A local guy is selling an Emerson model 609 projection TV. It looks like the one in this RM page, only with the dark cabinet:

http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/emerson_609_120084b.html

I haven't restored any projection TVs, so it's interesting from that viewpoint; plus, it has a smaller footprint than some of the projection whales.

On the other hand, I have never been impressed by Emerson's build quality. And I have read things that make this sound like an unpleasant project (HV tripler in an oil-filled can?).

Has anyone actually restored a 609? What sort of image did it make?

Regards,

Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

I don't have experience with that model myself but from what I understand it does use a weird circuit for high voltage, a hot chassis with a ballast tube and a power transformer. If the guy isn't asking an astronomical price I would go get it.

I tell you that has got to be the most difficult of ANY vintage sets to get going. The basic chassis is tricky, considering a power transformer is used + a B+ voltage doubler, therefore it's got a hot chassis. The high voltage assembly either works or it doesn't.....they are available if you ask around. Those 3NP4's are around. If you get it to work this far, you'll find the spherical mirror has rust on it....they work real nice once they are re-silvered. Assuming all of the above works out, you'll enjoy a very nice television. Whoever bought it might have waited a year for the 21-inch sets to come....Craig

The hot chassis doesn't seem like such a big deal. What else is tricky about it? Lots of poor quality components? Lots of things hard to reach? I understand that the optics can be a separate can o' worms.

If I understand the Protelgram idea correctly, it roughly substitutes for the HV output/kine sections, and the rest of the TV can be conventional. Which means that Emerson was responsible for, say, maybe 90% of the design and build. In my limited experience with Emerson radios, they are pretty cheap stuff. Could I expect the same of this TV?

Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

Projection TV's are like most TV/radio/phono combo's - they never have caught-on with collectors due to their weight and boxy design. I know a long-time TV collector/dealer/restorer who will work on any set from a pre-war to a '70's micro TV and has not or will not work on a projection set. For all the work involved I heard the picture on them is nothing impressive. Still, I think it's great for someone to save and restore these neglected pieces of history.

Yes, that's right. Same setup was used in the compact Scott 6T11. It actually has a standard flyback but it's only used to drive the horizontal yoke winding. The HV winding is unused.
http://www.tvhistory.tv/1948-Scott-6T11-Proj.JPG


These protelgram sets are much smaller and lighter than their cousins with the 5" projection CRTs and big optical assemblies.

I've reviewed all of your restore projects at your website and I am confident you have the skill set necessary to restore that Emerson projection unit. If your unable to restore it your website could probably document one failed restore project. But I am confident that you can tackle this restore project

Well, thanks for the vote of confidence. Anything can be fixed, I suppose, and if I get stymied I can get good advice from forums like this.

Space and time are the big issues. I have run out of space, so I would need to sell something else to make room for this set. And I'm trying to avoid accumulating things that I'll restore "someday." Currently I'm working on a TV that I've had sitting around since 2013. After that, I need to return to a set that I got back in 2011. There are more waiting in line after that!

Phil Nelson

Projection sets are the Rodney Dangerfields of Tv collecting. I had and sold a mint RCA 8pcs41 1947-48 set , and I do mean mint..that only got one ebay bid a couple years ago. The chain and burlap type primitive CRT shroud inside, along with the reflective mirror... so super cool... A tiny CRT that aimed DOWN to the bowl mirror and back up again... I mean how cool is that..?? And yet they languish when sold. So sad.... us guys who are getting to be 60 and up just have run out of knee fluid, back discs, and time...
I know some of you really feel bad..as I do..it really hurts to see these amazing primitive machines get ignored.

Ok so, you me and a bunch of us guys get some kegs and go round em up. They are beyond boat anchors sadly, but they definitely ARE awesome cool to have, restore and collect! I love obscure, quirky technology that actually made it into production!

George

Well, the Emerson 609 TV was listed for weeks with no buyers, and they eventually dropped the price by $100, so I went to take a look and ended up bringing it home.

All of the parts and pieces are there. It looks like it was never serviced apart from tube replacements. The cabinet only has the usual minor scuffs & whatnot. The worst defect appears to be a little poke in the speaker cone.

The photos are from the CL ad. I removed the two Protelgram parts from the cabinet and then we were able to (carefully!) slide it on its back into my SUV.

I have two challenging projects to finish before I tackle this one, so it will just have to rest quietly for a while.

Regards,

Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

Wow..great find..! ... and yet......it sat......noone wanted it. Wow..Thanks for rescuing it.... a super cool and not commonly seen set.

I really like that set Phil. Those projection sets had to be super expensive back then. I bet that unit had to cost almost or equal or maybe more than that of a automobile back then. The projection sets I've seen out here in California made in the late 40s have been enormous in size, kinda like a double door refrigerator laying down on the floor but a little bigger.

That's the nicest one I have seen. One later version was made that lacked the folding top. They also came in a blonde cabinet. If you choose to replace the voltage doubler with modern diodes, a quick check for correct polarity, etc., would be feeding the doubler about 6 volts a.c. and see what comes from it. An old Indian showed me that one. Craig

The CL listing included a 1949 Emerson ad (below) giving the price as $599.

The comparatively small size of this TV was a big plus for me. Scott made a tabletop projection set, but apart from that, all of the others seem huge.

I stopped by the library and copied the Riders manual. For anyone who's curious, here are scans of a summary page and the full schematic.

http://antiqueradio.org/art/Emerson609T ... ySmall.jpg

http://antiqueradio.org/art/Emerson609T ... cSmall.jpg

Regards,

Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

Think would might have happened, someone might have stuck a LCD VGA screen in place of the projection screen in it...

if it cant be restored i'm not saying gut it... just add one of those new teeny tiny lcd projectors...

If the correction lens that is mounted on the top of the optics box is the same as in European sets then I would treat it with caution if you were tempted to try splitting it open to clean it.

The lens is formed by gelatine moulded to give the correct contour and is not really cleanable. It is formed on a plain glass and protected by a second sheet of plain glass spaced above the contour.

Peter

What a nice set Phil! Great that you decided to buy it, letting it go would have been a real loose.

I've struggled a lot with an european projection set. It was a Philips from 1952. It uses the Protelgram-like 25KV HV section, which is certainly a real nightmare.

That famous "can" contains the flyback, three rectifier tubes and several capacitors, and oil of course. In my set the can was deffective.

Back then I was in touch with an european expert on these kind of sets who sent the oil to be examined at a lab and found out that it does not contain pcb (there were a lot of people who thought the oil was dangerous). Anyway, unless you try to open the can to repair it, you won't have problems with that. I don't know what kind of oil Emerson was using on their cans.

This guy made an attemp to repair one of those cans. He drained all the oil overnight and took all the elements out of the can. It seems the flyback is made with a very thin wire and tends to break easily. Caps are said to be extremely reliable. After a lot of work he got the can working again but it didn't last too long. They were not meant to be repaired back then, Philips was selling the can as a spare part.

As you said, the can together with the HV power supply can be replaced by any 25kv source. In my case I used the circuit board of a regular color monitor from an old PC I had around. Any board from a color TV or monitor will work because they are meant to deliver more or less the same HV for color CRTs. I kept the original parts in place and hid the added board near the mirror of the set so it can not be easily seen when removing the back cover.

HV has to be watched thoroughly because the small CRT on the projection set starts emiting X-rays if the voltage is overated.

Something else, these CRTs are extremely sensitive to loss of sweep. The HV is so high for a tiny tube like that that the energy impacting on the phosphor is just enormous. If it gets concentrated on a spot or on a line (vertical or horizontal) the phosphor will be burnt out forever and will just vanish leaving a permanent mark on the screen. The original circuit comes with a bilt in protection which blocks the electron emission until the sweeps start runing, but just in case and to feel more confident I added a small delay circuit to the HV supply which energizes the HV solid state board only after all the tubes are hot and the sweeps are up and running. I set the delay in around 30 seconds which widely covers the heating time of the tubes. With the original HV supply this is not necessary of course because the heating time of the tubes on it naturally delays its start-up time.

I hope these comments are useful. Maybe your can is working and you will not need to replace it.

Good luck with your project!!!

Thanks for your comments, normende.

Yes, I am crossing my fingers in hopes that the precious can -- not to mention the optics -- is usable. I don't have a good place to put this TV and there are other projects ahead of it, but it was being passed around as a piece of "Deco" furniture and looked like it would be lost to TV-dom forever unless I rescued it.

It may be a long time before I can begin working on this TV. Presently I am battling a Dumont RA-102 TV with its own peculiar problem in the HV area (you can get a glimpse of that issue at http://antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtop ... 9&t=307679 ).

Using a delay is a good idea. Coincidentally, the Dumont RA-102 has exactly that feature, using a 6AL5 tube. As the manual explains, the delay circuit allows the sweep tubes to warm up before it energizes the 400-volt line and allows the sweep and HV circuits to operate. The main goal was to protect the CRT.

Regards,

Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html