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 Post subject: G & F Searchlight Radio
PostPosted: Sep Tue 03, 2019 12:18 pm 
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Joined: Nov Mon 13, 2006 6:01 pm
Posts: 58
Location: Worcester, MA
I have owned 4 G&F Searchlight radios over time, so I know my way around this radio.

I was curious when a came across an eBay listing for this novelty radio:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Estate-Find-Vintage-G-F-Searchlight-Radio-Rare-G-F-Tube-radio/113873878638?hash=item1a83697e6e:g:l2EAAOSw-FJdbISt

On inspection, I found the following defects:

(1.) The back panel is homebrew without proper cutouts.
(2.) Radio originally came with 2 knobs, not 3 and all knobs are incorrect;
(3.) The metal backplate on the front is not original to the radio;
(4.) Grille cloth is an incorrect replacement; and
(5.) Chassis and speaker are incorrect.

I emailed the seller and we had several exchanges. I explained the defects and told him to at the very lease disclose that the chassis/speaker are incorrect. The G&F was made in a relatively short production run and I am not aware of another radio it shares the same chassis, so the likelihood of finding the correct electronics will be difficult unless someone has the electronics and a damaged cabinet.

The seller made no alternations of the radio description. The auction price level as I write is $326. The radio in its current state is worth that. However, if the radio ultimately sells for more than $1,000+, the lack of proper disclose influenced this auction price.

Let’s watch and see.

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Bill Whelan
catalinstore.com
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 Post subject: Re: G & F Searchlight Radio
PostPosted: Sep Tue 03, 2019 4:56 pm 
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Joined: Aug Tue 28, 2018 9:22 pm
Posts: 1475
Location: Sanford Fla 32771
Did a quick research, is this the proper back and chassis ? If so, I hope any buyer does a little research.. This one is on ebay for $4000 and still may not be correct.https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-G-F-Se ... 7c744815b8


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 Post subject: Re: G & F Searchlight Radio
PostPosted: Sep Tue 03, 2019 5:13 pm 
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Joined: Aug Mon 20, 2012 12:23 pm
Posts: 1629
Location: Groveland MA
I noticed what seems to be a green and red mask behind the dial. Is that original?
These are very interesting radios, I will probably never own one but they are nice to look at.

Russ

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 Post subject: Re: G & F Searchlight Radio
PostPosted: Sep Tue 03, 2019 5:32 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 28228
Location: Detroit, MI USA
The patent plate on the chassis in the radio which Paul posted shows the number 25- in front of the serial number. That was the identifier of Pacific Radio in Chicago. Were they the actual manufacturer of the searchlight radios, or did they sell chassis to G&F? Or is that a replacement chassis in a G&F cabinet?

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 Post subject: Re: G & F Searchlight Radio
PostPosted: Sep Wed 04, 2019 2:29 am 
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Joined: Dec Mon 11, 2017 12:30 am
Posts: 191
Thanks Bill
I see your point but people have the right to sell anything they want for whatever price they can get. Just because a quote expert tells them what's wrong with a radio doesn't mean they should trust your input. So tell me this if you see a radio on line that is grossly under valued do you contact that seller and offer them a far greater amount? Just curious because most collectors I've seen here would not. I saw the same radio and most of what you mentioned was wrong as well but I'm not going to be one of those "guys" who has to point out all the flaws so I can grab it at my price. This all comes from my experience dealing with "guys" like you. Forgive the rant but this burns my butt


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 Post subject: Re: G & F Searchlight Radio
PostPosted: Sep Wed 04, 2019 12:34 pm 
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Joined: Jul Fri 10, 2009 10:13 pm
Posts: 1149
Location: Weymouth,Massachusetts
Don't know what happened to my other post but ... It is not a G&F but a Franken radio that is being misrepresented and a case for Item not as Decribed and a full refund from E-Bay. That is what the seller needs to know in my opinion.
Henry


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 Post subject: Re: G & F Searchlight Radio
PostPosted: Sep Wed 04, 2019 2:14 pm 
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Joined: Sep Thu 14, 2006 3:27 pm
Posts: 12657
Location: Carmel, Indiana
Looking at the seller's past auctions leads me to believe that he is simply a flipper of general collectables. All of the details being presented to him, about his radio, are most likely just going right over his head. Judging from the auction's description, it looks like the seller tried to describe all that he was aware about it. I'm guessing he has a lot invested in that radio so he's probably in no rush in updating his description. The auction already has 5 bidders vying for it so I can only assume they must know what their bidding on. This auction is a classic case of buyer beware.

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 Post subject: Re: G & F Searchlight Radio
PostPosted: Sep Wed 04, 2019 9:52 pm 
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Joined: Jan Tue 23, 2018 11:53 pm
Posts: 201
Location: Appleton, WI 54914
I like to learn something new, and be truthful...but I have had "experts" tell me about my item that was 100% incorrect...while ranting and raving. If you are interested in it, I'll gladly answer anything...if you want to educate me....HMMMM.


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 Post subject: Re: G & F Searchlight Radio
PostPosted: Sep Thu 05, 2019 1:09 pm 
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Joined: Jan Mon 18, 2010 2:13 am
Posts: 19939
Location: Dayton Ohio
So, I'm gathering that it is unacceptable to point out whats wrong with a radio that is up for sale?

Personally, I appreciate such info pointed out.
How accurate the criticism is, can be debated on a case by case basis, but most people are simply trying to help out the unaware.

-Steve

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 Post subject: Re: G & F Searchlight Radio
PostPosted: Sep Thu 05, 2019 2:48 pm 
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Joined: Mar Thu 13, 2014 1:29 am
Posts: 1266
Location: Buffalo NY
IMHO - If youre willing to shell out serious coin for an item, you should know what you're looking at and bidding on. To me, the written description is more for defects that can't be seen in the photos . The fact it is the completely wrong chassis is a glaringly obvious flaw to anyone who knows what they're looking for / at - which would lead me to believe the bidders don't really care, they just want a searchlight, or want it more as a decorator piece than a historically accurate radio. Maybe they'd be happy to settle for a $400 - $500 incorrect one because they don't have pockets deep enough to shell out thousands for a correct one. There are a lot of variables in any auction, but I don't see seller dishonesty as being one in this case.

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 Post subject: Re: G & F Searchlight Radio
PostPosted: Sep Thu 05, 2019 9:05 pm 
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Joined: Dec Mon 11, 2017 12:30 am
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Well said Bob,


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 Post subject: Re: G & F Searchlight Radio
PostPosted: Sep Thu 05, 2019 9:29 pm 
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Joined: Jan Sun 18, 2009 1:40 am
Posts: 3217
Location: Lexington, KY
azenithnut wrote:
So, I'm gathering that it is unacceptable to point out whats wrong with a radio that is up for sale?

Personally, I appreciate such info pointed out.
How accurate the criticism is, can be debated on a case by case basis, but most people are simply trying to help out the unaware.....
+1

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 Post subject: Re: G & F Searchlight Radio
PostPosted: Sep Thu 05, 2019 9:37 pm 
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Joined: Jan Tue 23, 2018 11:53 pm
Posts: 201
Location: Appleton, WI 54914
azenithnut wrote:
So, I'm gathering that it is unacceptable to point out whats wrong with a radio that is up for sale?

Personally, I appreciate such info pointed out.
How accurate the criticism is, can be debated on a case by case basis, but most people are simply trying to help out the unaware.

-Steve


Steve, I agree about learning something and helping. In the few cases it has happened sometimes that is true, but in the case of the last one, by someone who reconditions IT/computers and has nothing to do w/ vintage radios, that was not the case. The message i received...
"you say nonworking." Then you list it as "used" instead of "for parts or not working" and ask the price of one that works?
I guess you've stopped valuing your 100% feedback rating. If someone doesn't read the description completely, they could buy it expecting it to work based on the price and condition. Technically you did nothing wrong, but you're still likely to receive neutral or negative feedback for your slippery listing. The one that's listed for auction with an opening bid of $9.99 is listed as "used" as well. I'm going to tell him the same thing. I guess this is the new greasy way of listing old stuff that doesn't work. Not me, brother. These are examples of "for parts or not working" items. I wouldn't risk my 100% feedback rating on legal trickery".

My response..."Thanks for assumptions. Have a great day."

His follow up..."I was wrong. The item condition choices change based on the item category.
I learned that after sending the note.
In the "collectibles" category "new" and "used" are the only choices.
With that in mind, you made the right choice.
Beyond "used" it's up to you to describe it accurately or risk a return.
I sell mostly IT stuff where there are more choices and "used" means the item works."

My response..."Have been selling vintage on eBay since 2000 (including 100's of radios) w/ 100% FB. Regards."


He obviously had no interest in the radio, just wanted to flex his "knowledge" Sorry, that was annoying.


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 Post subject: Re: G & F Searchlight Radio
PostPosted: Sep Thu 05, 2019 11:02 pm 
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Joined: Jan Mon 18, 2010 2:13 am
Posts: 19939
Location: Dayton Ohio
Oh, I meant here on the Antique radio Forums.

Only once or twice have i ever contacted a seller on ebay to point out an error in their listing, and I try to be polite and respectful.
That was VERY annoying, and unfortunately, many people just have zero tact! :x

-Steve

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-Pre-War FM
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 Post subject: Re: G & F Searchlight Radio
PostPosted: Sep Thu 05, 2019 11:35 pm 
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Joined: Aug Tue 28, 2018 9:22 pm
Posts: 1475
Location: Sanford Fla 32771
One of the misleading listings, I contacted this seller, but don't remember if any changes were made, long time ago. Note the listing says "Powers On". Maybe the voice coil and spider were intact ??


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 Post subject: Re: G & F Searchlight Radio
PostPosted: Sep Fri 06, 2019 3:34 pm 
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Joined: Nov Mon 13, 2006 6:01 pm
Posts: 58
Location: Worcester, MA
kurt1618 wrote:
Thanks Bill
I see your point but people have the right to sell anything they want for whatever price they can get. Just because a quote expert tells them what's wrong with a radio doesn't mean they should trust your input. So tell me this if you see a radio on line that is grossly under valued do you contact that seller and offer them a far greater amount? Just curious because most collectors I've seen here would not. I saw the same radio and most of what you mentioned was wrong as well but I'm not going to be one of those "guys" who has to point out all the flaws so I can grab it at my price. This all comes from my experience dealing with "guys" like you. Forgive the rant but this burns my butt


Hi Kurt- Thank you for the great question. I buy and sell radios on a daily basis, so I am tested in my opinion of a buyer’s and seller’s responsibility in a deal. My comments below use a radio auction as an example. Here are my thoughts on respective responsibilities:

Online Seller’s Responsibility-

(1.) PICTURED-
A seller is responsible for providing a series of sharp and well-lit pictures of the radio. This includes a fontal picture, oblique left, oblique right, frontal angled picture of the top, back (w/ and w/o back panel optional) and bottom. The pictures should include close up of any defects.

(2.) DESCRIPTION-
If the seller is not familiar with what they are selling, a quick online search should be
Done. Google is rich with pictures and information about most radios. This research will give the seller good information to create a meaningful description of the make/model radio. Then, the seller needs to take a close look at the radio and prepare of defects.

(3.) PRICE-
Seller's determines the price as best they can for a fixed auction and know what offer level to accept. If the seller undervalues or overvalues what they are selling, this is not an ethical dilemma for the buyer.

Online Buyer’s Responsibility-


(1.) KNOWLEDGE BASE-
A buyer must be well researched on the radio they intend to buy, knowing the market value and the areas where potential defects may exist.

(2.) RISK-
Online buyers face a reasonable risk when buying from a seller that is not a radio hobbyist. Lower quality pictures, lack of defect disclosure, and packing problems are among the greatest risks. These concerns must be considered when a seller is deciding on a bid, BIN or BO amount.

(3.) QUESTIONS-
Buyers are responsible for asking all questions of the seller before they begin the buying stage of the deal. As an example, when a buyer identifies a Catalin radio they are interested in buying, it is imperative to ask the following questions and secure an agreement relative to packing:

“Hi. I am interested in this radio and need 2 questions answered before I will consider whether or not I will buy it.

CONDITION-
Does this Catalin radio, its cabinet, and trim have any cracks, chips, nicks, hairlines, tube burns, cabinet warpage, repairs or reproduction parts?

PACKING-
Do you agree to pack this radio according to the instructions below?

• Double-box packing;
• Do not use Styrofoam peanuts;
• Cocoon wrap radio on all surfaces with 4” of bubble wrap;
• Place wrapped radio in the interior box so it sits snuggly (not too tight)
• Line exterior carton with 2” of insulating material on all 6 sides (Styrofoam plank best choice);
• Place the interior box in exterior carton with insulation in voided space between boxes so it fits snuggly; and
• Insure radio for the full purchase price.

Please send a reply email confirming radio condition and your acceptance of packing instruction.”

(4.) PRICE-
If a buyer finds a radio auction that is underpriced or the seller accepts a low offer, that is a win for the buyer.

(5.) PAYMENT-
When a buyer buys a radio, payment should be made immediately.

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Bill Whelan
catalinstore.com
Catalin Radio Sales


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 Post subject: Re: G & F Searchlight Radio
PostPosted: Sep Fri 06, 2019 3:45 pm 
Member

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 8411
Location: 13 Critchley Avenue, PO Box 36, Monteith Ont, P0K 1P0
andyjon100 wrote:
IMHO - If youre willing to shell out serious coin for an item, you should know what you're looking at and bidding on. To me, the written description is more for defects that can't be seen in the photos . The fact it is the completely wrong chassis is a glaringly obvious flaw to anyone who knows what they're looking for / at - which would lead me to believe the bidders don't really care, they just want a searchlight, or want it more as a decorator piece than a historically accurate radio. Maybe they'd be happy to settle for a $400 - $500 incorrect one because they don't have pockets deep enough to shell out thousands for a correct one. There are a lot of variables in any auction, but I don't see seller dishonesty as being one in this case.



Yup, I agree. This seller doesn't say that he is selling an XXXX radio. He says that he searched Google and as far as he can tell this is an XXXX radio. I think that buyers are abusing the eBay system and are expecting their lack of effort to be repaired and financed by the sellers when they find they've made a bad buy.

I don't see anything wring with this sale that a self-educated buyer wouldn't be aware of.


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 Post subject: Re: G & F Searchlight Radio
PostPosted: Sep Fri 06, 2019 3:50 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 8411
Location: 13 Critchley Avenue, PO Box 36, Monteith Ont, P0K 1P0
OldRadioCrazy.com wrote:
Here are my thoughts on respective responsibilities:



When I apply your list to this sale, I see no issues with the sale. The seller makes it clear that he doesn't "know" what he has and that his info comes from a google search .... can't get much more honest than that. All the rest seems to be in line with your expectations? Photos? starting price? etc?


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 Post subject: Re: G & F Searchlight Radio
PostPosted: Sep Fri 06, 2019 4:16 pm 
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Joined: Nov Mon 13, 2006 6:01 pm
Posts: 58
Location: Worcester, MA
John Bartley wrote:
OldRadioCrazy.com wrote:
Here are my thoughts on respective responsibilities:



When I apply your list to this sale, I see no issues with the sale. The seller makes it clear that he doesn't "know" what he has and that his info comes from a google search .... can't get much more honest than that. All the rest seems to be in line with your expectations? Photos? starting price? etc?



Hi John- At the outset of the auction, granted he knew nothing about the radio and however, there is no way he did a google search for this radio. There are plenty of materials and images of it online. Beyond that, he was made aware of the facts concerning the radio and did not add this critical, newfound information to his auction. If he doubted my facts, a quick search of google images for the G&F Searchlight would prove to him my facts were correct. So in my mind, the auction lacks integrity and represents a failure to disclose. Ultimately, he did not attend to the sellers responsibility as I defined them earlier.

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Bill Whelan
catalinstore.com
Catalin Radio Sales


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 Post subject: Re: G & F Searchlight Radio
PostPosted: Sep Fri 06, 2019 4:35 pm 
Member

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 8411
Location: 13 Critchley Avenue, PO Box 36, Monteith Ont, P0K 1P0
OldRadioCrazy.com wrote:
John Bartley wrote:
OldRadioCrazy.com wrote:
Here are my thoughts on respective responsibilities:



When I apply your list to this sale, I see no issues with the sale. The seller makes it clear that he doesn't "know" what he has and that his info comes from a google search .... can't get much more honest than that. All the rest seems to be in line with your expectations? Photos? starting price? etc?



Hi John- At the outset of the auction, granted he knew nothing about the radio and however, there is no way he did a google search for this radio. There are plenty of materials and images of it online. Beyond that, he was made aware of the facts concerning the radio and did not add this critical, newfound information to his auction. If he doubted my facts, a quick search of google images for the G&F Searchlight would prove to him my facts were correct. So in my mind, the auction lacks integrity and represents a failure to disclose. Ultimately, he did not attend to the sellers responsibility as I defined them earlier.


I disagree. You have three criteria : Photos, Knowledge, Price. He posted photos, he admitted he is not knowledgeable and he set a starting price. I don't think there's any reason for you to set standards for anyone other than yourself, so if he doesn't meet your standards, that's too bad. He has not lied nor has he mislead anyone by making deliberately ambiguous statements. He is not under any obligation to do any research or to be an expert about the items he sells. Your expectations do not create obligations for others.

cheers


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