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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Jul Mon 30, 2018 9:24 pm 
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You should try taking your guitars or keyboards and making a back track. Then use the recorder on a mobile phone and sing into the backing. I even did Day Tripper before. I dubbed the lead guitar over bass and threw in a few organ chords. And then just sang the lyrics. Then you play it back. Of course it's hard to judge your own voice. Clearly there have been poor recordings. One thing I learned is go ahead and change the key if it helps the vocals. Or try a new way of singing it. I am terrified though of playing my recordings to female friends as they pull no punches. I once heard a story of a guy who had rehearsed a guitar vocal act as part of an entertainment student gig. Midway through his performance, he heard a girl say, "I wish he would get off the stage!" The musician was then psyched out and struggled to finish the song. The truth is to sing and play publically you need a thick skin.


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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Jul Mon 30, 2018 11:16 pm 
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10.7Megahertz wrote:
You should try taking your guitars or keyboards and making a back track. Then use the recorder on a mobile phone and sing into the backing. I even did Day Tripper before. I dubbed the lead guitar over bass and threw in a few organ chords. And then just sang the lyrics.
I for one know what I sound like. I could play party guitar to poeple that are half-cut. But no, to make it fly, it needs a bigger voice, with personality. I'd get George Clooney to sing the verses, why, because he'd be half-serious, but carefree.
8)

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Last edited by westcoastjohn on Jul Tue 31, 2018 4:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Jul Tue 31, 2018 12:01 am 
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Two things bugged me in my life and held me captive. The first was dyscalculia. Not that I was diagnosed with it but I used to panic at the sight of a maths question. Only some three or four years ago I knew I had to tackle maths due to my radio hobby. This turned out to be like jogging. You start off drained after the first session but gradually you improve. The next bogey man was singing. I always hated it. I was an amateur musician and I couldn't sing. Again, as with the radio tech hobby, I felt I had to do something. I actually researched singing. I concluded the news is good: we can all sing. We may not all have a sweet, melodic voice and I admit some sing better than others but few are the people who are hopeless cases. Here are my tips: Record yourself to a backing. Play it back. Detect your range. Is it baritone or tenor. Do you sing orthodox like Ringo or deep like Elvis? In time you learn raising pitch and drawing out words adds enthusiasm to your vocals. My very own brutal recommendation too is to use no microphone and thus expose your efforts to private ridicule. I recall I have sounded dreadful at times and even ashamed. You seriously consider packing it in on those days. Despite that if you can improve then the next stage of audio processing is a powerful tool. You can layer your voice. Add reverb. The effects of this are so awesome the stars today will mime at gigs. I now understand why they do this. If I sing a track ten times maybe only one attempt will nail it. For the single strawberry fields forever, Lennon made scores of attempts. The best was chosen and then audio processed. Only the very practised vocalists can sing live and still.sound good.


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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Jul Tue 31, 2018 12:11 am 
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Weirdly all these "bee bop da boo" tunes would never work for me. I can relate more to the ballad sound. I can almost handle rock but my voice is kind of weak. Easiest for me is Mccartney ballads. I also like Larry Normans vocals. Also discovered Gino Soccio.


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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Jul Tue 31, 2018 12:20 am 
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Well maybe you'll write an American Pie tune with a British twist, and it will be discovered. Cheers, mate.
But look at how Paul would open a show, not with a dreamy ballad. First he grabs his audience and gets them rocking with an ass-kicker (my words, not his), like Jet. Engage your audience with excitement.

My daughter was putting together a playlist for the high school dance, and her music teacher said, get kids dancing with your first selection. Eurythmics, Sweet Dreams didn't cut it. They went with Tommy James, Moany, moany.

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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Jul Tue 31, 2018 4:02 pm 
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Not long ago I discovered Gino Soccio. I liked the electric sound that took him into the eighties.

I know people will click on this video of Gino performing as there is EYE CANDY. Yes, women dancing. This allows Gino to very casually stroll onto the stage (backed by the women) and begin the track.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oac7oxBQeds


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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Jul Tue 31, 2018 4:13 pm 
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Words can't describe this clip Has anyone seen the movie Pleasantville? If not, it is totally worth watching. Two teenagers wind up transported into a 1950s soap opera called Pleasantville. I think Frankie Avalon here represents a kind of golden era of innocence. This was when females started to first scream and get hysterical over their pop idols. Rock and pop stars simply had it made. They were the ideal of manhood and embodied all the qualities females swooned over and other guys wanted to imitate.
Frankie says he actually held his nose when doing Venus to enhance his voice, so he said.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fakpqLDEQAo


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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Aug Sun 12, 2018 9:26 pm 
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I am a bit curious as to whether James Mccartney has put his music career on hold. After his album Blackberry Train and some organised live gigs in the USA, I found no news on James' s website relating either to new tours or new albums. Given all the other Beatle offspring have struggled in the industry, I wonder if discouragement set in? Recently I read an interview of Lyle Mays who stated his music tour days were o ver and he was now doing software design and architecture. Lyle cited lack of financial incentive in music compared with what he can earn in architecture. Actually Lyle sort of blew me away when I heard his melodic synth leads on early albums with Pat Metheny. Anyway I guess my point is trying to be a musician today is a tough choice. The record companies only seek what they "think" sells. Much of the demand is for simple background music very much dumbed down at that. I recall being driven half insane by such music played publically and when, by chance, A Day In The Life was aired, it got switched off. In fact, when I saw that happen, I was stunned. For the record I thought James Mccartney has a share of his father's talent and maybe in the same situation as Bill Mumy. That is you make music the way you were influenced but society has altered a lot.


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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Aug Fri 17, 2018 5:43 pm 
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Finally there was an update. James and Sean Lennon posted a pic of themselves together which led to some speculation the two offspring of the Beatles (John and Paul) may have decided to team up and record some music of their own. Beyond that, the idea was floated some months ago that Dhani Harrison may get involved. That is the idea to create a Beatles New Generation band.

As a die-hard Beatle fan, I must admit I guess I'm sceptical. The whole scenario today is so radically different. Even if you could take the original Beatles as they were in the mid sixties, the question is would they make any impact today? Given they were so talented, I suppose they would have become known but certainly not on the scale of Sgt Pepper fame and as a social phenomenon.

To be honest, I figure having super famous parents as musicians and then being a musician yourself, must be a tough hand to deal from. Are people going to go and listen to the music because they really dig it, or are they basically nostalgic?

As to Dhani I seem to recall he may work in aircraft engineering and mechanics. His dad George became very quiet and reclusive after the Beatles split and liked to do gardening.


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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Aug Sat 18, 2018 4:04 am 
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You knew this but just forgot - George had a very successful solo career after the Beatles, writing and recording some of his best material. He started the Big Name benefit concert concept with Bangladesh. Then a decade or so later, he resurfaced with the Traveling Willburys.
But no doubt, he enjoyed peaceful gerdening too, and even wore Wellies or gumboots on his early solo album cover, the name of which escapes me now.

Re: The sons getting together to form a group, they better be quick about it, as they are getting a bit long in the tooth for that. Maybe the motivation is lacking there. They just are not that hungry.

Dino, Desi, and Billy got national TV coverage, as well as support from their show biz dads. But still flopped from a basic lack of ability. Not so Jerry Lewis's son Gary, who did well on his own. Cheers.

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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Aug Sat 18, 2018 6:44 am 
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westcoastjohn wrote:

Dino, Desi, and Billy got national TV coverage, as well as support from their show biz dads. But still flopped from a basic lack of ability. Not so Jerry Lewis's son Gary, who did well on his own. Cheers.

Or Hank Williams Jr...

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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Aug Sat 18, 2018 9:04 pm 
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westcoastjohn wrote:
You knew this but just forgot - George had a very successful solo career after the Beatles, writing and recording some of his best material. He started the Big Name benefit concert concept with Bangladesh. Then a decade or so later, he resurfaced with the Traveling Willburys.
But no doubt, he enjoyed peaceful gerdening too, and even wore Wellies or gumboots on his early solo album cover, the name of which escapes me now.

Re: The sons getting together to form a group, they better be quick about it, as they are getting a bit long in the tooth for that. Maybe the motivation is lacking there. They just are not that hungry.

Dino, Desi, and Billy got national TV coverage, as well as support from their show biz dads. But still flopped from a basic lack of ability. Not so Jerry Lewis's son Gary, who did well on his own. Cheers.

I did think the My Sweet Lord court case was just bad luck for George as subconscious plegiarism is real. This happened to me too. I wrote a song and then one day I was watching a dvd and there it was: An instrumental. Clearly I had heard it before and it was recorded in my subconscious. With George it was He's So Fine. Much later George wrote a track called This Song, which states "there's nothing fishy about it". He means you just play around with chords and stuff just comes to you. Every song you write is somehow influenced by the music around you. In George's case it was clear My Sweet Lord just came to him but really it was in truth He's So Fine.


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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Aug Sat 18, 2018 11:17 pm 
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[quote=Not so Jerry Lewis's son Gary, who did well on his own. Cheers.[/quote]

The story of Gary Lewis and the Playboys is just sad. They were hired because they could play, but once in the recording studio, the band was replaced with studio musicians. Then there's the gobs of reverb they put on Gary's voice:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19224ouIqZw


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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Aug Sat 18, 2018 11:44 pm 
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A famous account of George was the Beatle trip to San Francisco. The idea was to meet the flower people fans. He was bitterly disappointed. To the point he quit serious drugs. George described most of the fans he met in Frisco as spotty youths, misfits and bums. Not the peaceful, creative hippy types he had expected. He may have been hit by cold reality. I mean even the Manson Family.were big Beatle fans but maybe George wondered if the psychedelic phase had somehow spoiled it all. Very soon after George got more into Indian philosophy and was free to no longer be a Beatle. Paul of course formed Wings and John just retreated to New York. I myself was one of those very rare souls who followed Wings. I still have fond memories of albums like London Town. I also loved Tug Of War when it came out as a solo album but at that time Michael Jackson was right on top.


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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Aug Sun 19, 2018 12:03 am 
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10.7Megahertz wrote:
In George's case it was clear My Sweet Lord just came to him but really it was in truth He's So Fine.

I never realized any connection between the two records until you pointed it out; amazing. Yeah, the rhythm or pitch or whatever of the lead singers DO sound alike.
So there was a plagiarism suit against him for the alleged transgression of the Chiffons wax? What did it cost him?

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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Aug Sun 19, 2018 4:53 am 
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fifties wrote:
10.7Megahertz wrote:
In George's case it was clear My Sweet Lord just came to him but really it was in truth He's So Fine.


So there was a plagiarism suit against him for the alleged transgression of the Chiffons wax? What did it cost him?
This was a big story in the 70's. Where were you? :lol:
Eventually the judge declared it was subconscious plagiarism. But George admitted having heard the Chiffons tune and that meant he was still guilty. The price was $1.6 million.
Phil Spector was involved in the production of My Sweet Lord, but somehow came out unscathed. IMO, he of all people must have heard the similarity.
My Sweet Lord sold 10 million copies, so no harm done.

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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Aug Sun 19, 2018 5:10 pm 
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I consider I have a pretty decent sense for connecting songs. For example, it seemed to me that Penny Lane was very close to God Only Knows. Mccartney was very impressed by God Only Knows which came out in 1966. I have this idea of Paul casually strumming God only knows and working in Penny Lane. My feeling is this is no news to Brian Wilson.as the re-release pop version of God Only Knows features a Penny Lane trumpet solo. Anyway, prior to My Sweet Lord musicians frequently "lifted" material. If you don't do it deliberately it may happen subconsciously. Anyway, not long ago I workef out the riff to The Last Time by The Stones and slowed it down to a softer acoustic guitar variant. However many riffs are my own and most of my songs are my own.


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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Aug Sun 19, 2018 5:19 pm 
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Another one is Russ Tamblyn's Tom.Thumb theme compared to Gilbert O Sullivan's What's In.A Kiss. I once made a cover of What's In A Kiss and someone remarked it sounded like the Tom Thumb song.


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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Aug Tue 21, 2018 3:06 am 
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Ken Doyle wrote:
[quote=Not so Jerry Lewis's son Gary, who did well on his own. Cheers.

The story of Gary Lewis and the Playboys is just sad. They were hired because they could play, but once in the recording studio, the band was replaced with studio musicians. Then there's the gobs of reverb they put on Gary's voice:


But I like the reverb in the guitar part coming in after the organ. Face it, for the record to make it to the top, it had to be exceptional. The record producer had to maximize studio time, so he listened to the Playboys and then hired professionals he could rely on. Maybe if the members of the Playboys had more personality and style in their live performances, they would have had a better reception in the studio? I have no idea, and we never got to learn even their names or anything about them.

There was never any question of replacing Jimmy Page with a studio musician, same for many other distinguished pop artists.

I was thinking up tunes for someone I'll be teaching guitar chords. 'House of the Rising Sun' is fun to learn and play, you can finger pick it or play it with a pick. And it is impressive when you show other people what you can do. Then I thought of a tune she likes, the Leadbelly tune 'In the Pines. Whatdoya know, you can sing In The Pines to the tune of The House of
the Rising Sun', same chord progression. So did Eric Burdon plagiarize the old Leadbelly tune? Not really, because lots of tunes use the same progressions as others. Especially Blues tunes.

(House of the Rising Sun was performed by Blues men and maybe women long before Eric, so somebody should look it up, did the writer get royalties?)

I don't think George was guilty, either. He said his inspiration was the spiritual song 'Oh Happy
Day'. Which he changed to make it his own. But now I wonder if Phil Spector somehow triggered the lawsuit, maybe in a chat with buddys in Motown? But I wouldn't want to start a fake rumor based on Spec-ulation. :lol:

In the pines, in the pines, Where the sun, never shines, I was shiverin the whole night through....

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 Post subject: Re: Pop Musician (lost art)
PostPosted: Aug Sat 25, 2018 11:32 pm 
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All my songs just deleted themselves from my mobile phone recorder files. I was not happy about it. The recordings help me replay the tracks. My synth is too old to have permanent memory. I can layer out up to six tracks but when you switch off the recording is lost. So, my mobile phone allows me to record and sing into the tracks. It also allows me to slow down and record a riff for reference. I don't know how those files got deleted. Likely it was movement of the phone in my pocket. Last night I slept badly as my recording of one of my best songs had gone and I feared I'd not be able to get the guitar riff right from memory. Fortunately, I did manage to sound it in my head and save the song. This was a really cool song and very catchy but the riff has a sneaky timing to it so it sounds right. The other songs I suspect will come back to me as I practise. No idea how long that will take but your subconscious literally stores all of this.


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