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 Post subject: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Jul Fri 20, 2018 11:07 pm 
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Today I wrote and recorded a song. I hadn't been playing much as it has felt.a waste of time. People here are not interested in music so the only feedback you get is "very good".Then they change the subject back to what so and so said or did on Facebook. At first I thought maybe my music must be no good but then I tried an experiment. I played a friend
some Earth Wind And Fire, and still got zero interest. In fact I'm now relieved it was Earth Wind And Fire and not me as one girl referred to the recording as "rubbish".Years ago we had The Rolling Stones here and girls screaming and going crazy. Now it's all football. Anyway, despite the total demise of the old British psychedelic, rock and new wave bands I still love music. Hendrix, Beach Boys, Santana and so on. I can share writing pop songs is not a mystical secret. We all do it a bit differently but I tend to do the background guitar and hopefully get a hook before either singing over or improvising. The only bits I dislike are doing lyrics or the B part of the track.


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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Jul Fri 20, 2018 11:10 pm 
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Paul Mccartney a big influence. Also.admired Barry Manilow and loved John Denver.


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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Jul Mon 23, 2018 11:06 am 
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There are probably a lot more people in your boat than you think. I have a CD's worth of original recordings up on SoundCloud.

Every now and then a couple get downloaded by somebody.

I'd suggest posting music in MP3 form up on there, at least it is out there for the masses.


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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Jul Mon 23, 2018 12:49 pm 
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Too bad about radio these days. Used to be in the US that if you could get someone to play one of your songs on the local radio, just tossed into the mix occasionally, you would be heard and gain some recognition in the public. Well you would be heard by everyone unless they deliberately turned it down or off. Which was only worth the effort if the record or demo tape was wretched. Otherwise people listened right along. Now with few independent stations and few willing to reach outside of computer designed music programming, you are stuck with exposure on the net somehow. The net is not playing all the time so if someone sees a strange or unknown song, they probably just pass to something familiar versus taking time to search thru millions of songs and spending much time trying to sort it all out. I know of significant acts in the 70s that got airplay and exposure in programmes that featured local talent and got ahead that way to become known regionally or nationwide. Radio and net are totally different worlds IMO.

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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Jul Mon 23, 2018 4:57 pm 
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You're competing with graduates from Berklee 8) See Imagine Dragons.
This should make you feel better. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qEUdDYc9RLM

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H1qGmuiqQN4


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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Jul Mon 23, 2018 6:31 pm 
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Too bad about radio these days. Used to be in the US that if you could get someone to play one of your songs on the local radio, just tossed into the mix occasionally, you would be heard and gain some recognition in the public.


I'd wager that today's radio is in a new golden age with regard to playing either local musicians or artists who wouldn't get airplay on the mega-commercial stations. I listen to at least 4-5 different independent radios stations and so does my wife. All enabled due to simulcasting of live radio online. The stations I listen to from back home, WDVX, has a live radio show almost every single day and at least 50% of the artists live locally.


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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Jul Mon 23, 2018 7:55 pm 
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You're all off topic! :-) There is no music being written today, just noise... played and sung by the "talent free". :-( Then there's audio compression that will wreck any semblance of a good song.
Cheers,
Roger

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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Jul Tue 24, 2018 10:36 am 
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Quote:
People here...
Not to worry. "People", popu-at-large, leave everything to be desired as arbiters of tonal & lyrical value. Looking at the body of pop releases managing to 'chart' between 1955 and today, one sees largely cowflop with a few gems embedded. Even from the big names like Stones, who peaked between album 2 and 3 and outside that peak made mostly formulaic noise. Didn't affect their commercial viability (the people thing) one farthing.

Bigger names in adjacent fields do the same thing. Rogers & Hammerstein were no big whoop, while at or near the top of the commercial game. John Williams gets old; formulaic/repetitious orchestrations. But ask youtube to play the 3rd season theme from Lost in Space for you. Now that's fresh.

Remarkable for the few times genuine talent coincides with commercial marketability, the 'industry' is a rather muddy* place. [* or other adjective]

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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Jul Tue 24, 2018 4:17 pm 
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arbilab wrote:
Quote:
People here...
Not to worry. "People", popu-at-large, leave everything to be desired as arbiters of tonal & lyrical value. Looking at the body of pop releases managing to 'chart' between 1955 and today, one sees largely cowflop with a few gems embedded. Even from the big names like Stones, who peaked between album 2 and 3 and outside that peak made mostly formulaic noise. Didn't affect their commercial viability (the people thing) one farthing.

Bigger names in adjacent fields do the same thing. Rogers & Hammerstein were no big whoop, while at or near the top of the commercial game. John Williams gets old; formulaic/repetitious orchestrations. But ask youtube to play the 3rd season theme from Lost in Space for you. Now that's fresh.

Remarkable for the few times genuine talent coincides with commercial marketability, the 'industry' is a rather muddy* place. [* or other adjective]

You opened a can of worms there! I am a big fan of Lost In Space. To the point I did a bit of spare time reading about the stars. Bill Mumy, of course, played with America.

I could talk for ages about the subject of, "Did series 2 and 3 betray the die-hard fans of the initial series 1 black and white episodes?"

Anyway, the other night I did something different (and behaving badly too as I ought to be doing more radio repair!). It was about 2.00 a.m. and, after a fair bit of messing on my old keyboard, I somehow ended up with something very alike to the Beach Boys sound. Tempo was pretty much the same as Surfer Girl. Singing very slow and as close to barber-shop as I can get. I've never had a track come out like that one before. Currently it only runs a brief period of time and saved to my mobile phone as a file but the recording is pretty tidy and clear. I am very inexperienced in network but probably I could upload a small file like that to a site somewhere. However, what I really need is a Tascam digital recorder.

Here is Judie Tzuke who I saw perform in the eighties. The cover she did of Brian Wilson's God Only Knows failed for some reason to make any impact. I thought it was quite nice though and here she is recording at a studio.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpQ6L2RABIg

The actual finished track here below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRgAMKaK7s0


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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Jul Tue 24, 2018 8:45 pm 
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arbilab wrote:
Looking at the body of pop releases managing to 'chart' between 1955 and today, one sees largely cowflop with a few gems embedded.

"cowflop"? I guess beauty is in the eye (or ear in this case) of the beholder. I loved and still do most of the fare that came out from the early '50's to the early '60's.

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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Jul Tue 24, 2018 11:21 pm 
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To my mind The Stones were best in the sixties. The seventies rock and roll years were less imaginative although Mick Taylor was a turn for the better. The Stones were very much competition for The Beatles although it's odd their attempt to match Sgt Pepper with Satanic Majesties crashed. One of their best tracks I thought was Going Home where Mick really lets blues and old rocl and roll grind out. You will never hear that kind of sound today. Those guys back then really lived rock and played real guitars, organs, lead guitar, bass and vocals (not autotune). Let's not forget Jefferson Airplane, Hendrix and even Dylan.


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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Jul Tue 24, 2018 11:37 pm 
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It must have been great. In England in the sixties most guys would basically work in factories or the mines. 8 hours a day. The Stones were in the right place doing something different at the right time. They were not great instrumentalists or in any way trained musicians but a good fuzz guitar riff, a cool stage presence and Mick clapping and strutting - they had it all. I figure the rock culture back then was a place for misfits and non conformers to thrive. Really though today it's so funny. All my female friends just don't show the remotest interest in my music (if I play a snippet). They prefer soccer. I was playing a Jefferson Airplane track and one friend told me she thought they were rubbish.


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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Jul Tue 24, 2018 11:57 pm 
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10.7Megahertz wrote:
They were not great instrumentalists or in any way trained musicians but a good fuzz guitar riff, a cool stage presence and Mick clapping and strutting


Brian Jones could pretty well play any instrument he could lay his hands on from lead guitar, piano,harmonica,recorder,saxophone to sitar and then some.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTHxfNGV8Jw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJEk4QnB0FM

Ken


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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Jul Wed 25, 2018 5:43 pm 
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I was listening to Mick Jagger singing today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-rQPJrmpsw

I never quite realised but his vocal range is a little on the lower, deeper side. I found with my voice I sound pancake flat if I sing lower down. I have to try and squeeze into a higher range and then my voice sounds more expressive.

I have to take my hat off to Mick, though. He doesn't have a particularly sweet voice but he can still handle ballads like Angie. Also, Fool To Cry reveals some very personalised vocals, unique to Mick. Of course, it was known Mick was the only Stone who did the vocals as the other band members just didn't want to know. Whereas in the Beach Boys, even Brian was not the best singer. As to the Beatles, Ringo had his songs specially chosen to suit his vocals (not as good as Macca).

Lennon was one of those guys who shares my own voice phobia. Lennon disliked his singing voice. Hendrix also sweated over how he sounded. The lesson you learn from Mick though is confidence is really important. Lots of rock and pop stars were far from being sopranos.

Here is an example of a guy I figure can't really sing and, despite that, nobody seems to mind:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9AHGzRjw9c

Meantime, check out terrific John Denver was even before he became a big name:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukQMm3Bdyco


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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Jul Wed 25, 2018 8:12 pm 
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Keith could sing when he had to, background vocals and solo efforts over the years. No, nothing special vocally, but popularity isn't just about talent.
We all know Ringo can't sing, and that includes Ringo himself, bless his soul. His All Star Band showcases the musicians and singers that he chooses to handle some of the frontman duties. So the end result is a super group of very talented musicians and singers.

Grace Slick said this many years ago, that she has no vocal range, but she is loud, and that was what worked for them, loud with an engaging personality.

It was fun to Spend Some Time Together with Mick and the lads on the Ed Sullivan Show. Imagine the whole family sitting around the B&W TV, watching the British invasion.

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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Jul Wed 25, 2018 8:22 pm 
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Amazing talent John Denver. On that track simple but well timed guitar and a great voice. Locally all I hear in the street is bang, thump bang. John Denver got dropped by EMI when his kind of music took a back seat.


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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Jul Wed 25, 2018 8:40 pm 
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Well there was a folk movement for a while but things changed a bit when Dylan went electric.
Credits to John Denver to sticking with his principles and maintaining popularity as well, in spite of what the music biz was dictating at the time. His skillful vocals and guitar were recognized by his fans, even though he was never given mainstream status by the industry.

Andreas Bocelli - who can deny that man can sing. He worked hard to get his vocal range and he had some formal training, but mostly he had the drive and conviction that he would succeed. Watch the movie of his life, good one to share with friends and family.

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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Jul Thu 26, 2018 3:13 pm 
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Funny business singing. In truth pop singers were never trained or that fantastic. Of course those such as Bowie were exceptional. The fact it was pop music meant it was all about music being open to all. Not everyone had masses of experience. I also agree with that long haired guy on youtube who states everyone who can talk can sing. The secret is to know your key and your range and limits. I mean people would laugh if I tried to do baritone country as my voice is kind of weak and flat in lower ranges. So really a good way is to make recordings to compare various ranges and try to dig out your voice. The lucky ones like John Denver have melodic voices but others may have the vocals to do rock or blues. Also these old bands like The Stones had everything studio processed. Vocals layered and tweaked. Today though that has been taken to extremes so most of what you hear is tinsel.The power in cultural rock and pop was the musicians were not classically trained and some were just kids who gave it a try.


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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Jul Thu 26, 2018 3:45 pm 
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When did Bill Mumy play with America? I quit listening to "adult contemporary" about 20 years ago. I know one member went solo, and then America toured/recorded as a duet. Clarify this for my tired, old brain.
RW

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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Jul Thu 26, 2018 3:47 pm 
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wazz wrote:
Too bad about radio these days. Used to be in the US that if you could get someone to play one of your songs on the local radio, just tossed into the mix occasionally, you would be heard and gain some recognition in the public. Well you would be heard by everyone unless they deliberately turned it down or off. Which was only worth the effort if the record or demo tape was wretched. Otherwise people listened right along. Now with few independent stations and few willing to reach outside of computer designed music programming, you are stuck with exposure on the net somehow.


As far back as the 1980's no radio stations aside from college stations that no one listened to would play a tape or record that wasn't already released and promoted by a record company. It just didn't happen.

Even college stations had their vetting processes. I used to work at one. The station had a music director, who OKed anything and everything played on the station.

The internet has opened it all up for unknown and unsigned musicians. Of course, you are competing with a gazillion other sound files. But at least it is out there. Radio unneeded for that.


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