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 Post subject: Mullard film about UK 1950's CRT manufacture
PostPosted: Aug Wed 18, 2021 7:02 am 
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Joined: Apr Thu 11, 2019 11:35 am
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Not seen this before.
https://youtu.be/GsKZkKTflVA


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 Post subject: Re: Mullard film about UK 1950's CRT manufacture
PostPosted: Aug Wed 18, 2021 2:54 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 16, 2020 12:29 am
Posts: 1573
Now you know why CRT's are a totally non renewable resource and why you cannot make them or repair them at home.

Once the manufacturing tooling and skill base is gone, the technology is lost forever, move over Bronze Age, you are not the only lost art.

The ETF is attempting a tube rebuilding plant, but making them from scratch is a whole other story.

And if TV CRT's were not difficult enough, high precision scope CRT's, such as those used in Tek scopes such as the 2465 series and others, were masterpieces of Electron Optics and were the culmination of decades of CRT development by Tek. I fear the World will never see anything like these again. Flat panels, many a time poorer, but cheaper and more compact, sealed the fate of the CRT.

I attempted a home re-gun and a re-screen of a 12LP4 crt, about 20 years ago and failed dismally. Every remaining CRT in the world needs to be protected and cherished at this point.


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 Post subject: Re: Mullard film about UK 1950's CRT manufacture
PostPosted: Aug Wed 18, 2021 8:58 pm 
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Watched it myself last night. Excellent film. I do wish that the Computer History Archives would resist the urge to "clean up" some of the archival content they supply. I'm grateful to be able to watch this stuff, but would rather watch it un-edited from SMPTE count-down at the head to open-gate at the end, much like Periscope Films.


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 Post subject: Re: Mullard film about UK 1950's CRT manufacture
PostPosted: Aug Thu 19, 2021 11:50 am 
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Joined: May Sun 07, 2017 11:35 am
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Location: Belrose, NSW, Australia
The tube they are making is an MW43-64.

17", 70 degree, Mag focus, non-aluminised screen, ion trap.

Attachment:
MW43-64.pdf [805.65 KiB]
Downloaded 24 times


This Philips datasheet has a VERY good description of how to set up an ion trap. In 3 languages!

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 Post subject: Re: Mullard film about UK 1950's CRT manufacture
PostPosted: Aug Fri 20, 2021 2:43 am 
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Joined: Mar Tue 03, 2009 11:12 pm
Posts: 2009
Location: Great Bend KS
I bet that had to be a hot factory to work in! All those ovens and furnaces and burners and equipment putting out the heat.


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 Post subject: Re: Mullard film about UK 1950's CRT manufacture
PostPosted: Aug Fri 20, 2021 2:51 pm 
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Location: Fernandina Beach, FL
SteveT wrote:
I bet that had to be a hot factory to work in! All those ovens and furnaces and burners and equipment putting out the heat.

For sure, Steve. Decades ago, just about any factory was hot and stinky.

I did enjoy watching the video. Thanks for the link, Mr. Hoover.

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 Post subject: Re: Mullard film about UK 1950's CRT manufacture
PostPosted: Aug Thu 26, 2021 4:17 am 
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Joined: Apr Sun 08, 2007 6:47 am
Posts: 4988
Location: British Columbia
ACORNVALVE wrote:
Now you know why CRT's are a totally non renewable resource and why you cannot make them or repair them at home.

Once the manufacturing tooling and skill base is gone, the technology is lost forever, move over Bronze Age, you are not the only lost art.

The ETF is attempting a tube rebuilding plant, but making them from scratch is a whole other story.

And if TV CRT's were not difficult enough, high precision scope CRT's, such as those used in Tek scopes such as the 2465 series and others, were masterpieces of Electron Optics and were the culmination of decades of CRT development by Tek. I fear the World will never see anything like these again. Flat panels, many a time poorer, but cheaper and more compact, sealed the fate of the CRT.

I attempted a home re-gun and a re-screen of a 12LP4 crt, about 20 years ago and failed dismally. Every remaining CRT in the world needs to be protected and cherished at this point.


I don't know if they are still being manufactured there, but rebuilding is still going on in the former USSR, or at least Russia. They were still making CRT equipped TVs as late as five years ago in some countries as they already had the tooling, and a domestic market that didn't care about the newest, and shiniest, when they couldn't afford either.
There seems to be a resurgence in audio tube manufacturing, several outfits are marketing, if not manufacturing, 2A3s and the like, though I cannot vouch for quality.
Regards
Arran


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 Post subject: Re: Mullard film about UK 1950's CRT manufacture
PostPosted: Aug Thu 26, 2021 12:46 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 16, 2020 12:29 am
Posts: 1573
Arran wrote:
ACORNVALVE wrote:

I don't know if they are still being manufactured there, but rebuilding is still going on in the former USSR, or at least Russia. They were still making CRT equipped TVs as late as five years ago in some countries as they already had the tooling, and a domestic market that didn't care about the newest, and shiniest, when they couldn't afford either.
There seems to be a resurgence in audio tube manufacturing, several outfits are marketing, if not manufacturing, 2A3s and the like, though I cannot vouch for quality.
Regards
Arran


Arran,

Wishful thinking.

But the good news is that many tubes are being re-manufactured, this is driven by the audiophile industry, so you can get EL34's, 6L6's and other audio bottles, like 2A3's all re-made from Russian factories like Svetlana (which is great), but nobody, as far as I know, is making replica TV CRT's, or for that matter re-gunning old ones. The last CRT re-gunning factory was in France and they closed nearly a decade ago. If there was a functional CRT plant anywhere on Earth, it might actually be worth a fortune now, as it could offer a service to re-build CRT's for the ever expanding vintage TV community. I know of no such service, if it existed I would be a patron. If you find such an enterprise, please send me their contact details and I would be happy to stand corrected.


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 Post subject: Re: Mullard film about UK 1950's CRT manufacture
PostPosted: Aug Thu 26, 2021 7:52 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 29
Location: Paris, France
Hi to all,

I've been in electronics since age 7, 61 years now. With a particular attraction to anything Television which landed me a full career with Broadcast TV equipment manufacturers.
Also been a longtime member of the ETF, 6 visits since 2000.

Anyway, after acquiring a 42" Plasma in 1999, i felt the writing was on the wall for CRT technology.
To make a long story short, i got in touch with RACS of France, one of the last industrial CRT rebuilders. At the time, they were rebuilding nearly 3000 monochrome CRTs used as station platform displays for the French SNCF national railroad. Also military radar tubes & cockpit avionics displays.

As very many French companies, their understanding of English was very poor so they didn't prospect markets outside of French speaking territories. I offered my free help to act as PR representative for the UK & US territories. This started circa 2007. Over the years, CRTs were rebuilt for mainly UK collectors & some in the US. CRTs ranged from Pre-War Pyrex tubes (very difficult) to 1970s Delta color tubes.

One of a kind guns were dismantled, filaments & cathodes replaced then reassembled.
They even rebuilt the 3 guns in the mythical 15GP22, the RCA 1954 12" CRT, no mean feat!

Circa 2013, one of the two brothers owning the plant had health problems & wanted out. In addition, business was dwindling and a major rain-induced flood damaged equipment, so the company decided to shut down.

Knowing this was soon going to become a lost art, i decided to help a young, highly interested TV restorer (Miniman82 on VK) to come to RACS, crash-course learn the processes and document the entire endeavour. You can see a video and the report below.
His project was to manage CRT rebuilding at the ETF after retiring at 37 from a full US Military career, sometime in 2020/2021.

As things have turned out, The ETF will not offer CRT rebuilding services for various reasons and Miniman82 has set up a full rebuild lab at his home premises.

One final word: when RACS closed, i struck a deal with them to purchase at a very low price some essential gear: a CRT re-screening line, aluminum evaporators, spot-welders, vacuum pumps and a sizeable inventory of NOS B&W and color guns, spare neck tubes, filaments, cathodes, P4 phosphor and more stuff i don't remember. ETF members funded a standard cargo container and all this equipment is now in storage at the ETF.
It would need a thorough checkover, oiling, changing gaskets,... but is essentially fully usable.
Motorized gear would need motor changes to US 120VAC/single phase as it was used in France on 380V 3 phase.

So that's the story. I had great fun doing it, learned a lot and met some interesting people along the way.

ETF CRT rebuilding documents:
http://www.earlytelevision.org/crt_rebuild.html

Nick W's 24 page report on CRT rebuilding at RACS (France)
http://www.earlytelevision.org/pdf/crt_ ... lliams.pdf

Nick W. at RACS, 1h35min:
https://youtu.be/byCeMKzPJgM

Tip: If you're really crazy about the art of CRT rebuilding, be sure to read the RACS Notebook. It sums up 30 years and 2 generations of practical "cookbook" experience of a CRT rebuilder's day to day operations. RACs founder was an ex-Corning Glass top exec and his two sons carried on the business. Caution! big file (29Mb) and in French:

http://www.earlytelevision.org/pdf/racs_notebook.pdf

Dave S. who does the monthly ETF Zoom video meetings edited the 5 or 6 hours of video recording into segments describing each step of the rebuild process. It's on YT somewhere.
Everything was shot in PAL HD which was quite a consumer video novelty back in 2013.

Best Regards
jhalphen
Paris/France


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 Post subject: Re: Mullard film about UK 1950's CRT manufacture
PostPosted: Aug Fri 27, 2021 2:53 am 
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Joined: May Thu 14, 2015 4:15 pm
Posts: 3519
Location: Dallas, TX
I watched the first half of the ETF Zoom meeting on YouTube last night.
One surprising thing that was said was that they have discovered that there is someone in Germany is rebuilding CRTs. (No details were given.)
Possibly someone doing what Nick plans to do, small operation.
I've been following the developments in the ETF efforts to rebuild CRTs for many years.
ETF has the equipment and Nick has his own. At one time the plan was for Nick to re-locate to Ohio and work at the museum but that did not turn out that way.
Nick is in Maryland and is currently involved in building an oven large enough to hold a 30 inch CRT.
Nick is miniman82.
At this time Nick (and any effort at the ETF Museum) have no plans to re-phosphor B/W tubes.
I think that re-phosphoring would be a good addition since there are early tubes that have burnt screens due to ion trap failures (misadjustments, etc.). Re-phosphoring color tubes is essentially impossible.
One elephant in the room is how much the service will cost.

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It's not the Destination, It's the Journey.


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 Post subject: Re: Mullard film about UK 1950's CRT manufacture
PostPosted: Aug Sun 29, 2021 2:00 am 
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Location: Pewaukee, WI
There's a part of me that wishes I lived closer to the ETF. If I lived within a couple hours drive (instead of over 8 hours drive) I'd probably have volunteered to learn/perform rebuilding for them. I'm interested in the process and seeing it available to the collecting community again, but the logistics of doing that when I'm in Milwaukee and they are in Columbus are too much of a reach.


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 Post subject: Re: Mullard film about UK 1950's CRT manufacture
PostPosted: Aug Sun 29, 2021 3:45 pm 
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Joined: May Thu 14, 2015 4:15 pm
Posts: 3519
Location: Dallas, TX
Yes, I've heard other people say essentially the same thing. I'd like to help but I live too far away.
I also think that when it comes down to brass tacks that it would take more time and effort that it might
seem on the surface.

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It's not the Destination, It's the Journey.


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 Post subject: Re: Mullard film about UK 1950's CRT manufacture
PostPosted: Aug Mon 30, 2021 11:29 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 29
Location: Paris, France
Hi to all,
@Notimetolooz : CRT rebuilding

Maybe your are referring to this chap in Poland (not Germany) who posted this on VK in Nov 2020:
http://www.videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=273434

I PM'ed the guy, one reply, then silence. Too busy ? not interested ?

Re-Phosphoring:
All i can say is that from the many UK tubes RACS rebuilt, re-phosphoring was essential as most tubes had ugly ion-burn marks and/or Pre-War phosphors seriously degraded over 3/4th of a century.

The re-screening gear is at the ETF, i just wish someone/somewhere/sometime might just use it before it's too late...

Best Regards
jhalphen
Paris/France


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