis and speaker. They are extremely common.

If he's going to all the trouble of electronically restoring this one, and it could be that it came from the factory this way, there's no point to then swapping it out. And that dual 6V6 audio output is an added bonus for keeping it this way.

The original speaker would have been 10". The speaker he has is 12". The speaker board would have been hacked in some manner to make a 12" work. That would be one way to tell if it's factory or home made.


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 8-s-463 with 10 tubes? Radio chassis 589728
PostPosted: Sep Sun 05, 2021 9:58 pm 
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AuroraOldRadios wrote:
The original speaker would have been 10". The speaker he has is 12". The speaker board would have been hacked in some manner to make a 12" work. That would be one way to tell if it's factory or home made.


He apparently already has the correct speaker for this chassis, so the only conundrum for him would be if he'll be satisfied with the existing setup, or definitely want to get the 8S-463 chassis and speaker. No one else (normal people, not us) would ever know it's a Franken.

Unfortunately if he does do a swap, he may be disappointed with the comparative performance of the 8S.

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 8-s-463 with 10 tubes? Radio chassis 589728
PostPosted: Sep Mon 06, 2021 1:26 am 
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+1. I think I'd just keep the 10-tube chassis and 12-inch speaker in there.

It's part of the radio's history, doesn't change the way it looks, and has a decent chance of sounding better.

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 8-s-463 with 10 tubes? Radio chassis 589728
PostPosted: Sep Sat 18, 2021 3:12 pm 
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palegreenthumb wrote:
+1. I think I'd just keep the 10-tube chassis and 12-inch speaker in there.

It's part of the radio's history, doesn't change the way it looks, and has a decent chance of sounding better.


Getting my shipping list together finally for the 10 tube chassis.... Going off the 1103 chassis schematic... I'm on Just Radios, and all set with my caps, but for resistors I'm seeing values on the schematic like R13, R14 for example, are 220 M and 330 M..

I'm assuming this is 220 megaohm?


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 8-s-463 with 10 tubes? Radio chassis 589728
PostPosted: Sep Sat 18, 2021 3:44 pm 
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No. On old schematics they used "M" for kilohms and "Meg" would indicate megohms.

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 8-s-463 with 10 tubes? Radio chassis 589728
PostPosted: Sep Sat 18, 2021 3:50 pm 
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I'd keep the 10 tube chassis. Think of it as a nice little upgrade. The correct cabinet for the 10 tube chassis isn't nearly as attractive as the cabinet (your cabinet) for the 8 tube chassis. Just restore it and enjoy it for it's great sound.

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 8-s-463 with 10 tubes? Radio chassis 589728
PostPosted: Sep Sat 18, 2021 5:25 pm 
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Might want to "triage" the chassis first. That is testing the power transformer, speaker and its coils as well as the output transformer. Taking resistance readings of the RF & IF coils. Any open coils will have to be addressed...

Do not replace any low value caps in the RF/Osc stage until the set is fully operational unless it is an RF cap failure. Disturbing wires in the Oscillator/RF will require a complete alignment.

"Shotgunning" the chassis with new components and wire can fail from shorts, wiring errors and incorrect component replacement. Unless you are familiar with stage by stage troubleshooting, repair can be difficult.

It is best to set the chassis up so it can not only be refurbished but tested as the work is done. Replacing just two components at a time and testing...

None the less, Good Luck!

Chas

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 8-s-463 with 10 tubes? Radio chassis 589728
PostPosted: Sep Sun 19, 2021 6:20 am 
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Chas, Michael, Rodney...

Thank you for the input! yeah... Definitely keeping the 10 tube chassis... And I know radio circuits are touchy.. I'd like to avoid realigning this set if possible... For now. Still rebuilding the testing / tool stockpile.. I *did* have a nice oscilloscope, signal generator, variac, etc....but no more. Right now only gear is a Lowes Multimeter and a bare variac that I'll. Be mounting in a proper enclosure this week.... Then we see

And YUP.... I learned the downsides of shotgunning recap jobs on tube amps when I. First got started messing with tube gear ... Never had the pleasure of fouling up a nice radio ha ha. . So yup... Even with the cracked rubber wire I will be doing some triage to get a better picture of what I really need to prioritize.

What would have been the factory correct cabinet for this chassis? Just curious.....


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 8-s-463 with 10 tubes? Radio chassis 589728
PostPosted: Sep Sun 19, 2021 12:36 pm 
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http://www.oldradios.com/cgi-bin/zenith.pl


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 8-s-463 with 10 tubes? Radio chassis 589728
PostPosted: Sep Sun 19, 2021 9:06 pm 
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Lou deGonzague wrote:
http://www.oldradios.com/cgi-bin/zenith.pl

Quote:
The oracle says...

Zenith Chassis not on file Information

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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 8-s-463 with 10 tubes? Radio chassis 589728
PostPosted: Sep Mon 20, 2021 2:43 am 
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Hot_rod_audio wrote:
What would have been the factory correct cabinet for this chassis? Just curious.....

Go to RadioMuseum.org and type Zenith 1005 in the Simple search field, then press Go at the end of the line.

When the search result list comes back, press the picture gallery button to see the cabinets that were used with that chassis.

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