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 Post subject: Roundabouts - Bah, Humbug
PostPosted: May Fri 20, 2022 11:05 pm 
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Joined: Aug Mon 17, 2009 4:11 pm
Posts: 4067
Location: DFW Texas
About 10 years ago it seemed to be the rage to put roundabouts everywhere near here. There are 10 with-in a 2 mile radius of my house. And they are building a new one almost at the end of my block.
I agree that in some places they work very well. But, in some places they are really very bad. There are 6 serving the service road on 287 after it splits off I-35 going north out of Fort Worth. I have sat for over 5 minutes waiting for a break or someone with a kind heart to let me enter the roundabout. There are so many cars exiting 287 at certain times of the day that they just continually clog it and NO ONE cares how long you've been waiting to enter. Okay, I hate the darn things. So I go the long way around to miss them.
I just found, online, the preliminary project plans to modify all 6 of the roundabouts on 287 that I am complaining about. The modification will delete them and add proper red light controls at all the intersections. YEA! Too bad it'll take 5-10 years to get it done if we're lucky.

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 Post subject: Re: Roundabouts - Bah, Humbug
PostPosted: May Fri 20, 2022 11:43 pm 
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Location: Carmel, Indiana
Well then, it's probibly a good thing you don't live here in Carmel, Indiana. We have about 140+ roundabouts and, for the most part, I've gotten used to them.

https://www.wthr.com/article/news/local ... 093da28c20

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 Post subject: Re: Roundabouts - Bah, Humbug
PostPosted: May Fri 20, 2022 11:59 pm 
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Location: Oak Creek, WI USA 53154
Yeah, one of the few things that tends to go wrong with roundabouts is when there is an endless flow of traffic entering from the left preventing other traffic from entering. It's not ideal to have to use stoplights to control traffic that's trying to enter a roundabout but if it has to be done then it has to be done.


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 Post subject: Re: Roundabouts - Bah, Humbug
PostPosted: May Sat 21, 2022 2:39 am 
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Location: Clearwater, KS 67026
I've seen a couple of roundabouts that weren't made big enough to handle a tractor/trailer combo. It was almost fun watching the driver trying to navigate it without running over curbs and signs. This was in an area where such vehicles not only were allowed but were necessary. I've also seen car drivers who couldn't grasp the concept and barreled through willy-nilly. Probably the same clueless folks who don't know how to turn into the correct lane.


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 Post subject: Re: Roundabouts - Bah, Humbug
PostPosted: May Sat 21, 2022 2:57 am 
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Location: Mission Viejo, southern California
I have rarely seen one which improved traffic flow, and many which worsened it.

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Last edited by FStephenMasek on May Sat 21, 2022 3:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Roundabouts - Bah, Humbug
PostPosted: May Sat 21, 2022 3:04 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 1554
Location: Detroit, Michigan
I first encountered roundabouts, or traffic circles, in the mid 70's in rural Massachusetts, where I lived for three years, about 30 miles West of Boston. They have now appeared in various places around here in the Detroit area. They were of easily enough negotiated utility under sparse traffic rural conditions, but become a bit hairy when traffic is crowded as in urban areas. Though I have long experience at these, I still feel a very slight twinge on the nerves every time I have to go into one. It seems to me it's a matter of who ever has the most guts wins. I try to avoid them.

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 Post subject: Re: Roundabouts - Bah, Humbug
PostPosted: May Sat 21, 2022 5:35 am 
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Location: Baltimore, MD
FStephenMasek wrote:
I have rarely seen one which improved traffic flow, and many which worsened it.


Add to that the way a lot of clowns in Maryland and DC drive, they are recipes for disaster.

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 Post subject: Re: Roundabouts - Bah, Humbug
PostPosted: May Sat 21, 2022 6:31 am 
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Joined: Jun Sat 09, 2007 8:14 am
Posts: 5616
Location: Melbourne, Florida
There's one around here that's refereed to by a local radio guy as ''The Circle of Death". It has two lanes and is much too small for the number of exits and general layout. At about twice the diameter it would be OK. There have been lots of wrecks.

They love them in Europe and the UK. I saw one in England that had been made by simply painting a huge white dot in the center of an ordinary intersection.

In Germany I met a very surprised looking driver (likely from the UK) who was going the wrong way around.

The craziest ones I've seen were in Italy, where traffic entering the circle had right of way. That was years ago and I think it might have been changed.

RRM


Last edited by Retired Radio Man on May Sat 21, 2022 6:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Roundabouts - Bah, Humbug
PostPosted: May Sat 21, 2022 6:50 am 
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Joined: Apr Sun 08, 2007 6:47 am
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Location: British Columbia
Traffic circles used to be all the rage in Edmonton, Alberta back in the 1950s and 60s, but they were so hated by drivers that the city ripped out half of them back in the early 90s. They still have some, but they are regulated by traffic lights.
Where I am now they used one to solve a problem where there was trafic coming from five different directions, and it worked well, so they decided to build more of them, including on residential streets. These were streets that really had no traffic, or accident problems to start with, and their idea was to stick a 3'' wide piece of concrete pipe on end in the middle of conventional four way intersections, that did not work at all if a larger vehicle had to get through. It was really just a flavor of the decade thing, sort of like putting one way streets everywhere, creating snarls of traffic, and making contractors money for nothing of value.
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 Post subject: Re: Roundabouts - Bah, Humbug
PostPosted: May Sat 21, 2022 6:58 am 
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Joined: Jun Thu 10, 2021 8:21 pm
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Location: DFW area
Dennis: I pretty much despise them too. The pair at Harmon and 287 is a total disaster. I've had to go thru that one with my gooseneck trailer and nearly can't get around it. No clue how they thought trucks with 53' trailers would be able to do so. Hope that Bonds Ranch and 287 is on the list for going back to traffic lights too.


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 Post subject: Re: Roundabouts - Bah, Humbug
PostPosted: May Sat 21, 2022 10:36 am 
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Location: Fernandina Beach, FL
I am in Australia right now. Needless to say, we go clockwise. Better be careful here.

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 Post subject: Re: Roundabouts - Bah, Humbug
PostPosted: May Sat 21, 2022 10:55 am 
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Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
This is the biggest roundabout that I know of. It is easy to negotiate.
Attachment:
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Attachment:
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traffic_circle_1941.jpg [ 199.36 KiB | Viewed 754 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Roundabouts - Bah, Humbug
PostPosted: May Sat 21, 2022 12:36 pm 
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Location: Virginia Beach Va
Anyone else have 4 way stop sign intersections?
It’s great as long as everyone understands the rules and is paying attention who is next.
Unfortunately not everyone gets it and those who are impatient.
I don’t understand it myself totally. Like whose fault is ia crash when there is no camera. He said, she said?


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 Post subject: Re: Roundabouts - Bah, Humbug
PostPosted: May Sat 21, 2022 1:01 pm 
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Location: Fernandina Beach, FL
davep wrote:
Anyone else have 4 way stop sign intersections?
It’s great as long as everyone understands the rules and is paying attention who is next.
Unfortunately not everyone gets it and those who are impatient.
I don’t understand it myself totally. Like whose fault is ia crash when there is no camera. He said, she said?

There are four-way stops in Florida as well as all-way stops. “The person on the right” has the right of way when two stop at the same time. Most people, even idiots seem to understand and comply. I like the roundabout as well as the four-way stop.

One thing that makes it easier for me when visiting Australia is that they do not turn on a red signal after stop. Less decision to make in the unfamiliar driving.

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 Post subject: Re: Roundabouts - Bah, Humbug
PostPosted: May Sat 21, 2022 4:41 pm 
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Joined: Jun Sat 09, 2007 8:14 am
Posts: 5616
Location: Melbourne, Florida
davep wrote:
Anyone else have 4 way stop sign intersections?
It’s great as long as everyone understands the rules and is paying attention who is next.
Unfortunately not everyone gets it and those who are impatient.
I don’t understand it myself totally. Like whose fault is ia crash when there is no camera. He said, she said?


Yes, and while most seem to know the rules, what usually happens is cars inch ahead until one decides to go.

RRM


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 Post subject: Re: Roundabouts - Bah, Humbug
PostPosted: May Sat 21, 2022 5:07 pm 
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Location: Oak Creek, WI USA 53154
The trouble with 4-way stops is when there are multiple lanes on the streets and cars keep arriving at different times. It's extra work to track who arrived when.


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 Post subject: Re: Roundabouts - Bah, Humbug
PostPosted: May Sat 21, 2022 6:00 pm 
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Location: Austin, TX
The problem with 4 way stop signs is that the first car tends to sit and wait at the stop sign until the next car arrives and stops. The first car could have easily gone through the intersection before the next car even got to the stop sign. It's also annoying to have to stop when there's not another car in sight. A 4 way yield might work better, but I guess that's basically a roundabout...


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 Post subject: Re: Roundabouts - Bah, Humbug
PostPosted: May Sat 21, 2022 6:03 pm 
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Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Paul Dietenberger wrote:
The trouble with 4-way stops is when there are multiple lanes on the streets and cars keep arriving at different times. It's extra work to track who arrived when.

More often than not, traffic still moves faster in this situation than if a signal were installed.
Power outages usually cause an increase in traffic flow around this neck of the woods, drivers not understanding/obeying the common courtesy rules not withstanding.

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 Post subject: Re: Roundabouts - Bah, Humbug
PostPosted: May Sat 21, 2022 6:38 pm 
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Location: DFW Texas
cvairwerks wrote:
Dennis: I pretty much despise them too. The pair at Harmon and 287 is a total disaster. I've had to go thru that one with my gooseneck trailer and nearly can't get around it. No clue how they thought trucks with 53' trailers would be able to do so. Hope that Bonds Ranch and 287 is on the list for going back to traffic lights too.


You know exactly what I’m talking about. I’ll pm you the link to the prel. Plans later when I am on a real computer.

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 Post subject: Re: Roundabouts - Bah, Humbug
PostPosted: May Sat 21, 2022 7:36 pm 
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Joined: Aug Wed 24, 2011 4:35 am
Posts: 6008
Location: Sunnyvale CA
ac wrote:
The problem with 4 way stop signs is that the first car tends to sit and wait at the stop sign until the next car arrives and stops. .


Yes, because you want to make sure they actually stop.

Traffic circles ("roundabouts") are a function of Europhilia, where, somehow, people think that European ideas are somehow superior to us dumb ole yokels, when in fact all they are is another obsolete idea.

Brett


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