Forums :: Resources :: Features :: Photo Gallery :: Vintage Radio Shows :: Archives
Support This Site: Contributors :: Advertise


It is currently Nov Tue 19, 2019 9:00 pm


All times are UTC [ DST ]





Post New Topic Post Reply  [ 197 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Public obsession with replacing capacitors
PostPosted: Feb Sat 10, 2018 5:34 am 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 34393
Location: Maryland 20709, USA
SmoothOscillator wrote:
finally his PS problem is "permanent."
His problem was permanent the day he was born.

Stupidity is often (but not always) hereditary.

- Leigh

_________________
73 de W3NLB
http://www.AtwaterKent.info
Click "Grebe Stuff" for Synchrophase info


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Public obsession with replacing capacitors
PostPosted: Feb Sat 10, 2018 3:09 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Fri 06, 2012 8:47 pm
Posts: 6488
SmoothOscillator wrote:
There's a guy posting on QRZ about using his collins 32v transmitter, and after each post, it gets worse and worse...finally his PS problem is "permanent." D'oh!
I think you are talking about the guy who has had his 32V2 giving him all kinds of warning signs for days while he continued to operate it. Then come to find out that, "There's a line of a dozen molded .01 paper capacitors along the bottom of the RF section," with at least one now completely short circuiting his power supply.

It's kind of sad that he didn't replace them. Now he will be dealing with the possibility of a damaged power transformer rather than just $5 worth of capacitors.

Curtis Eickerman

_________________
http://curtiseickerman.weebly.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Public obsession with replacing capacitors
PostPosted: Feb Sat 10, 2018 3:29 pm 
Member

Joined: Nov Wed 30, 2016 7:35 pm
Posts: 5251
Location: Sunbury, Ohio 43074
Quote:
There's a guy posting on QRZ about using his collins 32v transmitter, and after each post, it gets worse and worse...finally his PS problem is "permanent." D'oh!

Patient: "Doctor, it hurts when I do this"

Doctor: "Stop doing it, then" :shock:

_________________
Preserving the hist. of electronics, one boat anchor at a time! :)
https://www.bbtvtestequipment.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Public obsession with replacing capacitors
PostPosted: Feb Sat 10, 2018 8:45 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: May Sun 13, 2012 8:12 pm
Posts: 12640
Location: Central PA 16801
[quote="Leigh
Stupidity is often (but not always) hereditary.

- Leigh[/quote]

very true

steve

_________________
You have enemies ? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Public obsession with replacing capacitors
PostPosted: Feb Mon 12, 2018 4:13 am 
Member

Joined: Nov Mon 12, 2012 8:56 am
Posts: 53
Location: Mississauga, ON
It seems that this is a far more controversial and divisive topic than I anticipated. What I was talking about are people on YouTube who seem to get off at venting their frustration and outright anger over the common lack of shotgun recapping of electronics under repair in videos. I have known for quite some time that there is no single answer as to whether or not OEM caps in recent production (circa 80s and 90s) electronics are good in the longevity department. A TV from the 1980s or 1990s can have no capacitors that check bad or questionable on any testers or meters while many computers from the 2000s and 2010s have needed to have their power supplies and even motherboards fully recapped if they weren't just EOL'd then and there. However, a big part of the problem with capacitors in modern electronics is that they are often minimum spec and sometimes even under rated for their application in electrical circuits, while others are simply cheaply made.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Public obsession with replacing capacitors
PostPosted: Feb Mon 12, 2018 4:32 am 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep Thu 14, 2006 3:27 pm
Posts: 12419
Location: Carmel, Indiana
Mikon8er wrote:
What I'm really talking about is relatively new (1970s and newer) electronics with electrolytic capacitors that are not "worn" enough to justify replacement...


Such newer capacitors are being replaced all of the time on vintage Stereo equipment and when stated as such on an Ebay auction, that piece of stereo equipment will usually sell for considerably more money that if it were kept all original. I see this all of the time with vintage Marantz receivers that are sold on Ebay. It's up to the restorer to anticipate which caps should be replace (preventive maintenance) based on his knowledge and/or experience. Even if certain caps haven't failed yet, they may have become so leaky or their specs have changed so much, over the years, that they need to be replaced anyway in order to maintain the item to factory spec. Most of those people who bitch and whine about replacing capacitors are just showing off their ignorance in their own special little way. Ignore them. If you feel that certain capacitors need to be replaced then you just go right ahead and replace them regardless of what anybody else says.

_________________
Michael Feldt
www.indianaradios.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Public obsession with replacing capacitors
PostPosted: Feb Mon 12, 2018 12:46 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct Sun 15, 2006 12:57 pm
Posts: 6706
Location: Liberty, Missouri
Quote:
... However, a big part of the problem with capacitors in modern electronics is that they are often minimum spec and sometimes even under rated for their application in electrical circuits, while others are simply cheaply made....
Don't for a second think that is a modern problem. That problem has been around since the advent of "Consumer Electronics".

_________________
Pics, Bold & underlined text, are usually links.

https://mikeharrison.smugmug.com/

Mike


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Public obsession with replacing capacitors
PostPosted: Feb Mon 12, 2018 1:10 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jul Mon 26, 2010 8:30 pm
Posts: 26814
Location: Annapolis, MD
We're in a bit of a wheel spin here.....it seems that the core question is how to know exactly when to replace parts that have known limitations. The example du jour is electrolytics, but there are others...eg carbon comp resistors. I recently gave up any attempt at using my inventory of these....and all replacements are now metal oxide or carbon film.
BUT....I just finished a Fisher 400 with a bazillion carbon comps that appeared to be all good.

For me, knowing when to replace electrolytics is an inexact science. I reported on my Tek scope from the 70s with the original filter caps----and on the three Pioneers from the same era in which all electrolytics got replaced. How did I make that decision? A little bit of reading, plus personal experience with other apparati that was designed and marketed in an environment of cost competition.

I would never be able to earn a living fixing things....I always did my own repairs to save money. Sometimes, I was too thorough for the situation, and in other situations, I applied only the minimum amount of WD40 and duct tape to get back on the air.
Now that I sometimes get paid for fixing radios, I'm mostly concerned that it STAY working....and that I learn something in the process. If I have reason to believe that something has a few bad electrolytics, I don't waste a lot of time on theory or testing---I just fire up the soldering iron.

_________________
-Mark
"Measure voltage, but THINK current." --anon.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Public obsession with replacing capacitors
PostPosted: Feb Mon 12, 2018 7:35 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 33159
Location: SoCal, 91387
pixellany wrote:
We're in a bit of a wheel spin here.....it seems that the core question is how to know exactly when to replace parts that have known limitations. For me, knowing when to replace electrolytics is an inexact science.

Oh I think that in general it's an inexact science to begin with, AFA being item specific. And really, so it tests good now, but it's 30 years old; are you gonna leave it in?

pixellany wrote:
apparati that was designed and marketed in an environment of cost competition.

Haha, tell when there was ever an environment where there wasn't cost competition?

pixellany wrote:
If I have reason to believe that something has a few bad electrolytics, I don't waste a lot of time on theory or testing---I just fire up the soldering iron.

Exactly. With Electrolytic's over perhaps 25 years, and any wax/paper/plastic encased caps, it's a no-brainer.

Now with resistors, that's another ball game entirely. I've come across a few sets that needed damn near every carbon comp unit replaced, as they all read at 125% above their banded values. OTOH, When I restored grampaw's 1928 TRF console that was left to me, I think I only had to replace one Dogbone (and two RF coils). Those are extreme examples, however. Usually with toob sets, I've found that maybe one or two resistors at most have to be swapped out.

_________________
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\He Who Dies With The Most Radios Wins//////////////////


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Public obsession with replacing capacitors
PostPosted: Feb Mon 12, 2018 8:36 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 34393
Location: Maryland 20709, USA
pixellany wrote:
Now that I sometimes get paid for fixing radios, I'm mostly concerned that it STAY working....

That's the point too many people miss.

Yes, you can find an occasional electrolytic in consumer gear that still works OK.
But will it continue to do so for the next 10 or 20 years?

When I repair a set, I expect it to still work when I'm no longer able to support the warranty.

- Leigh

_________________
73 de W3NLB
http://www.AtwaterKent.info
Click "Grebe Stuff" for Synchrophase info


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Public obsession with replacing capacitors
PostPosted: Feb Mon 12, 2018 8:46 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 34393
Location: Maryland 20709, USA
fifties wrote:
Now with resistors, that's another ball game entirely.
The one exception I've encountered is resistors made by Allen-Bradley.
Every one is dead on value, regardless of age.

Back when I was with the gov, our lab used ONLY A-B resistors.
Of course, we had no "lowest bidder" requirement. We were trying to do real stuff.

- Leigh

_________________
73 de W3NLB
http://www.AtwaterKent.info
Click "Grebe Stuff" for Synchrophase info


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Public obsession with replacing capacitors
PostPosted: Feb Mon 12, 2018 11:54 pm 
Member

Joined: Mar Wed 16, 2011 4:17 pm
Posts: 236
Location: New York City, New York
Fisher was using very few carbon comps by the early 1960's. The majority of the resistors in the 1961 and up stuff were carbon films made in Germany by Beyschlag. Most (but not all) of the carbon comps in this era appear to be AB with exceptions.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Public obsession with replacing capacitors
PostPosted: Feb Tue 13, 2018 12:40 am 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 33159
Location: SoCal, 91387
Leigh wrote:
fifties wrote:
Now with resistors, that's another ball game entirely.
The one exception I've encountered is resistors made by Allen-Bradley.
Every one is dead on value, regardless of age.

When you say "dead", do you mean that their resistance was beyond banded (or un-banded 20%) value?

_________________
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\He Who Dies With The Most Radios Wins//////////////////


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Public obsession with replacing capacitors
PostPosted: Feb Tue 13, 2018 12:43 am 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 34393
Location: Maryland 20709, USA
fifties wrote:
Leigh wrote:
fifties wrote:
Now with resistors, that's another ball game entirely.
The one exception I've encountered is resistors made by Allen-Bradley.
Every one is dead on value, regardless of age.
When you say "dead", do you mean that their resistance was beyond banded (or un-banded 20%) value?

I did not say "dead".

I said "dead on value", meaning zero error.

- Leigh

_________________
73 de W3NLB
http://www.AtwaterKent.info
Click "Grebe Stuff" for Synchrophase info


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Public obsession with replacing capacitors
PostPosted: Feb Tue 13, 2018 10:38 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 1404
This thread is still going? Wow! :shock:

Well then, I must add to it! :D

I think a lot of the controversy has to do with what a particular person wants to do with old radios (or other electronic gear). Is he an untechnical collector who only values them for their historical/monetary value? Does he appreciate the operation of them? Is it just a stunt to make something work with least effort/cost? Etc..

For me, I do appreciate their history, their operation, and their coolness. For me, it's a question of reliability. How confident am I that if I use this thing every day it won't wind up a flaming beacon of betrayed expectations? It's like when I ship something - when I am confident that I could package it and throw it down the stairs without damage, then I am satisfied.

Because of the way I look at and use antique electronics, and my expectations from them, I am a full recapper (paper and electrolytics).

Several people have mentioned modern media as well, including YouTube. I've had numerous people cite things on YouTube as if it is some kind of proof, and my answer is always the same. You do realize you can find somebody on YouTube to say ANYTHING, right? Literally, EVERY position on everything is presented with complete conviction. It's really pretty humorous.

_________________
I don't believe in experts. That's why I take my car to a plumber and my taxes to a chef.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Public obsession with replacing capacitors
PostPosted: Feb Tue 13, 2018 10:46 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Fri 06, 2012 8:47 pm
Posts: 6488
Sol wrote:
You do realize you can find somebody on YouTube to say ANYTHING, right? Literally, EVERY position on everything is presented with complete conviction. It's really pretty humorous.
Yep. The world is flat, you know. I saw it on Youtube. :wink:

Curtis Eickerman

_________________
http://curtiseickerman.weebly.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Public obsession with replacing capacitors
PostPosted: Feb Tue 13, 2018 11:36 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 20343
Location: Warner Robins, GA
Leigh wrote:
fifties wrote:
Now with resistors, that's another ball game entirely.
The one exception I've encountered is resistors made by Allen-Bradley.
Every one is dead on value, regardless of age.

Back when I was with the gov, our lab used ONLY A-B resistors.
Of course, we had no "lowest bidder" requirement. We were trying to do real stuff.

- Leigh


Agreed.

I will often test the resistors in a device in circuit whenever possible and if I find the majority are in tolerance I leave them alone, but if more than a few are out of tolerance I replace them all except wirewound resistors which are nearly always in tolerance.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Public obsession with replacing capacitors
PostPosted: Feb Tue 13, 2018 11:48 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 34393
Location: Maryland 20709, USA
Tube Radio wrote:
...if more than a few are out of tolerance I replace them all except wirewound resistors which are nearly always in tolerance.
Yep.

Laboratory standard resistors (Leeds & Northrup etc) are all wirewound.
They're the most stable form of resistor available.

Obviously standard resistors are built to different specs than consumer parts, but characteristics generally carry over.

- Leigh

_________________
73 de W3NLB
http://www.AtwaterKent.info
Click "Grebe Stuff" for Synchrophase info


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Public obsession with replacing capacitors
PostPosted: Feb Wed 14, 2018 12:24 am 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 1404
Eickerman wrote:
Yep. The world is flat, you know. I saw it on Youtube. :wink:

Exactly. :!:

_________________
I don't believe in experts. That's why I take my car to a plumber and my taxes to a chef.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Public obsession with replacing capacitors
PostPosted: Feb Wed 14, 2018 1:54 am 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 20343
Location: Warner Robins, GA
Leigh wrote:
Tube Radio wrote:
...if more than a few are out of tolerance I replace them all except wirewound resistors which are nearly always in tolerance.
Yep.

Laboratory standard resistors (Leeds & Northrup etc) are all wirewound.
They're the most stable form of resistor available.

Obviously standard resistors are built to different specs than consumer parts, but characteristics generally carry over.

- Leigh


I will use 1% metal film resistors for replacement wherever possible.


Top
 Profile  
 
Post New Topic Post Reply  [ 197 posts ]  Moderator: Alan Voorhees Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 19&41, Google Adsense [Bot], Number 6 and 24 guests



Search for:
Jump to:  




























Privacy Policy :: Powered by phpBB