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 Post subject: 1914 Deforest radio
PostPosted: Aug Wed 28, 2019 11:02 pm 
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https://www.ebay.com/itm/DeForest-RJ4-1 ... SwfuddZtQ1
I like it, but don't know enough to make any further comments on it. I'm curious what the experts think about it.


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 Post subject: Re: 1914 Deforest radio
PostPosted: Aug Wed 28, 2019 11:44 pm 
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I'll be surprised if the seller gets anywhere near $9000 and the $250 shipping is way out of line. I have serious doubts about it being grandpa's too. That said, you never know what someone will pay.

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 Post subject: Re: 1914 Deforest radio
PostPosted: Aug Thu 29, 2019 12:48 am 
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I question the hogged out holes on top view.
Most examples have 5 taps for B battery, not 3.
My RJ9 has brass solder lugs behind the posts .
I thought there should be a grid condenser inside the box, and a slot inside that the battery partition slides in to.

The other differences the seller mentions.


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 Post subject: Re: 1914 Deforest radio
PostPosted: Aug Thu 29, 2019 5:34 am 
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Location: Phoenix, AZ 85085
grid-leak wrote:
Most examples have 5 taps for B battery, not 3.

I thought there should be a grid condenser inside the box, and a slot inside that the battery partition slides in to.



Yes, this is the first version of the "DeForest" RJ4 which had 3 battery tap switches instead of the later 5. It was also tagged as the Radio Telephone & Telegraph Co. Here is an early bulletin printed as The Radio Telephone Co. and then stamped over.
Only later RJ4 boxes had the wooden partition for the batteries.
Alan

Attachment:
USA_DeForest_RJ4 1914 Bulletin-1 arf.jpg
USA_DeForest_RJ4 1914 Bulletin-1 arf.jpg [ 347.25 KiB | Viewed 854 times ]


Note that the first advertisement for the RJ4 used the advertising cut Wallace & Co. used on their detector box they had been building since 1911.
Attachment:
USA_DeForest_RJ4 1913 Bulletin-1 arf.jpg
USA_DeForest_RJ4 1913 Bulletin-1 arf.jpg [ 181.97 KiB | Viewed 854 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: 1914 Deforest radio
PostPosted: Aug Thu 29, 2019 2:16 pm 
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Location: S. Dartmouth MA 02748-1225 USA
I find the battery "bank" interesting. The eBay auction model has what appears to be the 4-1/2 volt flashlight cell, obviously soldered connections. Though not clear, it appears that the batteries are all in series and tapped for "A" & "B".
<<< The amateur station in my avatar is from 1909, very local about 3 miles away.

I have an original high rez scan, Uncle Tony has a lot of gear wired up. Some I recognize, some I do not.

Thanks all for posting the info...

Chas

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 Post subject: Re: 1914 Deforest radio
PostPosted: Aug Thu 29, 2019 4:03 pm 
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Chas wrote:
I find the battery "bank" interesting. The eBay auction model has what appears to be the 4-1/2 volt flashlight cell, obviously soldered connections. Though not clear, it appears that the batteries are all in series and tapped for "A" & "B".

Chas


I didn't trace out the battery wiring on the eBay RJ4 but I do have the schematic for the three position version as it was supposed to be wired.
Alan
Attachment:
early RJ4 Schematic arf.jpg
early RJ4 Schematic arf.jpg [ 324.95 KiB | Viewed 786 times ]


Yes they used 4 1/2 volt flashlight batteries. Here is an example of an original one.
Attachment:
Franco 1042 battery arf.jpg
Franco 1042 battery arf.jpg [ 319.85 KiB | Viewed 786 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: 1914 Deforest radio
PostPosted: Aug Thu 29, 2019 9:44 pm 
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Location: S. Dartmouth MA 02748-1225 USA
Al,
Thanks!
Back in the late 70's I had a chance at an RJ-4 at an antique dealer in Chatham. I could not get a price from him as he was unsure. So was I, as I had no reference material to exactly identify what I was looking at...Time and family got in the way, when I got back to him months later, it was gone, despite leaving contact information. The fellow apparently had some memory issues :?

Chas

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 Post subject: Re: 1914 Deforest radio
PostPosted: Aug Thu 29, 2019 10:02 pm 
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Location: Plymouth, MI
Interesting information guys, thanks for posting.

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 Post subject: Re: 1914 Deforest radio
PostPosted: Aug Thu 29, 2019 10:27 pm 
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I wonder what they listened to with these, prior to 1920 when KDKA began commercial broadcasting.

I would imagine it was like SWL, tuning around to see if a random signal could be heard, on the frequencies it would receive.

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 Post subject: Re: 1914 Deforest radio
PostPosted: Aug Fri 30, 2019 10:34 am 
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fifties wrote:
I wonder what they listened to with these, prior to 1920 when KDKA began commercial broadcasting.

I would imagine it was like SWL, tuning around to see if a random signal could be heard, on the frequencies it would receive.

I know that Charles Herrold started regular programming of voice and music in 1912 in San Jose. Maybe there was some others that followed, but it would have just served local listeners.
Other than that I guess most just listened to ship-to-shore Morse-code. I heard just that alone fascinated pioneer radio listeners in those early days.
By the way, does anyone know what the Deforest radio originally sold for with the audion tube?


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 Post subject: Re: 1914 Deforest radio
PostPosted: Aug Fri 30, 2019 2:40 pm 
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Location: Phoenix, AZ 85085
decojoe67 wrote:
fifties wrote:
I wonder what they listened to with these, prior to 1920 when KDKA began commercial broadcasting.

I would imagine it was like SWL, tuning around to see if a random signal could be heard, on the frequencies it would receive.

I know that Charles Herrold started regular programming of voice and music in 1912 in San Jose. Maybe there was some others that followed, but it would have just served local listeners.
Other than that I guess most just listened to ship-to-shore Morse-code. I heard just that alone fascinated pioneer radio listeners in those early days.
By the way, does anyone know what the Deforest radio originally sold for with the audion tube?


These early RJ4 detectors were used by the early Hams, usually to listen to other fellow hams. The RJ4 replaced the crystal detector in these early stations. Spark transmitters were used for transmission. The RJ4 was just a detector box with the plate batteries inside and was not a "radio." The RJ4 required some type of tuner which was usually a loose coupler in those early stations. The RJ4 sold for $18 in 1914 which included an Audion. Renewal Audion bulbs were available in two grades of Audion: S and X. S was the regular grade, having passed a test of sensitivity to weak signals when compared with a standard, the most sensitive crystal detector available. X grade bulbs were ones that exhibited significantly higher sensitivity than the standard.
Alan

Attachment:
USA_DeForest_RJ4 1914 Bulletin B14-2 arf.jpg
USA_DeForest_RJ4 1914 Bulletin B14-2 arf.jpg [ 521.3 KiB | Viewed 645 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: 1914 Deforest radio
PostPosted: Aug Fri 30, 2019 5:45 pm 
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bigalarsen wrote:
These early RJ4 detectors were used by the early Hams, usually to listen to other fellow hams. The RJ4 replaced the crystal detector in these early stations. Spark transmitters were used for transmission. The RJ4 was just a detector box with the plate batteries inside and was not a "radio." The RJ4 required some type of tuner which was usually a loose coupler in those early stations. The RJ4 sold for $18 in 1914 which included an Audion. Renewal Audion bulbs were available in two grades of Audion: S and X. S was the regular grade, having passed a test of sensitivity to weak signals when compared with a standard, the most sensitive crystal detector available. X grade bulbs were ones that exhibited significantly higher sensitivity than the standard.
Alan

Thank you Alan. I jumped to conclusions that it was a radio. I should've realized there was no tuning. So spending $18 in 1914 would be like spending almost $500 today. Not terribly expensive for state of the art equipment.


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 Post subject: Re: 1914 Deforest radio
PostPosted: Sep Sun 22, 2019 2:41 am 
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Location: Phoenix, AZ 85085
The RJ-4 was relisted. The seller apparently offered free shipping and a Best Offer option and it is now sold. I wonder how much it went for?
Alan

https://www.ebay.com/bfl/viewbids/254356024871?item=254356024871&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2565


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 Post subject: Re: 1914 Deforest radio
PostPosted: Sep Sun 22, 2019 3:29 am 
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Joined: Mar Fri 28, 2008 2:49 pm
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Location: Phoenix, AZ 85085
I answered my own question. The RJ-4 sold for $8,000. It is interesting that the bid history on my desktop only showed the Best Offer $9,000 while the bid history on my Samsung Note phone showed the actual $8,000 bid.
Alan
Attachment:
USA_Radio Telephone_RJ4 Audion Detector-bid arf.jpg
USA_Radio Telephone_RJ4 Audion Detector-bid arf.jpg [ 122.84 KiB | Viewed 404 times ]


Since this is a rather rare piece I thought I should add a few of the auction pictures.
Attachment:
USA_Radio Telephone_RJ4 Audion Detector-1 arf.jpg
USA_Radio Telephone_RJ4 Audion Detector-1 arf.jpg [ 327.42 KiB | Viewed 404 times ]


The early Radio Telephone tag.
Attachment:
USA_Radio Telephone_RJ4 Audion Detector-2 arf.jpg
USA_Radio Telephone_RJ4 Audion Detector-2 arf.jpg [ 318.24 KiB | Viewed 404 times ]


Internal battery array.
Attachment:
USA_Radio Telephone_RJ4 Audion Detector-3 arf.jpg
USA_Radio Telephone_RJ4 Audion Detector-3 arf.jpg [ 290.68 KiB | Viewed 404 times ]

Attachment:
USA_Radio Telephone_RJ4 Audion Detector-4 arf.jpg
USA_Radio Telephone_RJ4 Audion Detector-4 arf.jpg [ 375.44 KiB | Viewed 404 times ]


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