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 Post subject: Re: Going to buy radio tomorrow PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Mar Wed 14, 2018 10:37 pm 
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Joined: Feb Mon 19, 2018 11:33 pm
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Location: Lafayette Louisiana
thanks! Looks like 90% of the photos are no longer working but I get the idea.


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 Post subject: Re: Going to buy radio tomorrow PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Mar Wed 14, 2018 11:18 pm 
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Location: Mountains of Mourne. Ireland.
For years I had nothing more than two plastic (1000lb yellow-top) Stanley folding sawhorses and a flush finished hollow core door. Rock solid. Lol
Image
You've heard the one about the guy who walks into the music store and asks...
'which piano should I buy to sound like Beethoven'?

:) Greg.

Edit: If you're a disorganized right-brainer, like a few folks around here... :). then this is where you'll end up!
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The late Jim Williams' bench. (Linear Technology Corp).
https://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1259711


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 Post subject: Re: Going to buy radio tomorrow PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Mar Wed 14, 2018 11:45 pm 
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Chek out Mr. Calrson's lab:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5UhzILAISQ

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To be a man, Be a non-conformist, Nothing's sacred as the integrity of your own mind.
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 Post subject: Re: Going to buy radio tomorrow PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Mar Fri 16, 2018 1:34 am 
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Location: Tucson, Arizona U.S.A.
Quote:
I am going to be picking up some tools this weekend and if I'm confident enough, I'd like to begin disassembling the General Electric if yall recommend doing that

If "disassembling" means taking it out of the cabinet to see what is in it, go for it. Don't start taking parts out of it though. Replace parts one at a time; that way you don't forget where they go. Having said that, sometimes there are parts buried under other parts and you need to remove one layer to get at the ones underneath. That requires extra care; take photos or make sketches of where everything connects.

Be careful of the speaker; the cone is paper and it's easy to punch a hole in it. You can make a cover for it out of heavy cardboard for protection.

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 Post subject: Re: Going to buy radio tomorrow PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Mar Fri 16, 2018 1:50 am 
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Joined: Feb Mon 19, 2018 11:33 pm
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Location: Lafayette Louisiana
can I clean everything up? I'd like to work on it without all the dirt. I understand I shouldn't clean the tubes due to the print coming off so easily but would it hurt to get it all cleaned up before I work on it?


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 Post subject: Re: Going to buy radio tomorrow PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Mar Fri 16, 2018 2:07 am 
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Yes, you clean it up as well as you can without breaking wires off.
Read up on radio repair - Phil'd Old Radios, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Going to buy radio tomorrow PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Mar Fri 16, 2018 4:07 am 
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dandypanty wrote:
can I clean everything up? I'd like to work on it without all the dirt. I understand I shouldn't clean the tubes due to the print coming off so easily but would it hurt to get it all cleaned up before I work on it?

Clean everything. I usually remove the chassis from the cabinet in the garage, and use my leaf blower on both, although on the chassis from the back, so as not to blast out the speaker paper. Then take them inside for the 409 treatment.
AFA the tubes, get adhesive paper labels, write each tube's number on them, then clean them individually and attach the label onto their base, if the lettering came off.

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 Post subject: Re: Going to buy radio tomorrow PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Mar Fri 16, 2018 7:48 am 
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egg wrote:
You've heard the one about the guy who walks into the music store and asks...
'which piano should I buy to sound like Beethoven'?

No, I haven't. What's the punch line?

DP, you can clean the tubes quite well with just a dry paper towel. If you really need more than that, usually a little puff of moisture from your breath will do the trick. The only exception I've found is if the tubes are gold-colored from tar and nicotine smoke. In that case, I use blue glass cleaner (aka Windex) on the paper towel, and carefully work around the lettering.

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Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with a chainsaw.


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 Post subject: Re: Going to buy radio tomorrow PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Mar Fri 16, 2018 8:07 am 
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Location: Mountains of Mourne. Ireland.
ok, rephrased...
'what kind of Piano will make me play like Beethoven'?

:) Greg.


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 Post subject: Re: Going to buy radio tomorrow PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Mar Fri 16, 2018 2:20 pm 
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egg wrote:
ok, rephrased...
'what kind of Piano will make me play like Beethoven'?

:) Greg.

I think greg's trying to tell you its not the PIANO its the PIANIAST...or as my dad used to say "its not the putter its the puttee..."


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 Post subject: Re: Going to buy radio tomorrow PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Mar Fri 16, 2018 2:36 pm 
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Ah, I see:

“To play a wrong note is insignificant; to play without passion is inexcusable.”


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 Post subject: Re: Going to buy radio tomorrow PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Mar Fri 16, 2018 2:52 pm 
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Joined: Feb Wed 07, 2018 6:52 pm
Posts: 550
Location: Stone Mountain, GA
Physically, restoration electrically of radios and TV's are similar. Replace bad parts, those out of tolerance; clean up chassis and switches and pots.

Starting on a radio will give you the basics. Usually they come right up with new caps. Alignment needs an RF generator and a meter.

TV's get much more complicated to test and align. Add to that there are high voltages (thousands of volts.) Sync circuits are tricky. Heck, the schematics often have "do not measure" on circuits as they will destroy a scope.

Alignment on a TV gets complicated and is often a multi-pass deal on things like IF's. Look at the alignment instructions and you will see specialized gear like sweep and marker generators and need for accurate RF generators. Not only will you need the gear but also understand how to use them.

Start on the radios, you will learn the basics. Then on the TV, move slowly. You will probably need more test gear and do a lot of reading or watching videos.

On my bench is a Heathkit RF generator, fluke 3.5digit DMM (very basic), Heathkit frequency counter, WaveTEK function generator, home build isolation supply and an HP400E AC voltmeter. I also used to have a Gould analog scope (free). I paid less than $50 for each piece. Yes, lots of better stuff available but I did not want to spend a fortune. Most used test gear is easy to fix (new digital gear is not.)

Keep an eye out for deals on gear. Make sure you can get service info before buying. I made that mistake recently on a PACo RF generator.

On Youtube, look at "Mr Carlsons Lab". He goes into how things work and steps to repair. He has done several radios. His videos are geared to novices. Also, a member here bandersentv has lots of videos on radio, TV and test gear repairs. I bet he has a series of videos on a similar TV as yours.

Oh, don't get discouraged seeing the amount of gear Mr Carlson has (actually refers to himself as a gear hoarder ;) .) He is actually setting up a bench with vintage test gear.

Post your progress on the radios. Lots here to point you in the right direction.

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 Post subject: Re: Going to buy radio tomorrow PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Mar Fri 16, 2018 5:14 pm 
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Joined: Feb Mon 19, 2018 11:33 pm
Posts: 53
Location: Lafayette Louisiana
thank you for all the advice. I will definitely be posting progress and questions. I have so much to learn. I am going tomorrow for a "bench" a multimeter, soldering iron/sucker and I have been speaking with the electrician here at work who has a variac that we use here at the shop I work at so maybe I can get access to it.

Also, I am very curious to test the CRT on my Admiral. I am having trouble finding the exact instruction guide for my model. It's a B&K 440. Does anyone have a guide lying around for that model? I understand the plug on the back of the CRT can be brittle and easily messed up when taking it off. I noticed another youtuber spraying oil in his before removing it. I assume he sprayed it with some kind of cleaner afterward to remove the oil. Do you all suggest I spray oil and let it sit before removing the plug? Also what kind of cleaner would I use afterward to remove and dry the pins before hooking up the tester?


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 Post subject: Re: Going to buy radio tomorrow PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Mar Fri 16, 2018 5:43 pm 
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Joined: May Thu 14, 2015 4:15 pm
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Location: Dallas, TX
dandypanty wrote:
thank you for all the advice. I will definitely be posting progress and questions. I have so much to learn. I am going tomorrow for a "bench" a multimeter, soldering iron/sucker and I have been speaking with the electrician here at work who has a variac that we use here at the shop I work at so maybe I can get access to it.

Also, I am very curious to test the CRT on my Admiral. I am having trouble finding the exact instruction guide for my model. It's a B&K 440. Does anyone have a guide lying around for that model? I understand the plug on the back of the CRT can be brittle and easily messed up when taking it off. I noticed another youtuber spraying oil in his before removing it. I assume he sprayed it with some kind of cleaner afterward to remove the oil. Do you all suggest I spray oil and let it sit before removing the plug? Also what kind of cleaner would I use afterward to remove and dry the pins before hooking up the tester?


I wouldn't spray anything on the socket. Maybe a contact cleaner but I don't think that would help unplugging the CRT. In fact the cleaner might loosen the cement that holds the base on. First try holding the CRT tube base with one hand and the socket with the other hand and see if they will come apart. This way you won't be pulling on the glass to tube base joint. If it won't unplug that way then try prying them apart using a small screwdriver at several places. Usually once it is off the first time it won't stick so much.
Do take things on youtube with a grain of salt, sometimes details get lost, you situation might be different than what is on the video. Check the pins for corrosion and wipe them off. Something like an ink eraser or 600 grit sandpaper might be used if it is stubborn.
You know you should consider a re-cap on the 440. Test equipment is made of the same type components that radios and TV are made of. Also the calibration should be checked.

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It's not the Destination, It's the Journey.


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 Post subject: Re: Going to buy radio tomorrow PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Mar Fri 16, 2018 6:02 pm 
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Joined: May Thu 14, 2015 4:15 pm
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Location: Dallas, TX
I found some manual info here. Just google "B&K 440 manual".
https://www.kevinchant.com/bk.html
I may be missing some of the pages.
Looks like the 440 uses a 6X4 tube. I would not use switch selector positions 4 to 6, without a lot of research and discussion!
I have a B&K 465 CRT tester, a B&K 747 tube tester, a Heathkit TC-2 tube tester, a Heathkit V-7A VTVM, a Simpson 260 VOM, and an EICO 368 sweep generator and I've recapped and restored all of them.

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It's not the Destination, It's the Journey.


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 Post subject: Re: Going to buy radio tomorrow PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Mar Fri 16, 2018 9:45 pm 
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Joined: Feb Mon 19, 2018 11:33 pm
Posts: 53
Location: Lafayette Louisiana
sheesh you're right. I was searching "bk 440". The & got me. Thanks for showing me the manuals. I have them downloaded and I think just to do something other than reading, I'd like to hook it up this weekend. I cut the wires to the speaker because I figured I'd probably replace them but I'm pretty sure some of you said the TV won't do anything unless those wires are connected. I'm assuming they don't need to be connected just to test the CRT correct?


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 Post subject: Re: Going to buy radio tomorrow PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Mar Fri 16, 2018 10:01 pm 
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Location: Haledon, NJ, usa
ronnyradio wrote:
egg wrote:
ok, rephrased...
'what kind of Piano will make me play like Beethoven'?

:) Greg.

I think greg's trying to tell you its not the PIANO its the PIANIAST...or as my dad used to say "its not the putter its the puttee..."

A tourist in NYC asks a local guy on the street: "How do I get to Carnegie Hall?"
The guy replies... "practice practice practice"

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To be a man, Be a non-conformist, Nothing's sacred as the integrity of your own mind.
-Emerson


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 Post subject: Re: Going to buy radio tomorrow PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Mar Fri 16, 2018 11:59 pm 
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Posts: 1844
Location: Dallas, TX
dandypanty wrote:
sheesh you're right. I was searching "bk 440". The & got me. Thanks for showing me the manuals. I have them downloaded and I think just to do something other than reading, I'd like to hook it up this weekend. I cut the wires to the speaker because I figured I'd probably replace them but I'm pretty sure some of you said the TV won't do anything unless those wires are connected. I'm assuming they don't need to be connected just to test the CRT correct?


Who told you to cut wires? I think the speaker wires are connected to a plug. You could have just unplug that, but that does the same thing as removing the 5U4G rectifier tube, stopping the B+ from developing.

The rest of the TV will not effect the CRT tester.
Which CRT is in the TV?
There are only two capacitors in the 440 that could be replaced. Looks like there isn't any calibration you can do on that tester. You should measure the resistors however and replace any out of tolerance, they can effect the accuracy. I think the 6X4 tube is only used in the cut-off test and the so called repair functions. BTW when you do get to the emission test, many times a tube will take some time to "wake up", so you can leave the test on for up to a half hour.

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It's not the Destination, It's the Journey.


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 Post subject: Re: Going to buy radio tomorrow PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Mar Sat 17, 2018 12:36 am 
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Posts: 389
If your going to cook the tube (wake it up) with the tester for an extended period, you might want to remove the cover/back of your crt tester so the transformer can cool while cooking and you can periodically check it for overheating. If the transformer does not overheat your good to go.

I've burnt up a couple of old CRT tester transformers while cooking CRTs during my early days. J

ust a little prevention.


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 Post subject: Re: Going to buy radio tomorrow PLEASE HELP!
PostPosted: Mar Sat 17, 2018 1:53 am 
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Joined: Feb Mon 19, 2018 11:33 pm
Posts: 53
Location: Lafayette Louisiana
who told me to cut the wires? uhh yeah about that... See what happened was.. I just looked at them and they look and feel terrible. I thought, "well those are trash.." so I just cut them to remove the chassis without removing the speaker. I didn't want to remove the speaker yet to avoid tearing it up. I don't really have a safe place to store it yet but I'm getting a cabinet for my project this weekend at Lowes so I will be removing the speaker to finish the cabinet. I guess I shouldn't have done that??

I think I'm going to try the CRT test this weekend. I don't know what kind of CRT it is but I know it's in a 1953 Admiral model 221DX16A. There may be some kind of writing on the CRT that I can identify the type. If I'm not 100% on something I'm not going to do it and I'll just post photos and questions regarding my issue. I will practice using the multimeter on the B&K 440 resistors before I use it. I think I can manage that. I have a lot to learn before replacing anything but I'm ready to get my hands at least a LITTLE dirty. I have spent about 30 hours this week reading and watching youtube videos. I feel like it was a good first week of kindergarten.


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