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 Post subject: Surgisters?
PostPosted: Nov Wed 06, 2019 4:26 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 8628
Location: Litchfield Minnesota USA
I have four home built audio amplifiers that I built over the years back in the '70s. In order to keep a surge on power up I added mechanical devices that were called Surgisters.
All of them have since failed and I have no idea of what to replace them with. I'm sure there is something out there, but I don't know how to find them. I've googled Surgister and came up with Peavy company but this computer doesn't play well with their site.
I need a source for four - maybe five - Surgisters or something comparable. Every time I power up these amps I cringe and hope it doesn't kill the amp.

Anyone have an idea?
Mark D.


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 Post subject: Re: Surgisters?
PostPosted: Nov Wed 06, 2019 4:38 pm 
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Mark

Look up Thermistor on the internet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermistor

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 Post subject: Re: Surgisters?
PostPosted: Nov Wed 06, 2019 4:46 pm 
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How about Mouser or DigiKey.


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 Post subject: Re: Surgisters?
PostPosted: Nov Wed 06, 2019 4:52 pm 
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Joined: Sep Tue 30, 2014 6:08 am
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Location: Norfolk, VA
And eBay still coughs up Surgistors occasionally.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-VINTAGE-WU ... 4354607594

I've got a Fisher receiver with one, and an old tube Motorola TV with one. They have a longer surge period than modern thermistors used for inrush current limiting. The CL-90 is sufficient for most AA5 radios, but larger current amplifiers, receivers and large tube count radios will need one rated for more. I've used CL-40s in such with no problems.

CL-40:

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Am ... W3GA%3D%3D

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 Post subject: Re: Surgisters?
PostPosted: Nov Wed 06, 2019 6:08 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 8628
Location: Litchfield Minnesota USA
Norm Leal wrote:
Mark

Look up Thermistor on the internet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermistor


That is exactly what I did before I came here.

And eBay still coughs up Surgistors occasionally.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-VINTAGE-WU ... 4354607594

I've got a Fisher receiver with one, and an old tube Motorola TV with one. They have a longer surge period than modern thermistors used for inrush current limiting. The CL-90 is sufficient for most AA5 radios, but larger current amplifiers, receivers and large tube count radios will need one rated for more. I've used CL-40s in such with no problems.

CL-40:

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Am ... W3GA%3D%3D
And eBay still coughs up Surgistors occasionally.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-VINTAGE-WU ... 4354607594

I've got a Fisher receiver with one, and an old tube Motorola TV with one. They have a longer surge period than modern thermistors used for inrush current limiting. The CL-90 is sufficient for most AA5 radios, but larger current amplifiers, receivers and large tube count radios will need one rated for more. I've used CL-40s in such with no problems.

CL-40:

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Am ... W3GA%3D%3D
I'll go with this and see how far I get.
Thank you
Mark D.


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 Post subject: Re: Surgisters?
PostPosted: Nov Wed 06, 2019 6:55 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 8628
Location: Litchfield Minnesota USA
Thanks for the link!! I went into Mouser and ordered 10 of them to have some for other projects. I need four for the four amps, the other six will go elsewhere.
I really didn't want to get more of those Surgistor's because they were never all that reliable. Over the years I had to keep adjusting them. And if the bi-metal didn't make contact the wire wound resistor would over heat. To put it bluntly, they were helpful when working, but were a pain in the rear.

Mark D.


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 Post subject: Re: Surgisters?
PostPosted: Nov Wed 06, 2019 7:26 pm 
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Joined: Sep Tue 30, 2014 6:08 am
Posts: 4910
Location: Norfolk, VA
Mark D wrote:
Thanks for the link!! I went into Mouser and ordered 10 of them to have some for other projects. I need four for the four amps, the other six will go elsewhere.
I really didn't want to get more of those Surgistor's because they were never all that reliable. Over the years I had to keep adjusting them. And if the bi-metal didn't make contact the wire wound resistor would over heat. To put it bluntly, they were helpful when working, but were a pain in the rear.

Mark D.



SUrgistors - a 19th century solution to a 20th century problem. 8) :mrgreen:

I've got one spare that will never be used. If any of my surgistors fail, I'll go the Inrush Current Limiter route. I have several dozen of the higher current rating stuff, used in my side work repairing industrial controls and supplies.

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 Post subject: Re: Surgisters?
PostPosted: Nov Thu 07, 2019 1:01 pm 
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Joined: Nov Wed 30, 2016 7:35 pm
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Location: Sunbury, Ohio 43074
You could get REALLY creative and use a system that one of the broadcast cameras used 'back in the day' .... a series (three, if memory serves) of SCR's that would fire in sequence, about a second apart, with dropping resistors. I do not remember any details about the circuit other than it was on the primary side of the power transformer. Essentially the electronic equivalent of three relays in series that would switch in (or out, in this case) dropping resistors.

If anyone has a manual for an Ikegami 3 plumbicon studio camera from the 70s...... look it up. muahahahaha

hey, why not actually USE relays?? ;-)

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 Post subject: Re: Surgisters?
PostPosted: Nov Thu 07, 2019 1:20 pm 
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Joined: Sep Tue 30, 2014 6:08 am
Posts: 4910
Location: Norfolk, VA
Barry H Bennett wrote:
You could get REALLY creative and use a system that one of the broadcast cameras used 'back in the day' .... a series (three, if memory serves) of SCR's that would fire in sequence, about a second apart, with dropping resistors. I do not remember any details about the circuit other than it was on the primary side of the power transformer. Essentially the electronic equivalent of three relays in series that would switch in (or out, in this case) dropping resistors.

If anyone has a manual for an Ikegami 3 plumbicon studio camera from the 70s...... look it up. muahahahaha

hey, why not actually USE relays?? ;-)


I've seen the SCR system in some industrial machines. Usually a six-zero cross arrangement, where the AC sine wave has to cross the zero point for the next SCR to fire, shorting out a section of a large resistor until the full voltage is achieved. 3 phase systems have a total of 18 SCRs that have to fire.....It's mostly used to prevent "dips" in the AC line from a large load as well as protecting the machine turning on. The load resistor in such is usually a flat sheet of steel, cut in such a way to produce individual sections that act as high-current/wattage, low resistance resistors. A dip in the line can actually harm other machines, cause them to drop out, or cause plant lighting to flicker/go out.

If one of the SCRs opens up, the machine will still work for a while, until the resistor either opens up, or causes an overtemp.

Relays? Like the Amperite time delay relays? Almost every Tek 500 series scope used one, IIRC. A lot of industrial stuff too, for soft start - get the heaters on, and time delay the application of B+. I've even seen the Amperite flasher relays used, albeit not for soft starting - but for alarms.

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"Capacitor Cosmetologist since 1979"
USN Retired 1984-2006 (Avionics/Cal)


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 Post subject: Re: Surgisters?
PostPosted: Nov Fri 08, 2019 6:09 am 
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Joined: Nov Mon 02, 2009 7:01 am
Posts: 3869
Location: Lincoln City, OR 97367
Greetings to the Forum:

Most broadcast transmitters used a "step-start"..... but it was usually only a single step and employed large contactors. Delay was accomplished by everything from pneumatic dash pots to computer control, depending on the vintage.

The later computer logic could detect a failure of the step-start circuit and automatically shut the transmitter down. The earlier versions used smoke signals. :D

Regards,

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