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 Post subject: Re: Vinyl To Become The Dominant Physical Format This Year!
PostPosted: Sep Tue 28, 2021 9:48 pm 
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Location: Haledon NJ USA
An old album re-issued onto CD can sound every bit as good as the original record did if the CD is properly mastered. Many CDs of older music are not mastered properly, often using poor source tapes, adding dreaded reverb, overuse of noise reduction software, or destroying the dynamic range to make the CD louder (see: loudness wars), which is a shame because, unlike a phonograph record, the CD format has almost unlimited dynamic range.

Then again, the format with the best sound does not necessarily win. Cassettes were #1 selling format from the mid-1980s through the early 1990s.


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 Post subject: Re: Vinyl To Become The Dominant Physical Format This Year!
PostPosted: Sep Tue 28, 2021 10:06 pm 
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In addition, with the vinyl playback coupled to a tube amplifier, I can tell you right now that this will make for an even more natural and warmer sound than the 'canned' type of music which is commonly associated with the CD's.


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 Post subject: Re: Vinyl To Become The Dominant Physical Format This Year!
PostPosted: Sep Tue 28, 2021 10:09 pm 
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Ken Doyle wrote:
An old album re-issued onto CD can sound every bit as good as the original record did if the CD is properly mastered. Many CDs of older music are not mastered properly, often using poor source tapes, adding dreaded reverb, overuse of noise reduction software, or destroying the dynamic range to make the CD louder (see: loudness wars), which is a shame because, unlike a phonograph record, the CD format has almost unlimited dynamic range.

This. You beat me to it.

I think that the OP has just been reading too much BS that the audiophools post on the interwebs. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Vinyl To Become The Dominant Physical Format This Year!
PostPosted: Sep Tue 28, 2021 10:24 pm 
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master_of_none wrote:
Ken Doyle wrote:
An old album re-issued onto CD can sound every bit as good as the original record did if the CD is properly mastered. Many CDs of older music are not mastered properly, often using poor source tapes, adding dreaded reverb, overuse of noise reduction software, or destroying the dynamic range to make the CD louder (see: loudness wars), which is a shame because, unlike a phonograph record, the CD format has almost unlimited dynamic range.

This. You beat me to it.

I think that the OP has just been reading too much BS that the audiophools post on the interwebs. :wink:



Well yeah, and that sure might explain why vinyl is again the dominant physical audio format. I mean, it was plain to see that people had finally come to realize that they were duped long enough by the snake oil CD pitchmen.


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 Post subject: Re: Vinyl To Become The Dominant Physical Format This Year!
PostPosted: Sep Tue 28, 2021 10:57 pm 
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Joined: Aug Tue 24, 2021 9:18 pm
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Blustar1 wrote:
master_of_none wrote:
Ken Doyle wrote:
An old album re-issued onto CD can sound every bit as good as the original record did if the CD is properly mastered. Many CDs of older music are not mastered properly, often using poor source tapes, adding dreaded reverb, overuse of noise reduction software, or destroying the dynamic range to make the CD louder (see: loudness wars), which is a shame because, unlike a phonograph record, the CD format has almost unlimited dynamic range.

This. You beat me to it.

I think that the OP has just been reading too much BS that the audiophools post on the interwebs. :wink:



Well yeah, and that sure might explain why vinyl is again the dominant physical audio format. I mean, it was plain to see that people had finally come to realize that they were duped long enough by the snake oil CD pitchmen.

You're missing the point that "being the dominant physical format" means very little when it's still a tiny fraction of the market when it comes to the way that consumers listen to music.

As for "snake oil pitchmen" I'm pretty sure I found the one in this conversation. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Vinyl To Become The Dominant Physical Format This Year!
PostPosted: Sep Thu 30, 2021 12:33 am 
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Quote:
As for "snake oil pitchmen" I'm pretty sure I found the one in this conversation. :wink:


Bluestar is a lost cause when it comes to this discussion. I don't know how many times we've cycled through this "vinyl is better" discussion, but it's been over and over. Thing is, you're discussing this with someone who listens to these records on a 1963 Zenith console, and believes he's listening to superior sound quality. There will always be people like this out there. There's a whole segment of the "high end" audio world that buys into this. Stereophile magazine just reviewed a turntable that sells for $375,000. Before that, they reviewed one that sells for a cool half million.

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 Post subject: Re: Vinyl To Become The Dominant Physical Format This Year!
PostPosted: Sep Thu 30, 2021 2:12 am 
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jmsent wrote:
Quote:
As for "snake oil pitchmen" I'm pretty sure I found the one in this conversation. :wink:


Bluestar is a lost cause when it comes to this discussion. I don't know how many times we've cycled through this "vinyl is better" discussion, but it's been over and over. Thing is, you're discussing this with someone who listens to these records on a 1963 Zenith console, and believes he's listening to superior sound quality. There will always be people like this out there. There's a whole segment of the "high end" audio world that buys into this. Stereophile magazine just reviewed a turntable that sells for $375,000. Before that, they reviewed one that sells for a cool half million.




Regarding the 1963 Zenith console, I actually have something that was the state of the art back then. No, the 1963 Zenith console wouldn't compare with a more modern and mid level stereo system like a Kenwood, but the all tube wood floor console is no rookie either.

Well yes, there are assuredly people like me who maintain that the vinyl record is superior to the CD, and as you alluded to, some of those who perhaps subscribe to the Stereophile magazine are one such clientele. I mean, you're never going to convince an astute audiophile otherwise.


Last edited by Blustar1 on Sep Thu 30, 2021 2:27 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Vinyl To Become The Dominant Physical Format This Year!
PostPosted: Sep Thu 30, 2021 2:20 am 
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This. You beat me to it.

I think that the OP has just been reading too much BS that the audiophools post on the interwebs. :wink:[/quote]


Well yeah, and that sure might explain why vinyl is again the dominant physical audio format. I mean, it was plain to see that people had finally come to realize that they were duped long enough by the snake oil CD pitchmen.[/quote]
You're missing the point that "being the dominant physical format" means very little when it's still a tiny fraction of the market when it comes to the way that consumers listen to music.

As for "snake oil pitchmen" I'm pretty sure I found the one in this conversation. :wink:[/quote]



On the contrary, vinyl becoming the dominant physical format once again means quite a bit as vinyl sales are extremely lucrative because of the lofty prices that those LP albums are commanding, and with the corresponding high volumes to boot.


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 Post subject: Re: Vinyl To Become The Dominant Physical Format This Year!
PostPosted: Sep Thu 30, 2021 4:45 am 
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Blustar1 wrote:


On the contrary, vinyl becoming the dominant physical format once again means quite a bit as vinyl sales are extremely lucrative because of the lofty prices that those LP albums are commanding, and with the corresponding high volumes to boot.

You seem to be avoiding the point that vinyl is becoming a larger share of a shrinking market. Physical examples of recorded music are basically obsolete, and will become more so as time goes on.

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 Post subject: Re: Vinyl To Become The Dominant Physical Format This Year!
PostPosted: Sep Thu 30, 2021 5:53 am 
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Joined: Apr Sun 19, 2015 5:25 am
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Location: Tigard, Oregon
The reason I buy and listen to vinyl records is because I enjoy listening to the format. I prefer the sound of records, imperfections and all.

High quality digital audio files are certainly technically better than any physical format. However, digital files lack the enjoyment and experience I get from listening to vinyl records. Vinyl records can sound fantastic when you put the work into getting a good component stereo system together and clean your records. It looks like most people here seem to hate the setup and cleaning, but I actually like it.

To me, playing a record is much more interesting than just hitting the play button on your music subscription service.

The reason I listen to an "obsolete" format is similar to why I collect "obsolete" radios. I enjoy them. There really doesn't need to be another reason than that.

Stop fighting about "which is better" and just enjoy what you like. 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Vinyl To Become The Dominant Physical Format This Year!
PostPosted: Sep Thu 30, 2021 7:33 am 
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Joined: Aug Tue 24, 2021 9:18 pm
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I mainly buy records when I can't find the music anywhere in the digital realm, or when they are cheap. I like records and turntables and always have, but I'm not obsessed with them, and I refuse to spend what they want for overpriced new pressings. Yes, records can sound very good, but they are not the ultimate format that some think they are.

In the end, it's the music that's important to me. Not so much the medium it is stored on. Digital just happens to be the most convenient (and the best :mrgreen: ) so it's the one I use most.


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 Post subject: Re: Vinyl To Become The Dominant Physical Format This Year!
PostPosted: Sep Thu 30, 2021 5:44 pm 
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fifties wrote:
Blustar1 wrote:


On the contrary, vinyl becoming the dominant physical format once again means quite a bit as vinyl sales are extremely lucrative because of the lofty prices that those LP albums are commanding, and with the corresponding high volumes to boot.

You seem to be avoiding the point that vinyl is becoming a larger share of a shrinking market. Physical examples of recorded music are basically obsolete, and will become more so as time goes on.




https://www.ebay.com/itm/304166734105?h ... Sw~l1gbRAn

Quote: "Physical examples of recorded music are basically obsolete..........." Well yeah, that's what I thought when I came across this only a few minutes ago (see above link).


A larger share of a shrinking market? Well, time will tell, but it undoubtedly is a highly profitable one, wouldn't you say? I suppose it all comes down to what meets one's fancy and budget. I mean, as the old adage goes: "You get what you pay for".


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 Post subject: Re: Vinyl To Become The Dominant Physical Format This Year!
PostPosted: Sep Thu 30, 2021 8:48 pm 
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Joined: Aug Tue 24, 2021 9:18 pm
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Blustar1 wrote:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/304166734105?h ... Sw~l1gbRAn

Quote: "Physical examples of recorded music are basically obsolete..........." Well yeah, that's what I thought when I came across this only a few minutes ago (see above link).


A larger share of a shrinking market? Well, time will tell, but it undoubtedly is a highly profitable one, wouldn't you say? I suppose it all comes down to what meets one's fancy and budget. I mean, as the old adage goes: "You get what you pay for".

"A fool and his money are soon parted."

There is a TON of worthless crap on Ebay that ends up going for a fortune. :wink:

People on Ebay pay a fortune for garbage like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/363555483697


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 Post subject: Re: Vinyl To Become The Dominant Physical Format This Year!
PostPosted: Sep Thu 30, 2021 10:09 pm 
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master_of_none wrote:
Blustar1 wrote:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/304166734105?h ... Sw~l1gbRAn

Quote: "Physical examples of recorded music are basically obsolete..........." Well yeah, that's what I thought when I came across this only a few minutes ago (see above link).


A larger share of a shrinking market? Well, time will tell, but it undoubtedly is a highly profitable one, wouldn't you say? I suppose it all comes down to what meets one's fancy and budget. I mean, as the old adage goes: "You get what you pay for".

"A fool and his money are soon parted."

There is a TON of worthless crap on Ebay that ends up going for a fortune. :wink:

People on Ebay pay a fortune for garbage like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/363555483697[/quote''




What may appear as garbage is entirely subjective. In that eBay auction, the eBay seller claimed that those VHS cassettes all contained children's TV shows (including Halloween specials) from the 1990's in which no other copies exist. I mean, I know of some lost and long disregarded silent films ('Saved From The Titanic' 1912, 'The Mystery Mind' 1920, etc. ) in which people would now pay a small fortune to recover them.


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 Post subject: Re: Vinyl To Become The Dominant Physical Format This Year!
PostPosted: Sep Thu 30, 2021 10:26 pm 
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Joined: Aug Tue 24, 2021 9:18 pm
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Blustar1 wrote:
What may appear as garbage is entirely subjective. In that eBay auction, the eBay seller claimed that those VHS cassettes all contained children's TV shows (including Halloween specials) from the 1990's in which no other copies exist. I mean, I know of some lost and long disregarded silent films ('Saved From The Titanic' 1912, 'The Mystery Mind' 1920, etc. ) in which people would now pay a small fortune to recover them.

This is't the early 1900s where commercial film distribution, recording equipment, Youtube, and Torrent sites didn't exist. :roll: Some of those tapes have readily available commercially released movies on them, and the rest of it is almost guaranteed to be available, too. If not, someone has probably uploaded their VHS rips to Youtube. Likely in better quality than a second generation copy, too. Also, just because something hasn't been officially released yet, doesn't mean that it is gone forever. A lot of it is just sitting around in film vaults and warehouses.


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 Post subject: Re: Vinyl To Become The Dominant Physical Format This Year!
PostPosted: Oct Fri 01, 2021 12:15 am 
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Blustar1 wrote:
master_of_none wrote:
Blustar1 wrote:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/304166734105?h ... Sw~l1gbRAn

Quote: "Physical examples of recorded music are basically obsolete..........." Well yeah, that's what I thought when I came across this only a few minutes ago (see above link).


A larger share of a shrinking market? Well, time will tell, but it undoubtedly is a highly profitable one, wouldn't you say? I suppose it all comes down to what meets one's fancy and budget. I mean, as the old adage goes: "You get what you pay for".

"A fool and his money are soon parted."

There is a TON of worthless crap on Ebay that ends up going for a fortune. :wink:

People on Ebay pay a fortune for garbage like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/363555483697[/quote''




What may appear as garbage is entirely subjective. In that eBay auction, the eBay seller claimed that those VHS cassettes all contained children's TV shows (including Halloween specials) from the 1990's in which no other copies exist. I mean, I know of some lost and long disregarded silent films ('Saved From The Titanic' 1912, 'The Mystery Mind' 1920, etc. ) in which people would now pay a small fortune to recover them.

You are now saying that content is the driver for collectible records and tapes, and that is a valid point, but it seems far flung from the OP wherein you were promoting vinyl as an increasing music medium for the masses.

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 Post subject: Re: Vinyl To Become The Dominant Physical Format This Year!
PostPosted: Oct Fri 01, 2021 10:59 pm 
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https://www.makeuseof.com/vinyl-outsold ... for-music/

https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/reasons-w ... r-digital/


Well say, I don't know what to tell you guys who persist in claiming that digital is somehow superior to vinyl. I mean, these articles say it all.


"Vinyl, on the other hand, is a lossless format. The pressings are made directly from the masters and contain all the detail artists intended. This is why vinyl sounds better than digital and the main argument to why the vinyl format has the better sound quality."


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 Post subject: Re: Vinyl To Become The Dominant Physical Format This Year!
PostPosted: Oct Sat 02, 2021 3:32 am 
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Location: Haledon NJ USA
LP record sales in the U.S. peaked in 1977 at 344 million records. In 2020, LP records sales in the U.S. was 22.9 million. It's certainly fair to say that the market for LP records, though on the rise, has shrunken dramatically.

Source: RIAA (The Recording Industry Association of America)

https://www.riaa.com/u-s-sales-database

Looking at dollar sales is deceiving because it doesn't make up for inflation. Look at unit sales.

Records can sound quite good if everything comes together. Good source, good mastering, a stamper that hasn't been over used, good pressing, quality vinyl, a good turntable, and a good cartridge, a good stylus, etc. That's asking for a lot.

I have records that blow the CD out of the water, and I have CDs that blow the record out of the water.


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 Post subject: Re: Vinyl To Become The Dominant Physical Format This Year!
PostPosted: Oct Sat 02, 2021 6:47 am 
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Blustar1 wrote:
https://www.makeuseof.com/vinyl-outsold-cd-what-this-means-for-music/

https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/reasons-w ... r-digital/


Well say, I don't know what to tell you guys who persist in claiming that digital is somehow superior to vinyl. I mean, these articles say it all.


"Vinyl, on the other hand, is a lossless format. The pressings are made directly from the masters and contain all the detail artists intended. This is why vinyl sounds better than digital and the main argument to why the vinyl format has the better sound quality."

As I mentioned, except for a handful of expensive audiophile pressings, most modern records are made from a digital master, so that argument doesn't hold water. There are several streaming services and sites today that sell files that are actually lossless.

Vinyl being "lossless" is total bull crap. It's squiggles stamped into a piece of plastic that are converted back to electrical energy. Plenty of information can be lost in pressing or through playback. Inner groove distortion, surface noise, different cartridges and styli that have their own "sound signature", and other issues effect what is heard. None of those things are "what the artist intended you to hear."

Oh, and, if you think your Magnavox that uses a clunky record changer with a ceramic cartridge is playing back anywhere near what the artists intended you to hear, you must've bumped your head. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Vinyl To Become The Dominant Physical Format This Year!
PostPosted: Oct Sat 02, 2021 3:00 pm 
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Joined: Jan Mon 04, 2010 2:52 am
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Ken Doyle wrote:
LP record sales in the U.S. peaked in 1977 at 344 million records. In 2020, LP records sales in the U.S. was 22.9 million. It's certainly fair to say that the market for LP records, though on the rise, has shrunken dramatically.

Source: RIAA (The Recording Industry Association of America)

https://www.riaa.com/u-s-sales-database

Looking at dollar sales is deceiving because it doesn't make up for inflation. Look at unit sales.

Records can sound quite good if everything comes together. Good source, good mastering, a stamper that hasn't been over used, good pressing, quality vinyl, a good turntable, and a good cartridge, a good stylus, etc. That's asking for a lot.

I have records that blow the CD out of the water, and I have CDs that blow the record out of the water.




Yes, it would be asking a lot, but then again, one gets what they pay for. If one is to expect the ultimate in music enjoyment, they'll simply have to pony up.


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