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 Post subject: Some people will believe anything....
PostPosted: Nov Sun 17, 2019 8:23 pm 
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You can't fix stupid. :(

https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/16/us/flat- ... index.html

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 Post subject: Re: Some people will believe anything....
PostPosted: Nov Sun 17, 2019 9:17 pm 
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Do people live on both sides of the flat earth? How do I travel from one side to the other? Is there a Bus or train service scheduled. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Some people will believe anything....
PostPosted: Nov Sun 17, 2019 9:34 pm 
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According to an expert quoted in the article people believe conspiracy theories out of a need for empowerment. Unfortunately social media has created an infectious breading ground for such nonsense. The rapid growth of the theorys audience has little to do with the viability of the nonsense and much to do with the need of individuals for empowerment and acceptance in an environment where everybody has access to an unlimited audience. Instead of teaching our children to keep an open mind, we need to be teaching them how to vet what they see, read, and hear.

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 Post subject: Re: Some people will believe anything....
PostPosted: Nov Sun 17, 2019 9:35 pm 
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You can tell he searched REALLY, REALLY hard for proof of a curved earth surface NOT! ..... has the guy never been on a calm flat large water body and watched other vessels disappear below the horizon? Sheesh! Walking proof that the education system failed ...


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 Post subject: Re: Some people will believe anything....
PostPosted: Nov Sun 17, 2019 9:47 pm 
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I read some years back that at tye time of Columbus the concept of flat-earth had already faded. But Washington Irving wrote about Columbus, and put something in about flat earth, which meant many thought it was a more recent belief.

The book was in part to make Columbus look good, perpetuating his place in American history even though he never landed in what became the USA, and there's little connection between him and the USA. But between Italian-Americans and an appafent desire by tye US to distance itself from Britain, Columbus got an upgrade. That's also why "Columbia" is all over the US, I.still don't know what my ancestors called the Columbia River.

Michael


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 Post subject: Re: Some people will believe anything....
PostPosted: Nov Sun 17, 2019 9:49 pm 
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Several years ago, I read a National Geographic issue called "The American War on Science". A version of Looney-Tunes for every taste, but the thing that stuck with me was the percentage of Americans that believe that humans and dinosaurs co-existed. I could live with a few percent, but the number they cited was in the TENS of percent. There is this overwhelming urge to ask people what exactly they were doing in their high-school science classes.

Then there was the schoolteacher whose main hobby was picketing a NASA facility in California. His claim: Photos from a NASA mission had found a face on Mars, and NASA was covering it up. Wouldn't one assume that a teacher could be fired for such nonsense???

But then, consider this: What are the social implications of finding a cure for stupidity?----I argue it would not be a good thing.

Now, what was i supposed to be doing?

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 Post subject: Re: Some people will believe anything....
PostPosted: Nov Sun 17, 2019 10:14 pm 
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...I think there's a reason that in many cultures, those who are "intelligent," "smart," or "wise" are considered to be exceptional (i.e. not the norm).


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 Post subject: Re: Some people will believe anything....
PostPosted: Nov Mon 18, 2019 1:06 am 
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I'm sorry I can't find the link, but there is a site out there that states the moon is much closer to the Earth than "they" say it is. The logic is that because the guy can barely see a city across the lake from where he lives, in order for us to see craters on the moon the moon would be something like ten miles away.


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 Post subject: Re: Some people will believe anything....
PostPosted: Nov Mon 18, 2019 1:19 am 
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pixellany wrote:
Several years ago, I read a National Geographic issue called "The American War on Science". A version of Looney-Tunes for every taste, but the thing that stuck with me was the percentage of Americans that believe that humans and dinosaurs co-existed. I could live with a few percent, but the number they cited was in the TENS of percent. There is this overwhelming urge to ask people what exactly they were doing in their high-school science classes.



We're starting to walk the narrow edge here, but I have encountered people who have a religious faith that prevents them from believing that the earth is as old as it needs to be in order for science to be true. Somehow they are able to internally reconcile science with their faith and ignore the discrepancies.


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 Post subject: Re: Some people will believe anything....
PostPosted: Nov Mon 18, 2019 1:27 am 
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pixellany wrote:
Several years ago, I read a National Geographic issue called "The American War on Science". A version of Looney-Tunes for every taste, but the thing that stuck with me was the percentage of Americans that believe that humans and dinosaurs co-existed. I could live with a few percent, but the number they cited was in the TENS of percent. There is this overwhelming urge to ask people what exactly they were doing in their high-school science classes.

?


They were probably watching The Flintstones.

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 Post subject: Re: Some people will believe anything....
PostPosted: Nov Mon 18, 2019 1:53 am 
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pixellany wrote:
but the thing that stuck with me was the percentage of Americans that believe that humans and dinosaurs co-existed.



You obviously have never read Alley Oop or watched the Flintstones.

P.S. Just watched a documentary on PBS on The Rise of the Mammals after the large six mile across meteor that hit earth near the Yucatan Peninusla some 65 million years ago that wiped out the dinosaurs. If the dinosaurs had not been wiped out, humans would never have existed.


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 Post subject: Re: Some people will believe anything....
PostPosted: Nov Mon 18, 2019 5:12 am 
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I read somewhere that some flat-earthers tried to prove their theory.
They used a laser and three targets with a small hole in the middle. The targets were mounted some distance apart at the same height.
Since the Earth is flat, the laser will shine through all three holes.
They had to raise the third target.

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 Post subject: Re: Some people will believe anything....
PostPosted: Nov Mon 18, 2019 5:24 am 
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The earth is clearly NOT flat.

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 Post subject: Re: Some people will believe anything....
PostPosted: Nov Mon 18, 2019 8:06 am 
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I call them the modern Luddites. :roll:
Santa Claus must be real, why would NORAD track him every year? And all of the other articles, etc. about him. Even this Cheech and Chong video explains a lot of things: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSH9ryRzHQ4
He uses magic dust to make himself real small so that he can get into houses and such.
Also don't forget the Easter Bunny, because there is so much proof all over the place. :D
The moon must be made of green cheese also. No one can disprove it. Do you know personally anyone that has been there?
Also those tabloids have such outlandish headlines, it's in print, so it must be true!
I hear tell of a certain bridge in Brooklyn that may be coming up for sale soon. Maybe these folks should get in on the ground floor real soon and make a fortune before it's too late. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Some people will believe anything....
PostPosted: Nov Mon 18, 2019 9:39 am 
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Greetings to the Forum:

Here's a conspiracy theory for you:

What if the resurgence of the flat earth nonsense is designed to allow people to paint all objectors to scientific orthodoxy with the broad brush of insanity? Of course, the earth is not flat. That does not mean that all scientific orthodoxy is correct.

Two examples come to mind: Darwinian evolution is not supportable, either mathematically or in light of new discoveries in biochemistry and its relation to information science, or by paleontology itself (see the "Cambrian Explosion"). Yet it is taught as fact in the public schools and if you disagree, you are labeled an ignorant backward "kook".

The second example is anthropogenic global warming. Again insupportable by the hard facts and mathematics. Yet it is "settled science", to the extent that there is one professor back east that demands that people be jailed for even expressing doubt.... something that I would think hardly necessary if the evidence is as strong as claimed; however it would seem to highlight the real reason behind the hysteria, namely that it is a wonderful excuse to exercise flagrant tyranny on a free people.

Braithwaite writes:
Quote:
Instead of teaching our children to keep an open mind, we need to be teaching them how to vet what they see, read, and hear.


I quite agree, but unfortunately, that must include what they are taught in school.

Regards,

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 Post subject: Re: Some people will believe anything....
PostPosted: Nov Mon 18, 2019 12:09 pm 
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Somewhere---long ago---someone invented what is commonly known as the "Scientific Method", which includes a set of basic rules and procedures, including things like peer review and repeatable experiments.

But, even longer ago, Homo Sapiens learned a variety of defense mechanisms--including some extraordinary ways of explaining observations and experiences. Any number of theories and beliefs have flourished for the simple reason that they were easier to understand and rationalize. To put it bluntly, if you can't understand and accept something like Newton's laws, then invent something that is easier for you. One could write many books about our creative ability to invent explanations for things we could not understand.

History is full of examples of how we did not behave in our best interests---in many cases because rational observation and interpretation was beyond the capability of a significant percentage of the population. Pick your favorite modern issue and ask yourself what percentage of the people making the most noise have even the most basic understanding of the underlying science.

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 Post subject: Re: Some people will believe anything....
PostPosted: Nov Mon 18, 2019 12:32 pm 
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I suggest caution with the GW words JT. They have a tendency to get threads anthropogenically locked faster than melting permafrost.

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 Post subject: Re: Some people will believe anything....
PostPosted: Nov Mon 18, 2019 2:06 pm 
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Another bit of perspective: Science has become more complex. The basics have not changed, but our understanding has. Example: I grew up with the simple description of the Atom: protons, neutrons, and electrons. It works and helps us understand many things.
But now, it's quarks and spin and stuff---my aging mind just can't go there, but I don't dismiss it just because I don't understand it. The Bohr model still works for many things and the finer points don't disprove the basics.

Evolution: We know more now than in Darwin's time, but I don't think we've disproved the basics.

Climate change: Hugely complicated. There's no credible disagreement that things are changing---the debate is mostly about the causes and remedies. The "elephant in the room" is that---if the theories are even close--we have work to do.

The scientific method is your friend.....whenever you hear something that doesn't sound right, ask for references to the peer-reviewed literature. The system has worked well for over 2000 years---3000 maybe.

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 Post subject: Re: Some people will believe anything....
PostPosted: Nov Mon 18, 2019 2:22 pm 
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John Bartley wrote:
We're starting to walk the narrow edge here, but I have encountered people who have a religious faith that prevents them from believing that the earth is as old as it needs to be in order for science to be true. Somehow they are able to internally reconcile science with their faith and ignore the discrepancies.


Hi John

I'll try not to not cross the line of religion on this forum (and beg Alan's indulgence in advance). I'm an Evangelical Christian and most people would consider me a Bible Thumper. I certainly do not believe that the earth is 3500 years old nor do I believe that man walked with dinosaurs. Unfortunately, a lot of people do a literal reading of Genesis and stop there while there are ample reasons to not take the Genesis creation account literally (both biblical and extra-biblical). One can read scripture or one can study scripture; the results can be very different.

The same group of people that will not let science shed light on biblical passages that are not clear will enthusiastically accept archeological evidence to support Biblical claims. I find that the more science discovers about Cosmology and the universe the more it instills in me the awesomeness of God; it certainly does not detract from the Genesis creation account.

I've been told on numerous occasions that I'm not a "real" Christian as I don't believe in a literal six day creation, yet according to the bible being a Christian has nothing to do with how I choose to interpret Genesis.

My faith as a Christian is in the resurrection of Jesus Christ, which I consider to have exemplary historical proof. When I've taught Apologetics at church I start out by discussing the difference between historical and scientific proof (and go over the scientific method). Most people do not know the difference. I've never found my faith to be at odds with science. I welcome science to help us clarify non-clean biblical passages.

So John, don't assume that if someone is a Christian that they believe in a young earth and man coexisting with dinosaurs.

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 Post subject: Re: Some people will believe anything....
PostPosted: Nov Mon 18, 2019 3:01 pm 
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