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 Post subject: Re: Auxiliary cooling fans for automotive radiators
PostPosted: Sep Tue 28, 2021 12:04 am 
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oddly enough, coolant can pass through a radiator too fast to shed heat properly. We used fixed plates in place of the thermostat in race cars, usually 5/8 or 3/4 hole size. I am not saying that this is your problem. Usually a pusher fan (or sucker) is not needed unless the air conditioning condenser is needing more air. Look for engine problems, leaky head gaskets, dirty block, and so on.

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 Post subject: Re: Auxiliary cooling fans for automotive radiators
PostPosted: Sep Tue 28, 2021 12:46 am 
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kc5gym wrote:
We used fixed plates in place of the thermostat in race cars, usually 5/8 or 3/4 hole size.

This is an old school method for regulating and directing coolant flow inside a motor. That little Allis road grader I mentioned had a head gasket that was absolutely symmetrical front to back ... except ... that the coolant openings were smaller toward the front and larger toward the back, ensuring the the heat transfer through the block and head was uniform.


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 Post subject: Re: Auxiliary cooling fans for automotive radiators
PostPosted: Sep Tue 28, 2021 1:18 am 
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Location: far western end of Maryland...21561
Elect cooling fans that come on when the temp reaches some set high temp have been original equipment on vehicles for a long time -i wouldn't worry about the load on the elect system.

A somewhat humorous aside. A number of decades ago I was in Phoenix AZ. In AUGUST for work doing diagnostic stuff on cars. It required starting cars that had been sitting undriven for a number of days. The cars had an auxiliary elect fan that came on at a set high temp...maybe 200 deg. The fans came on as soon as we started the cars. Got hot under the hood in that AZ sun


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 Post subject: Re: Auxiliary cooling fans for automotive radiators
PostPosted: Sep Tue 28, 2021 6:48 pm 
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Unless you're trying to keep it 100% original there are new radiators made for a lot of vintage cars, they can even be had with electric fans installed.

New vehicles all use thin, light Aluminum radiators that look like they wouldn't cool a lawnmower, but they dissipate a lot more heat than the old copper and brass jobs.

https://speedcooling.com/product-category/radiators/


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 Post subject: Re: Auxiliary cooling fans for automotive radiators
PostPosted: Sep Tue 28, 2021 6:56 pm 
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I'm one that can't stand the appearance of these new aluminum radiators in vintage vehicles. If a replacement radiator was needed, I would not want to use anything that did not look exactly like the original one unless there was no other choice, in that case I would need to send it out to get it anodized or somehow otherwise made permanently black.

I'm not thrilled with adding on an electric fan that won't look authentic but at least that can be done in a reversible manner without modifying anything.

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 Post subject: Re: Auxiliary cooling fans for automotive radiators
PostPosted: Sep Tue 28, 2021 7:46 pm 
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Mr. Detrola wrote:
I'm one that can't stand the appearance of these new aluminum radiators in vintage vehicles. .


I can understand that, but did you check out the link I gave? They look pretty close to OEM, other than the shiny Aluminum, I see no reason they couldn't be painted black, they might even dissipate heat better, might void the warranty at worst.

I could live with non OEM better than a blown head gasket, unless it's a car you show.


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 Post subject: Re: Auxiliary cooling fans for automotive radiators
PostPosted: Sep Tue 28, 2021 8:19 pm 
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Yes, I did look at those. The ones I saw there do look a lot more like OEM designs than any of the other recent replacement offerings I've seen, but the bare aluminum look doesn't appeal to me. I wonder what the issue would be with painting them, since everyone is showing bare aluminum radiators for vintage vehicles now? In any event they don't list anything for any of the vehicles that I would be interested in improving the cooling on, but I'll keep that company in mind for others I may need in the future.

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 Post subject: Re: Auxiliary cooling fans for automotive radiators
PostPosted: Sep Tue 28, 2021 10:55 pm 
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I installed one of these on my 1967 Ford F-100 and mounted it right behind the radiator on a couple of metal brackets where the radiator bolts to the truck.

https://www.haydenauto.com/media/5477/e ... _final.pdf

The fan I have is the Rapid Cool 3710 16 inch fan.

I wired it directly to the battery through a relay to a toggle switch mounted under the dash.

It works great and I have no complaints and I didn't have to alter anything.

The truck originally came with an 240 inline six and when it crapped out I changed it out with a 289 V8 crate motor.

Never had an oem fan shroud and I didn't want to engineer (aka rig) one and the electric fan set up was a better way imo.

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 Post subject: Re: Auxiliary cooling fans for automotive radiators
PostPosted: Sep Wed 29, 2021 12:21 am 
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Location: Saskatoon
35Z5 wrote:
One other thought, how many blades does the fan have? If only 4/5, a seven may help.

Us horsepower guys don't like them, once swapped a seven blade on my '64 Galaxie 390. Acceleration felt like I'd yanked the 390 & installed a 352(yes I'd owned a '62 352 prior).

I seem to recall that back in the old days, in order to avoid the horsepower loss at high RPM there were aftermarket flex blade fans, where the blades would flatten out at high RPM and reduce drag. But at low RPM, unflattened, they would move a lot of air. Do they still make them?


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 Post subject: Re: Auxiliary cooling fans for automotive radiators
PostPosted: Sep Wed 29, 2021 2:00 am 
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BobWeaver wrote:
35Z5 wrote:
One other thought, how many blades does the fan have? If only 4/5, a seven may help.

Us horsepower guys don't like them, once swapped a seven blade on my '64 Galaxie 390. Acceleration felt like I'd yanked the 390 & installed a 352(yes I'd owned a '62 352 prior).

I seem to recall that back in the old days, in order to avoid the horsepower loss at high RPM there were aftermarket flex blade fans, where the blades would flatten out at high RPM and reduce drag. But at low RPM, unflattened, they would move a lot of air. Do they still make them?


Yep they still make them.

https://www.flex-a-lite.com/belt-driven-fans.html

https://www.summitracing.com/search/par ... mechanical

https://www.jegs.com/c/Fans_Mechanical- ... 5/10002/-1

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 Post subject: Re: Auxiliary cooling fans for automotive radiators
PostPosted: Sep Wed 29, 2021 2:24 am 
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Mr. Detrola wrote:
I have been looking around and see there is a wide variety of them available. What none of the sellers seems to have any information on, is just how much extra air flow do you need? Does anyone here have first hand experience on what works well?

Working on a number of various vintage vehicles that could use improved cooling, planning to leave the original fans in place on the engines, but add something on the grille side of the radiator to push more air through when driving slow like in parades, or idling on hot summer days.

I do not like the plastic mounts that pass through the fins in the vehicle radiator core and will instead install either a flat metal strip across in two places or a piece of angle stock just wide enough not to be flexible and not to block the radiator core more than necessary.

The common auxiliary fan sizes of 14" and 16" seem to come in ratings from 800 or so CFM up to 3000 CFM. Is there any reason to go with the biggest one? Or is that so much overkill that a smaller unit around 1000 CFM is adequate?


Get a thermostatically controlled fan? Largest if you are having problems. You can put the thermocoupler where needed.

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 Post subject: Re: Auxiliary cooling fans for automotive radiators
PostPosted: Sep Wed 29, 2021 4:20 am 
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One check I frequently use is with one of those infra red lazer pointing thermometers. You can check the core for blockage, it will show as a cool spot along a tube past the point of blockage. Test the inlet vs. outlet temperature of the coolant. Normal for a good radiator to drop about 40 degrees from inlet to outlet when the thermostat is open. You should feel a lot of heat being pulled from the radiator in the fan's slipstream.

I have a good friend with a WW2 jeep, always overheated if the temp was over 85*. The radiator was a couple year old copper/brass two row, modern core replacement with a fan shroud from a well known jeep parts vendor. I power flushed the radiator, replaced thermostats, moved the radiator closer to the fan, removed the thermostat, took it in to a local radiator shop and had it flow tested, which it passed, but it still overheated. I could spray the core with water, and the engine would instantly cool. I tested the inlet vs. outlet temp, only 10 degrees cooler, and I noticed that the fan really wasn't pulling the normal amount of heat out of the radiator once the t-stat opened. I took it to another radiator shop that does a lot of antique vehicles. The first thing the guy checked was the fins between the tubes, they were loose and were not conducting heat from the tubes. I had him make a new, tube and fin tractor type, core like the jeep originally came with. Now the radiator will drop 40*F+, and the jeep won't get above t-stat opening even when it's 100.


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 Post subject: Re: Auxiliary cooling fans for automotive radiators
PostPosted: Sep Wed 29, 2021 5:02 pm 
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BobWeaver wrote:
35Z5 wrote:
One other thought, how many blades does the fan have? If only 4/5, a seven may help.

Us horsepower guys don't like them, once swapped a seven blade on my '64 Galaxie 390. Acceleration felt like I'd yanked the 390 & installed a 352(yes I'd owned a '62 352 prior).

I seem to recall that back in the old days, in order to avoid the horsepower loss at high RPM there were aftermarket flex blade fans, where the blades would flatten out at high RPM and reduce drag. But at low RPM, unflattened, they would move a lot of air. Do they still make them?

These days the orig flex fans are a disaster waiting to happen, generally far beyond their design life. Numerous stores of blades braking, poking through hoods, even heard of one death.

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 Post subject: Re: Auxiliary cooling fans for automotive radiators
PostPosted: Sep Wed 29, 2021 5:43 pm 
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I would never use a flex fan under any circumstances. One of my neighbors nearly got killed when the fan on his car decided to come apart while he was working under the hood. This was back around 1980. He was very lucky that someone saw what happened since his driveway is very short, and gave immediate first aid while waiting for the ambulance. After that, I told everyone I knew to remove those flex fans from their vehicles and install something safer.

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 Post subject: Re: Auxiliary cooling fans for automotive radiators
PostPosted: Sep Wed 29, 2021 6:23 pm 
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I had the same problem on my 1955 Mercury. Does just fine when moving but as soon as it idles for long periods the temps creep up. All I did was I bought the largest electric fan that would fit my radiator. Its a plastic fan with plastic mounts that go through the radiator. The fan sits on top of rubber mounts to avoid damaging the radiator fins. I installed a small toggle switch under the dash. Its been there now for 15 years. Its rather straightforward. If I am in stop and go traffic or idling on a hot day for long period I flip the switch and it almost immediately cools it down. Simple. Cheap. Effective.


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 Post subject: Re: Auxiliary cooling fans for automotive radiators
PostPosted: Sep Wed 29, 2021 7:02 pm 
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Unless you need the stock fan for appearance reasons, why not ditch it, go with proper electric radiator fans and gain a few HP from the engine not needing to drive a fan.


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 Post subject: Re: Auxiliary cooling fans for automotive radiators
PostPosted: Sep Wed 29, 2021 7:16 pm 
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Something that also really helped my car was that I sent the original radiator to a local shop that rebuilds them. He took the top and bottom tanks off and replaced the core which had been 2 rows with a 3 row, high efficiency core. That helps slow the coolant down a bit as it goes through the radiator. I like brass radiators as they work well with the older iron block engines and don't react with other metals. That was done 15 years ago and the inside of the radiator still looks pretty new


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 Post subject: Re: Auxiliary cooling fans for automotive radiators
PostPosted: Sep Wed 29, 2021 7:20 pm 
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Tube Radio wrote:
Unless you need the stock fan for appearance reasons, why not ditch it, go with proper electric radiator fans and gain a few HP from the engine not needing to drive a fan.

Electric fans that are capable of total cooling(usually 4000 CFM range) generally draw 30A-40A. Many are two speed, spinning curved, eight blade fans. Nowadays blower heater/AC fans can easily suck 20A. In 50s & early '60 generators were usually 30 amps and even alternators of era were rarely higher than 55A(my '69 Fairlanes are 42 amp, one has a 428 & dual belts driving it). There's a good reason modern vehicles usually have at least a 100 amp alt & most are more like 125-140. Police vehicles generally have alt in range of 175-200A.

That said, I'd think a supplementary 1000-1500 CFM pusher fan would probably be OK. Thing with pushers is they are not as efficient as pullers, but in conjunction with stock fan, usually work well.

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 Post subject: Re: Auxiliary cooling fans for automotive radiators
PostPosted: Sep Wed 29, 2021 9:45 pm 
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35Z5 wrote:
These days the orig flex fans are a disaster waiting to happen, generally far beyond their design life. Numerous stores of blades braking, poking through hoods, even heard of one death.
Kinda what I suspected. At that time, the hotrod magazines raved about how great they were. I figured that if they were so good, they would have been standard equipment on new cars.


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 Post subject: Re: Auxiliary cooling fans for automotive radiators
PostPosted: Sep Wed 29, 2021 10:13 pm 
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Ford used some metal fan blades that were flexible and would straighten out a higher rpm's

DM


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