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 Post subject: Re: Is eBay Eliminating Last-second Bidding?
PostPosted: Dec Wed 19, 2018 1:16 am 
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Cubdriver wrote:
.. something that will frequently make what you're buying wind up being more expensive than it otherwise might.

It works both ways. If a snipe bot (or live sniper) bids highest in the last 3 seconds and I decide I can dig a little deeper into my pockets, that item just got more expensive for me. Due to the popularity of snipe bots, they frequently make items more expensive.

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In light of that, as a buyer, I want to pay as little as possible for that item.

I'm sure most people would prefer that, but in auctions ya gotta pay to play. If you want the item, bid higher.
All the other mean people who drove the price up grrr :x just wanted it more than you did (unless shill bids were in play), or they could afford it more than you could.


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 Post subject: Re: Is eBay Eliminating Last-second Bidding?
PostPosted: Dec Wed 19, 2018 2:37 am 
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I couldn't disagree with you more, Vin. If the sniper put their max bid into the system a week earlier, there's a much GREATER chance the auction will close at a higher hammer price, than if they put their max bid in as a snipe bid.

-Rodney


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 Post subject: Re: Is eBay Eliminating Last-second Bidding?
PostPosted: Dec Wed 19, 2018 3:16 am 
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Greg G wrote:
When you're watching eBay for a particular item the decision to engage a strategy pretty much depends upon what the item is doesn't it? What if something you've been searching hard for years appears and you know you can't let it get away?


I do just what I normally do - decide what the maximum I'm willing to pay for it is, and place that bid at the last possible moment. The only difference is that my max bid might be higher than it would be for a more readily available thing.

Why pay more than you need to?

-Pat

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 Post subject: Re: Is eBay Eliminating Last-second Bidding?
PostPosted: Dec Wed 19, 2018 3:56 am 
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Vin Tageman wrote:
Cubdriver wrote:
.. something that will frequently make what you're buying wind up being more expensive than it otherwise might.

It works both ways. If a snipe bot (or live sniper) bids highest in the last 3 seconds and I decide I can dig a little deeper into my pockets, that item just got more expensive for me. Due to the popularity of snipe bots, they frequently make items more expensive.

Quote:
In light of that, as a buyer, I want to pay as little as possible for that item.

I'm sure most people would prefer that, but in auctions ya gotta pay to play. If you want the item, bid higher.
All the other mean people who drove the price up grrr :x just wanted it more than you did (unless shill bids were in play), or they could afford it more than you could.


Incremental bidders are very common on eBay in my experience. They make a bid. If it's not high enough, they make another, and another and another, etc.

A hypothetical auction with two bidders. $25 starting price:
Scenario one - your way - you decide it's worth $90 to you, and bid that several days (or even hours) before the auction ends. Joe incrementer comes along and sees $25 price, one bid in place. He bids $27; the proxy bid mechanism bumps your bid to $28. He goes to $30, proxy $31. He goes $35, proxy bumps you to $36. Maybe he gives up at $75; the proxy has you at $76. You win at $76. Maybe he keeps going until he goes over $90, so he's now winning. Either he wins at $91, or perhaps you come back later, see his pattern, bump again and win it for $92.

Scenario two - my way, same $25 starting price. I decide it's worth $90 to me, but I wait. Joe incrementer comes along and bids $27. He's winning, has nothing to chase, and stops. I bid $90 with two seconds to go. I win the auction for $28.

There were four outcomes described above. In one, you win the item for $76. In the second, you don't win the item. In the third, you win the item for $92. In the last, you win the item for $28.

If two snipers go head to head, then yes, the guy who wants it more will win, and that's fine. But if there happens to be limited competition, I see no reason to tip my hand early and let some one else bid up the price if I can avoid it. If someone wants it more than I do, they're probably going to get it. But if it's worth $XX to them, let them bid $XX, not start at the opening bid plus a dollar and go up a buck at a time till they finally reach $XX. Some people like to chase. Don't give them something chase.

Several times for various reasons I've bid earlier than I'd like to (marginal cell signals and that sort of thing making split second timing too risky), and in most cases this has resulted in leaving others time (even in the last few seconds) to increment their bids multiple times, at least once costing an additional $20-something over what it would have been had I bid at the last second rather than with 15-20 seconds left giving someone else time to bump their bid by $2 about ten times. You can't tell me that properly sniping in that instance wouldn't have saved considerable money! (The auction ended at around $75-80, so saving some or all of that $20 would have been a good precentage off.)

-Pat

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 Post subject: Re: Is eBay Eliminating Last-second Bidding?
PostPosted: Dec Wed 19, 2018 4:18 am 
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I agree with Cubdriver on this.

One other point: there are some people who take a perverse pleasure in snatching items away from those who really want them, even if they have little desire to own those items.


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 Post subject: Re: Is eBay Eliminating Last-second Bidding?
PostPosted: Dec Wed 19, 2018 5:21 am 
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Johnnysan wrote:

One other point: there are some people who take a perverse pleasure in snatching items away from those who really want them, even if they have little desire to own those items.

How could you possibly know that?

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 Post subject: Re: Is eBay Eliminating Last-second Bidding?
PostPosted: Dec Wed 19, 2018 6:02 am 
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Cubdriver wrote:
Scenario one - your way - you decide it's worth $90 to you, and bid that several days (or even hours) before the auction ends.

That isn't my way and never has been. I don't bid high early, and more often than not I just watch the item and don't bid at all until the last seconds. Technically, that's sniping, but I don't leave it to a bot to do it for me, hence my previous remark about being actively involved/engaged (as in actually present with my browser, watching and, if necessary, bidding.. live). That's a lot more entertaining for me than the "set it and forget it" Ronco style.


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 Post subject: Re: Is eBay Eliminating Last-second Bidding?
PostPosted: Dec Wed 19, 2018 6:34 am 
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palegreenthumb wrote:
I couldn't disagree with you more, Vin. If the sniper put their max bid into the system a week earlier, there's a much GREATER chance the auction will close at a higher hammer price, than if they put their max bid in as a snipe bid.

No disagreement. Read it again.
VinTageman wrote:
A lot of people who use sniping services will set theirs up days in advance and not even bother to watch the auction, just let the thing slip their bid in on the last 2-3 seconds.

I wasn't saying they send the bid into eBay early. I was saying they set the time on their sniping service for their snipe server to "slip the bid in on the last 2-3 seconds."
This is a selling point of sniping services. A "feature" is that the user can go into their dashboard to set a time for the bot to send the bid in, and this setting can be made at any time in advance, and it can be changed at will during the auction.


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 Post subject: Re: Is eBay Eliminating Last-second Bidding?
PostPosted: Dec Wed 19, 2018 7:27 am 
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Vin Tageman wrote:
Cubdriver wrote:
Scenario one - your way - you decide it's worth $90 to you, and bid that several days (or even hours) before the auction ends.

That isn't my way and never has been. I don't bid high early, and more often than not I just watch the item and don't bid at all until the last seconds. Technically, that's sniping, but I don't leave it to a bot to do it for me, hence my previous remark about being actively involved/engaged (as in actually present with my browser, watching and, if necessary, bidding.. live). That's a lot more entertaining for me than the "set it and forget it" Ronco style.


Oh, so you pretty much snipe, you just do it by hand. In that case we're pretty much in agreement, and I do it by hand, too. I gathered from what you said earlier that you were one of those 'Bid my max early and let the chips fall where they may' types.

-Pat

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 Post subject: Re: Is eBay Eliminating Last-second Bidding?
PostPosted: Dec Wed 19, 2018 10:11 am 
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Well, yeah, the sniping services take their cut, which diminishes the savings. I've never used one; I always snipe-in-person. Learnt that in the boy scouts. :wink:

So... You're saying that snipe 'bots raise closing prices over people who snipe live? Not sure I see that either.

I snipe live because otherwise I would buy too many radios. If I forget to bid in an auction, or can't arrange to be at the computer that moment... Oh well... Wasn't meant to be. That was always how I decided whether to go after the cute girl, too. If I remembered her phone number, that was ONE thing, but if I couldn't remember the number, that was SOMETHING ELSE entirely.


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 Post subject: Re: Is eBay Eliminating Last-second Bidding?
PostPosted: Dec Wed 19, 2018 3:36 pm 
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In my opinion the discussion of snipe or last second bidding are nonsense. The only way to probe that sniping works is to run the same auction with the same people bidding with and without sniping. Proof for the use of sniping as an assure way to get something for the lowest price is anecdotal at best.
If i see something i set a limit of how much i want to spend and i bid that.

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 Post subject: Re: Is eBay Eliminating Last-second Bidding?
PostPosted: Dec Wed 19, 2018 4:54 pm 
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dan3460 wrote:
In my opinion the discussion of snipe or last second bidding are nonsense. The only way to probe that sniping works is to run the same auction with the same people bidding with and without sniping. Proof for the use of sniping as an assure way to get something for the lowest price is anecdotal at best.
If i see something i set a limit of how much i want to spend and i bid that.


I'm curious - when in the auction do you typically bid?

-Pat

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 Post subject: Re: Is eBay Eliminating Last-second Bidding?
PostPosted: Dec Wed 19, 2018 7:23 pm 
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I bid when i see the item, then i figure out how much i'm willing to pay and bid. Don't look at it until is done, sometimes i win sometimes i don't, which is probably the average that snipers do.

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 Post subject: Re: Is eBay Eliminating Last-second Bidding?
PostPosted: Dec Fri 21, 2018 1:11 am 
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dan3460 wrote:
I bid when i see the item, then i figure out how much i'm willing to pay and bid. Don't look at it until is done, sometimes i win sometimes i don't, which is probably the average that snipers do.


I would say with sniping you have a better chance of ending up with the item and possibly at the lowest price but you are at risk of paying a very high price. By placing your highest bid early you will pay a higher price in the end if you win the item and you have a greater risk of not winning the item.


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 Post subject: Re: Is eBay Eliminating Last-second Bidding?
PostPosted: Dec Sat 22, 2018 12:07 am 
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Greg G wrote:
dan3460 wrote:
I bid when i see the item, then i figure out how much i'm willing to pay and bid. Don't look at it until is done, sometimes i win sometimes i don't, which is probably the average that snipers do.


I would say with sniping you have a better chance of ending up with the item and possibly at the lowest price but you are at risk of paying a very high price. By placing your highest bid early you will pay a higher price in the end if you win the item and you have a greater risk of not winning the item.


As i said before, there is no way that you can prove that. The only way to estimate "chances" it will be to run the same auction, with the same people (and the same desire to win the item) with and without sniping. You cannot say that i won this item because of sniping, did you try twin the same item without sniping?

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 Post subject: Re: Is eBay Eliminating Last-second Bidding?
PostPosted: Dec Sat 22, 2018 2:40 am 
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dan3460 wrote:
Greg G wrote:
dan3460 wrote:
I bid when i see the item, then i figure out how much i'm willing to pay and bid. Don't look at it until is done, sometimes i win sometimes i don't, which is probably the average that snipers do.


I would say with sniping you have a better chance of ending up with the item and possibly at the lowest price but you are at risk of paying a very high price. By placing your highest bid early you will pay a higher price in the end if you win the item and you have a greater risk of not winning the item.


As i said before, there is no way that you can prove that. The only way to estimate "chances" it will be to run the same auction, with the same people (and the same desire to win the item) with and without sniping. You cannot say that i won this item because of sniping, did you try twin the same item without sniping?


I've 'proven' it often enough to myself by the fact that in auctions where I've bid early, an incremental bidder has come along and tick, tick, tick bid the auction up a dollar or a few dollars at a time, either increasing the price I've paid for the item, or ultimately outbidding me. And I'm not saying that I WON the item because of sniping (though in many cases it may be true), I'm simply saying that overall, sniping saves me money.

If you've never seen or participated in an auction where there are two bidders and twenty or thirty bids, then perhaps you truly haven't experienced it. If, however, you've ever won an auction and looked at the bid history to see that below your winning bid there were multiple small increment value bids from a single bidder that came one after another jacking up the price until they gave up, then you HAVE experienced an auction where sniping WOULD have saved you money. I would say that perhaps it's not possible to prove to your satisfaction that sniping saves money. It is, however, easy to prove in auctions with incremental bidders bumping up the price that bidding early COSTS you money.

That being said, it's your money to spend as you see fit. I personally don't need a scientific study to tell me that sniping can save me money - I've seen NOT sniping increase final costs often enough to realize that it does.

-Pat

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 Post subject: Re: Is eBay Eliminating Last-second Bidding?
PostPosted: Dec Sat 22, 2018 4:09 am 
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You just prove my point, is just anecdotal information.

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 Post subject: Re: Is eBay Eliminating Last-second Bidding?
PostPosted: Dec Sat 22, 2018 4:30 am 
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Cubdriver wrote:
dan3460 wrote:
Greg G wrote:

I would say with sniping you have a better chance of ending up with the item and possibly at the lowest price but you are at risk of paying a very high price. By placing your highest bid early you will pay a higher price in the end if you win the item and you have a greater risk of not winning the item.


As i said before, there is no way that you can prove that. The only way to estimate "chances" it will be to run the same auction, with the same people (and the same desire to win the item) with and without sniping. You cannot say that i won this item because of sniping, did you try twin the same item without sniping?


I've 'proven' it often enough to myself by the fact that in auctions where I've bid early, an incremental bidder has come along and tick, tick, tick bid the auction up a dollar or a few dollars at a time, either increasing the price I've paid for the item, or ultimately outbidding me. And I'm not saying that I WON the item because of sniping (though in many cases it may be true), I'm simply saying that overall, sniping saves me money.

If you've never seen or participated in an auction where there are two bidders and twenty or thirty bids, then perhaps you truly haven't experienced it. If, however, you've ever won an auction and looked at the bid history to see that below your winning bid there were multiple small increment value bids from a single bidder that came one after another jacking up the price until they gave up, then you HAVE experienced an auction where sniping WOULD have saved you money. I would say that perhaps it's not possible to prove to your satisfaction that sniping saves money. It is, however, easy to prove in auctions with incremental bidders bumping up the price that bidding early COSTS you money.

That being said, it's your money to spend as you see fit. I personally don't need a scientific study to tell me that sniping can save me money - I've seen NOT sniping increase final costs often enough to realize that it does.

-Pat

That's been my experience as well, but I don't think you'll convince him.

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 Post subject: Re: Is eBay Eliminating Last-second Bidding?
PostPosted: Dec Sat 22, 2018 5:43 am 
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fifties wrote:
That's been my experience as well, but I don't think you'll convince him.


T'would appear not. <shrug> His money. If I were selling things, I'd much prefer to have folks who think like that bid on my stuff.

I look at it as a theory. All I have to support my theory is anecdotal evidence, but until someone can show me some evidence to the contrary, I think it would be foolish of me to go against the evidence I've seen and what I've experienced so far.

I *used* to bid my max early, too. And frequently either lost auctions to incremental bidders, or wound up paying a lot more than I otherwise might have as a result of incremental bidders. I stopped bidding early, and started sniping. I don't lose to incremental bidders now. I certainly don't win every auction, but I also don't have people nibbling away at my max bid. Anecdotal? Yup. Can someone prove it costs me more to do it this way, or even put forth a logical theory as to why doing it this way might cost me more? Bring it on! I'll listen. Until then, I'll snipe.

-Pat

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 Post subject: Re: Is eBay Eliminating Last-second Bidding?
PostPosted: Dec Sat 22, 2018 10:01 am 
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Early in my eBay history, I lost one auction to a shill, and I had another bumped up by a shill before the auction ended. Both times, I contacted eBay with the evidence. Ebay never replied to me, but within 24 hours the seller's account, the shill's account, and all the for-sale listings of both were cancelled by eBay. Poof, gone, like they never existed.

That was enough to convince me that revealing your interest to a seller early is not a good idea. I have sniped ever since. I don't win every auction either. It's a little frustrating, because when I lose, it always looks like I lost by one bid increment. But at least I am confident I am not being ripped off by shillers... Especially since the majority of reports indicate that eBay doesn't pursue shill bidders anymore.


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