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 Post subject: Are there any gas oven experts in the house? FIXED!
PostPosted: Dec Wed 13, 2017 6:13 am 
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Or maybe not even an expert, but someone who knows more than me (a very low bar to top).

I have a 1991 Modern Maid double gas wall oven, wherein the upper oven punked out some time ago. The bottom works, but my old back has been complaining about the bending over.

When I rotate the top's temperature knob, the red indicator light does not illuminate, nor does any heat develop. The bottom heats as normal, and it's indicator lights when it's knob is turned.

Can you look at the print and advise? I tried replacing the igniter, although now I'm not sure if it was for the bake or broil unit. It is located on the upper wall. That did not fix it. I'm also curious as to why the indicator light doesn't come on (not the oven lamp; it and the rotisserie motor both work). Could it be the thermostat?


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MM gas wall oven print.jpg
MM gas wall oven print.jpg [ 206.4 KiB | Viewed 1842 times ]

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Last edited by fifties on Jan Fri 05, 2018 4:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Are there any gas oven experts in the house?
PostPosted: Dec Wed 13, 2017 9:53 am 
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Greetings to Fifties and the Forum:

Based on the print, it looks as though it could be either the upper oven thermostat or the timer/clock assembly. I'd look at the timer/clock first.... if it's solid state, it could be suffering from the bad caps syndrome or something else; if it's mechanical, it could have a gummed up mechanism or a switch failure.

I don't know how your oven is protected from loss of gas pressure; perhaps there is a thermocouple on the burners since no protection seems to be present in the drawing. For my wife's double oven range, there is a monster solenoid valve in the main gas line that is held open by a voltage supplied from the control unit (which gets its power from the AC line). When there is an interruption in the Edison service, the solenoid valve closes and shuts off all gas to prevent problems associated with gas leaking into the house. When this happens, there is a message scrolling across the display and you have to command a reset before you can use the range. Commanding the reset results in a loud clank from the solenoid valve as it re-opens.

Based on the pictorial, your clock looks mechanical. You could try swapping the the power lead for the upper oven thermostat with the lower oven thermostat and see if the problem moves to the lower oven. If the problem moves, the timer/clock is at fault. If not, then the thermostat is the most likely culprit.

BTW, this assumes that the indicator lamp for the upper oven is good.

Regards,

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 Post subject: Re: Are there any gas oven experts in the house?
PostPosted: Dec Wed 13, 2017 10:21 am 
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Thanks for your input, Jim.

Actually the damn clock never did work correctly, and while the unit was under warranty I had it fixed once and then replaced, but even the replacement failed. Both ovens did however work for over 20 years until the upper one died a few years back.

In looking at the print after I posted, I realized that most likely the thermostat was the culprit, but alas, Sears Parts Direct posted that the part was no longer made, and there are no substitutes.

So let me revise my request; if anyone knows of an appliance parts dealer who can get unobtainium parts, please post.

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 Post subject: Re: Are there any gas oven experts in the house?
PostPosted: Dec Wed 13, 2017 2:31 pm 
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What you have to do is to remove both the clock and thermostat and bring them down to an appliance parts store. Somebody made this for Sears with common controls for non-Sears units.
Maybe it is even a Robertshaw thermostat
Even search on Ebay, one you have the part in hand


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 Post subject: Re: Are there any gas oven experts in the house?
PostPosted: Dec Wed 13, 2017 2:33 pm 
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If you Google the part number I bet you'll get plenty of hits.
Be careful with the price. The $29 thermostat on one website is probably the same part as the $200 thermostat on another website.


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 Post subject: Re: Are there any gas oven experts in the house?
PostPosted: Dec Wed 13, 2017 4:05 pm 
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check that your igniter is glowing. If not replace it. if it is but it is not the color of a candle flame it may not be getting hot enough to open the gas valve replace it. If it is bright yellow and still not working, your gas valve may be faulty. ebay usually has very good prices on oven parts. WAY less expensive than sears parts website.

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 Post subject: Re: Are there any gas oven experts in the house?
PostPosted: Dec Wed 13, 2017 7:29 pm 
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Thx for the information, guys.

Even after I replaced one igniter, however, there was no glow. I also did search the net last night for the particular part number, including The Bay, and no joy. Apparently this thing wants to make itself a real challenge.

Good idea to remove, or at least take a pic of the thermostat, and see if it can be matched up. I think there are one or two appliance part shops locally, and/or I can see what might match on the net.

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 Post subject: Re: Are there any gas oven experts in the house?
PostPosted: Dec Wed 13, 2017 10:35 pm 
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fifties, you remind me of a good friend. He had a stove that quit, it was the gas valve and coil that failed. So he ordered a new one based on the online info. It comes, he pulls the stove out of the wall... and it is a different part. He returns it and the stove is to be replaced as he cannot find the part his stove uses. He has given up after well over a year of searching, of sending pictures to the nation-wide chain store parts group as well as the real manufacturer who at first stated that the stove NEVER used that part until they saw the pictures of it installed with the wiring harness... After that, he stopped getting any replies. The manuals all have several different parts none of which is the one he needs, and no one behind the counters in any of the local parts suppliers recognizes it at all.

Every one now states it is an obsolete model, "Too bad, So sad. Good luck with that". I hope he doesn't have to resize the cabinets in order to get a newer one to fit.

John S.


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 Post subject: Re: Are there any gas oven experts in the house?
PostPosted: Dec Thu 14, 2017 1:51 am 
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Hey John, I actually did first look into getting a replacement double wall oven, rather than seeing about repairing this one. I learned that apparently over the last two decades, electric wall ovens have become about 95% of the market, and can supposedly run circles around the gas units in performance.

A new double electric would run around $1400 (plus about another 9% sales tax). I would have to pay an electrician to run 240VAC to it, as the current gas unit only requires 110. Then there's the matter of having a finish carpenter cut the opening somewhat larger than now exists, to accommodate it. I thought about doing the replacement first because of the upper oven failure, and also that the electric has a digital readout, which of course is easier for my old eyes to see, rather than having to put on my specs to read the printed temps on the circular knob of the gas unit.

As you can see, we're talking some coin here in the unit and labor. probably around $2500.

So anyway I disassembled the upper face plate to get a look at the inside, where the guts are. OF COURSE the thermostat for the upper oven is located at the very back, about two feet in, and my selective comprehension failed to recognize that there are gas lines connected to it. Most likely the entire unit will have to be pulled out from the cabinet, in order to replace it.

I know my limitations; I'm gonna contact the appliance repairman whose done work for me on my rentals, tell him the model number of the oven, and the apparent part number of the thermostat (after asking him if he thinks that particular part could be the problem), and ask him to see if he can locate one.

Here's a scan of the insides. The thermostat is at the back.


Attachments:
top of MM oven 1.jpg
top of MM oven 1.jpg [ 205.38 KiB | Viewed 1660 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Are there any gas oven experts in the house?
PostPosted: Dec Thu 14, 2017 2:50 am 
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Reminds me of the joke about the fellow who jumped out an airplane with a parachute but was having trouble deploying it. As he fell towards earth he spied another fellow rising rapidly towards him!

As the two men passed in the sky, the descending skydiver shouted, "Do you know anything about parachutes?"

The ascending fellow shouted back, "No, do you know anything about gas stoves?"


Yeah, I know...:roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Are there any gas oven experts in the house?
PostPosted: Dec Thu 14, 2017 2:57 am 
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No that was good; gave me a belly laugh!

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 Post subject: Re: Are there any gas oven experts in the house?
PostPosted: Dec Fri 15, 2017 3:59 am 
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You could pull the wires off of the clock and connect them together. Then see if the oven works.

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 Post subject: Re: Are there any gas oven experts in the house?1
PostPosted: Dec Fri 15, 2017 4:29 am 
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Location: Mid Michigan
If you have a good local appliance repairman, he may be able to look at the part and identify the manufacturer. Last summer, the fan motor quit in my 15 year old Kenmore dehumidifier and it turned out to be unobtanium on all the internet parts sites. I took the part to to the local appliance guy and he identified the maker. I did a google search
Which turned up an ebay listing for my motor. Saved over $200 vs the cost of a new dehunmidifier. Also, all Sears model numbers are written in the format of 111.1111. The digits to the left of the decimal point identify the manufacturer. At one time there were listings of the codes, but I don't know where you might be able to get that info now.


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 Post subject: Re: Are there any gas oven experts in the house?
PostPosted: Dec Fri 15, 2017 4:58 am 
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Thx, and I do have a pretty good repair guy -this should really test that- to go to.

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 Post subject: Re: Are there any gas oven experts in the house? FIXED!
PostPosted: Jan Fri 05, 2018 4:59 am 
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Had the appliance repair guy over this afternoon.

He re-wired the clock timer and got the upper oven working again. So, no parts were needed, just a labor charge.

I asked him, if we weren't using the timer, how could it have caused the oven to stop working? He said that the timer has points in it that have to make contact whenever the upper oven is turned on, and they can fail over the years.

So you guys that mentioned the timer were absolutely correct!

Of course knowing how to wire it to bypass the timer is something else again. Anyways, I can give my aging back a break now, whenever I want to bake something.

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 Post subject: Re: Are there any gas oven experts in the house? FIXED!
PostPosted: Jan Fri 05, 2018 2:13 pm 
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Unrelated to this problem, but to just throw it out there, my Viking oven igniter will glow and look normal but will fail to ignite the gas. This has happened several times in the last 14 years. Apparently this is a common problem with some igniters- the surface temperature doesn't get high enough even though it is glowing orange. So even when all looks well replacing the igniter solved the problem on some ovens.


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 Post subject: Re: Are there any gas oven experts in the house? FIXED!
PostPosted: Jan Fri 05, 2018 3:01 pm 
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Scott wrote:
Unrelated to this problem, but to just throw it out there, my Viking oven igniter will glow and look normal but will fail to ignite the gas. This has happened several times in the last 14 years. Apparently this is a common problem with some igniters- the surface temperature doesn't get high enough even though it is glowing orange. So even when all looks well replacing the igniter solved the problem on some ovens.


correct though it is a little more complicated than that. The valve that is opened when the ignitor heats up is dependent on the voltage drop across the ignitor coil. It has been a while since my brothers oven had this problem, when I researched it. basically the resistance of the coil has changed and the voltage going to the valve is wrong and it won't open up. I forgot the details of it, I found it on some appliance repair forum.

basically if your ignitor is not glowing as bright as a candle flame and your oven won't ignite replace the igniter.

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Last edited by Flinx on Jan Fri 05, 2018 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Are there any gas oven experts in the house? FIXED!
PostPosted: Jan Fri 05, 2018 3:05 pm 
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http://www.appliance411.com/faq/gas_ran ... shtml#glow

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 Post subject: Re: Are there any gas oven experts in the house? FIXED!
PostPosted: Jan Fri 05, 2018 3:08 pm 
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duplicate

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