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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Jul Thu 26, 2018 6:51 pm 
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radiowizard wrote:
When did Bill Mumy play with America? I quit listening to "adult contemporary" about 20 years ago. I know one member went solo, and then America toured/recorded as a duet. Clarify this for my tired, old brain.
RW

Not quite sure how long Bill was with America but there is a billmumy dot com that may give the specifics. Likewise I think Mark Goddard and Marta Kristen have sites. As I.recall tensions simmered in Lost In Space as it was felt Will, The Robot and Dr Smith were getting all the script focus. Bill Mumy later carried on acting, doing comic art and music. He even sang Sloop John B with Marta Kristen in LIS. I also read in an interview that according to B Mumy, Angela Cartright made and sang a cover of The Beatles Rain.


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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Jul Thu 26, 2018 8:49 pm 
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[Quote]Also these old bands like The Stones had everything studio processed. [quote/]True, but Jagger can perform just fine live. I'm sure he wears earbuds so he can monitor his voice and the backup. That was missing on his live TV performances in the 60's.
He probably has ear implants by now. Maybe the director can whisper to him if he's starting to slip a bit.

I wonder if he can still do "Blow away, dandelions....", one of my old favorites.

To do Pop, you have to be popular, and that takes a bit of luck as well as confidence and an attractive personality. I'd have to hire a frontman. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Jul Fri 27, 2018 12:32 am 
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I have a bit of interest in the psychology related to music. I recall John Lennon once stated how everybody said they dug The Beatles but only a tiny percentage understood their music. He was bang on. People will often listen to what others swear is the best thing since sliced bread. Yet if all those thousands really dug The Beatles why did they ditch them in the seventies? Once the band broke up they became out of fashion. People used to laugh at my playing Beatles stuff when punk rock was all the rage. I never quite got this but clearly mass popularity tells people if everyone likes this, it has to be great. Not that The Beatles didn't deserve mass appeal but I think the band became aware the screaming and fainting was becoming mass hysteria. Every time they even spoke on Ed Sullivan the women would scream, sob and go haywire. I notice this started around 1959 with Frankie Avalon (doing Venus). Isn't it amazing though? All the female friends I have just don't relate to my interest in pop and rock (or old radios).I couldn't imagine them screaming or swooning over some long haired androgynous singer with a guitar. I guess the psychology angle helps me as many musicians got seriously depressed after their attempts to be understood via music failed. In.fact so many musicians died young and evwn managers like Brian Epstein. I had to develop a sense of humour over doing music and one sensible path is to follow various activities and not just one. Still I must admit music always captivated me. I enjoy making tracks and find it relaxing.


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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Jul Fri 27, 2018 12:51 am 
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What do you call a musician who has broken up with his girlfriend?
Homeless. :lol:

I should find the Beatles CD from their skiffle, Ain't She Sweet, days. I know it is hard to play all the way thru. But they worked on their harmonies and did the Everly Bros one better with George supplying 3rd vocals. Then they took Really Got a Hold on Me and sold it back to White America.
I think it was the cute Liverpool accents that were making girls wet themselves. So being from England was a bonus for a lot of bands, British invasion. Time to start a new one. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Jul Fri 27, 2018 1:31 am 
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10.7Megahertz wrote:
Every time they even spoke on Ed Sullivan the women would scream, sob and go haywire. I notice this started around 1959 with Frankie Avalon (doing Venus).

Earlier, '56-'57 with Elvis.

Frankie Avalon's first big hit was Dee Dee Dinah, early '58.

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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Jul Fri 27, 2018 4:04 am 
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westcoastjohn wrote:
What do you call a musician who has broken up with his girlfriend?
Homeless. :lol:
What is a drummer? Someone who hangs out with musicians.

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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Jul Fri 27, 2018 10:29 am 
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Quote:
What is a drummer? Someone who hangs out with musicians.
I'll take that as an editorial exaggeration. If you meant it, do the aural spectrum a favor and don't take up drums. There's already plenty of drummers who might have done better staying in the foodservice industry.

Haven't interviewed 'everyone' but the concensus seems he who makes the most noise is the best drummer. Well, ignorance IS bliss innit? Really. The list of things I wish I didn't know grows exponentially these days.

Google Hal Blaine. On everything from America, Simon & Bullwinkle, Frank Sinatra, Everlys, 5th Dimension, Beach Boys, Monkees, Steely Dan........ I haven't found a web listing comprehensive enough to catch his entire discography in one place. NOT noisy. Right lick at the right time every time. That's a good drummer. (Dam few of us left.)

Drummers do appear to have mental health tendencies. 3 off the top of my head who went boobats; Skip Spence, Spencer Dryden, Jim Gordon. Pharma may have had a role as trigger. Gordon was Hal Blaine's progeny, so he wasn't always crazy.

Wait a tick, how do I know that above? Cuz I listened to all of them. What does that make me? A schizophile? Not exclusive to drummers though, one of our rhythm guit's ended up institutionalized. OTOH one of our lead vocals ended up a Mercedes salesman with a posh manse on the lake.

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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Jul Fri 27, 2018 1:39 pm 
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Psychological disorders very common in musicians as a whole. Lennon may have been bipolar and John Denver wrecked his house with a chainsaw. Brian Wilson suffers from schizophrenia and even Grace Slick blew a concert after drunkenly insulting the German audience. It helps to be a bit off the intermediate frequency at least so far as the music goes.


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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Jul Fri 27, 2018 1:52 pm 
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One thing about music compared to electronics is music can be excellent but lack complexity. You can write and play melodies without needing years of study. Whereas electronics takes some time to get good at it. If I overthink music the sound may suffer. Sure it takes years to become a great piano player but most pop tunes only require simple piano. The Beach Boys had a good system: Barbershop vocal training and then 12 bar blues. Simple catchy lyrics.


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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Jul Fri 27, 2018 5:30 pm 
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Here is Norman Wisdom in the role of a city banker in London during the 1960s. In the movie he meets a flower child female who tries to get him to turn on, tune in and drop out.

It's easy to forget the sixties by today's standards were still pretty conservative. The songs I Am The Walrus and part of I Can't Get No Satisfaction were censored by the BBC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQj3k_JhdcA


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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Jul Fri 27, 2018 5:34 pm 
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Bill Mumy today more recently.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gk3cKp__M2s


Last edited by 10.7Megahertz on Jul Fri 27, 2018 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Jul Fri 27, 2018 5:34 pm 
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This Lost In Space episode was my definite favourite of series three. They picked up on the psychedelic craze of the time (1968) and so made a script where Penny drops out and turns on, with even Dr Smith getting the vibrations:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tG95gzvIWGU


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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Jul Sat 28, 2018 4:44 am 
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arbilab wrote:
Quote:
What is a drummer? Someone who hangs out with musicians.
I'll take that as an editorial exaggeration. If you meant it, do the aural spectrum a favor and don't take up drums. There's already plenty of drummers who might have done better staying in the foodservice industry... That's a good drummer. (Dam few of us left.).
Actually, it was a snide remark that I heard many years ago that made me smile... rather insulting to good drummers, of course, who, along with bass players, give a solid foundation to much good music.
Cheers,
Roger

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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Jul Sat 28, 2018 11:58 am 
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Heheh, bet I heard it longer ago than you did. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Jul Sat 28, 2018 5:58 pm 
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arbilab wrote:
Heheh, bet I heard it longer ago than you did. :mrgreen:
I altered the joke I posted, as it was originally a 'drummer' joke, told to me by a guitar player.

Other musicians will poke fun at the drummer, all in good fun. All he has to do is tap along with the tune. But we know there is plenty of talent required to be an exceptional drummer. And somehow the drummer always walks away with at least one gal undertow at the end of the gig. :x
"His girlfriend is now hanging out with the drummer, haha", but they were jealous.

Speaking of Pop Music, what gives a tune that Hook?
If you can get that into the tune, it will soar to the top.
Here's one that comes to mind - 'Your Love Has Lifted Me Higher' by Jackie Wilson, I think,'Fifties will correct if wrong. 2 chords, masterful vocals, and there is something about the tempo and an understated skill in the backup, I'm guessing Stax Records?
Nope, you're right, fifties, it is the Funk Bros, Motown.
I suppose the DJ's loved it, so they played the record several times a day.
And maybe today that song would stagnate without some other form of promotion. But the hook is the key, IMO.

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Last edited by westcoastjohn on Jul Sun 29, 2018 12:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Jul Sat 28, 2018 6:47 pm 
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I liked Bill Mumy's track posted above. The snag is good music goes unappreciated. In my locality all you hear on car radios is the usual thump thump bang and really crude, repetitive lyrics. You might say sound created by the talentless for the tone deaf. On the radio it is far better as the DJs seem to realise they have to dig back 2 decades to find decent pop. Anyway I agree with Bill you can write a song but not know what it's about. Often the whole thing just comes to you and there it is.


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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Jul Sat 28, 2018 7:59 pm 
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westcoastjohn wrote:

Speaking of Pop Music, what gives a tune that Hook?
If you can get that into the tune, it will soar to the top.
Here's one that comes to mind - 'Your Love Has Lifted Me Higher' by Jackie Wilson, I think,'Fifties will correct if wrong. 2 chords, masterful vocals, and there is something about the tempo and an understated skill in the backup, I'm guessing Stax Records?
I suppose the DJ's loved it, so they played the record several times a day.
And maybe today that song would stagnate without some other form of promotion. But the hook is the key, IMO.

The first key, I would suggest, is the vocalists reputation, and Jackie Wilson was known as "Mr. Excitement", so there's a couple hundred thousand sales right there. The composition of that arrangement was done in the usual excellent tradition of the Motown backup group, so no surprise it made the top 10 in the summer of '67.

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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Jul Mon 30, 2018 4:31 am 
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westcoastjohn wrote:
... Here's one that comes to mind - 'Your Love Has Lifted Me Higher' by Jackie Wilson IMO.
Here's that song by Rita Coolidge...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mC6l7ypNqKA

Love the bass line... and the drums! The days of good music...
Cheers,
Roger

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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Jul Mon 30, 2018 5:23 pm 
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Ok, I picked that tune because it is simple enough that anyone could have written and played it.
But both artists, Jackie and Rita, were already known to the masses. Also professional studio production and marketing played a major role.

We need a better example(s) of a hit song that anybody could have written and performed. There are many to choose from. More Than a Feeling (Bostn) still gets more than its share of airplay. No, we don't need a link to that one.

A young talented artist can still make it as a Pop star today. Adele, for example. I don't know if she is young, but she has talent, no doubt.

Old guys don't qualify, I'm afraid, unless you already have star status, such as Lorne Greene in the late 60's. The thing to do is hire a cute young talented singer and then provide him/her with the material that you've written. Take 100 pop songs and analyze them, find the common thread and then weave that into an original.
Play several bars of the introduction on a Rickenbacker 12-string, that seems to work well. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Jul Mon 30, 2018 7:57 pm 
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westcoastjohn wrote:
The thing to do is hire a cute young talented singer and then provide him/her with the material that you've written.

Well, Fabian was considered cute and young, but I understood that it took 28 takes for him to record, "I'm A Tiger" in '59. Talented? Mmm, not so much.

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