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 Post subject: Westinghouse H-693P8 project...
PostPosted: Oct Fri 09, 2015 1:54 am 
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Joined: Oct Mon 26, 2009 10:02 pm
Posts: 7095
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Hello All,

Just bought one of these and it's on the way---see Ebay pic below... Had read about one quite awhile back and that it was a good performer. This one supposedly only has some "fuzz" when turned on according to seller...

After purchase, viewed Matt's YouTube video and was surprised on how small they are---thought it was a good size coat-pocket set from pics... Unless Matt has huge hands !

Has previous owner's SSN engraved on back, so looked it up and found that he passed away in 2004. Will probably do a bit more research when time permits... From the "stamp" on outer case, looks like it may have been presented by the Teamsters union...

More to follow...

John


Attachments:
arf 693p8.jpg
arf 693p8.jpg [ 131.21 KiB | Viewed 3076 times ]


Last edited by xrhonda91 on Oct Mon 12, 2015 1:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Westinghouse H-693P8 project enroute...
PostPosted: Oct Fri 09, 2015 2:16 pm 
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John,

This set is the exact same size as Westinghouse's previous coat-pocket sets, and in fact the back covers are actually interchangeable! (I guess that saved them money on new molds).

Are you planning on removing the SSN from the back cover? That (and the fact that I already have a pink one) kept me from bidding on that set.

Matt


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 Post subject: Re: Westinghouse H-693P8 project enroute...
PostPosted: Oct Fri 09, 2015 3:15 pm 
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Joined: Oct Mon 26, 2009 10:02 pm
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Location: Indianapolis, IN
Hello Matt,

I've seen pics of the other Westinghouse "coat pocket" sets, but not "in person" or next to other familiar radios, so wasn't aware of actual size until I saw your video. And have noticed that other models shared same basic case style...

The SSN appears engraved, so no easy task to remove---will probably very carefully trim off the raised edges of plastic around characters and polish. At least it's on the back ! After sharpening pic before posting, noticed that there may be a chip out of tuning knob that wasn't mentioned (or easily discerned from slightly "fuzzy" pic)---if I'd known that, I wouldn't have bid at all...

How's the performance away from noise sources ?

John


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 Post subject: Re: Westinghouse H-693P8 project enroute...
PostPosted: Oct Fri 09, 2015 8:36 pm 
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John - Times sure have changed as years ago it was common to etch your Social Security number or driver's license ID on one's valuables. I'm sure you'll be able to restore the Westinghouse H-693P8 to a high order, based on your success on previous projects. - Mark


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 Post subject: Re: Westinghouse H-693P8 project enroute...
PostPosted: Oct Fri 09, 2015 9:06 pm 
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Hey John,
All about the same size and performance. Nothing to scream about.


Attachments:
Westinghouse  Transistor sets.jpg
Westinghouse Transistor sets.jpg [ 71.01 KiB | Viewed 2991 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Westinghouse H-693P8 project enroute...
PostPosted: Oct Sat 10, 2015 4:40 am 
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fifties wrote:
Hey John,
All about the same size and performance. Nothing to scream about.


I would agree with Fifties, I just fired my set up and it looks better than it works; it picks up about as many stations as a good 6 transistor set does. Also, the lack of gear reduction tuning makes tuning this set difficult.

-Matt


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 Post subject: Re: Westinghouse H-693P8 project...
PostPosted: Oct Mon 12, 2015 1:53 am 
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Joined: Oct Mon 26, 2009 10:02 pm
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Location: Indianapolis, IN
Thanks Guys !

The radio arrived yesterday and got it today when home from trip... Man, it is a little bugger---about half the size I expected !

But it's a "purty" little thing and looks like it'll clean up well other than the engraved SSN... The tuning knob is fine---no chip, but both it and volume knob have that "acetate fungus" which will have to be removed... A couple slight dents in metal portion of speaker grille...

Turns on and only has very low level "hiss"---electrolytic replacement time... Guess with Matt & Richard's performance reports, can't expect much when complete---but it'll display nice and won't take up much room...

John


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 Post subject: Re: Westinghouse H-693P8 project...
PostPosted: Oct Mon 12, 2015 10:27 am 
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In photo above, the ivory one was my first transistor. Think it was a year older than the other 2. I wouldn't be too quick to poop on the performance. It's a little on the squawky side with that tiny speaker. But I used to DX hundreds of miles or more in bed with the earphone when I was 'supposed' to be sleeping. Wish I still had the list. There was however, less interference in 1958 than now.

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 Post subject: Re: Westinghouse H-693P8 project...
PostPosted: Oct Mon 12, 2015 8:45 pm 
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arbilab wrote:
In photo above, the ivory one was my first transistor.

If you are referring to the pic I posted, the center one isn't Ivory, it's yellow. Hardest color to find on portable radios.

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 Post subject: Re: Westinghouse H-693P8 project...
PostPosted: Oct Tue 13, 2015 2:54 am 
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Location: Indianapolis, IN
Thanks for your input Arbilab---hopefully this one will be decent when complete...

This set has only two electrolytics (40 uF) and replaced them tonight. The service info is in the 1959 Beitmans. Since I have only radial leaded caps, I put the negative lead of C507 into same ground hole as C511 which was nearby. Turned radio on and only received our strongest local at high end of band. It squealed/oscillated at center band. Audio was distorted and not very loud at max... Saw that one of the P-P output transistors had slight collector voltage when it should be 0V. You have to remove copper speaker sub-chassis for access to two of the IF transformers. Am concerned there is a bad internal cap in one or more of the IF transformers---anyone see that with these sets ??? Oh boy...

Hope this set will be worth the needed effort to repair !

John


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 Post subject: Re: Westinghouse H-693P8 project...
PostPosted: Oct Tue 13, 2015 10:49 am 
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It's been maybe 10 years or so since I worked on the models of these that I have, but IIRC there's never been any problem with the IF internal caps on Transistor radios, unlike the situation with tube sets. The normal 6 or 9 volts they use just aren't high enough to cause damage.

Adjust the IF's and antenna gang screw on the tuner, and verify Transistor element voltages. Also make sure the copper traces on the board are all intact, that the board isn't cracked, and all discrete wiring, esp from the antenna coil, is connected to the board.

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 Post subject: Re: Westinghouse H-693P8 project...
PostPosted: Oct Wed 14, 2015 2:21 am 
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Location: Indianapolis, IN
Thanks Richard---I've had several transistor sets which did have failed internal IFT caps, probably caused by deteriorated connection of clips on the S-M wafer... Was able to repair with parallel external disk caps.

Did find that the antenna trimmer on tuner was very touchy and a little tweaking brought back "normal" reception. Think there was some debris on oscillator gang plates as mid-band squealing disappeared after several tuning "cycles". The 3rd IFT is the only one accessible with speaker sub-chassis in place, but it seemed dead-on when adjusted---reception cut in & out during during process and think that this one may have an intermittent internal cap connection, though it was fine after tool removed. Flexing PCB made no difference, but you could hear slight sound in speaker while tapping can...

The interesting part is the audio problem---not a lot of volume at max and was distorted. Got into it deeper tonight, pulled both transistors in P-P output stage after seeing resistance differences and found that one has a 120 ohm E-C short. These are both Texas Instrument parts with same number stamped on them, but are slightly different physically---the one that failed had a 4th lead towards collector which had been clipped off (the other didn't have this). Thought it was a shield, but it turned out to be connected directly to the base lead, not the case---have never seen anything like this before ! Was Westinghouse using "fallout" transistors from TI back in 1958 ??? And noticed on Westinghouse service info in Betimans that there are no transistor P/N's on schematic ! Hmmm... Now need to salvage a matched pair from a junk amplifier or radio to replace and hopefully get audio back in shape. Have also desoldered the speaker sub-chassis tabs so it can be removed and other IFT's adjusted...

Plan to get the cleaning/polishing done this week. There are some serious scuffs on sides which I hope will polish out.

Am also curious about the gold embossed Teamsters emblem on top of carrying case and since I've found the original owner's name, hope to locate a family member to give some history of this neat little set...

Stay tuned...
John


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 Post subject: Re: Westinghouse H-693P8 project...
PostPosted: Oct Wed 14, 2015 8:12 am 
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Hey John,

I seriously doubt that Westinghouse or any other American or Japanese manufacturer was using fallout Transistors in 1958. That radio had to have cost an easy 50 bucks back then, so the performance had to be competitive.

According to SAMs, the output Transistors are 1003(6,7, 8, or 9), RCA 2N408, Raytheon 2N632, or Sylvania 2N270, matched PNPs.

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 Post subject: Re: Westinghouse H-693P8 project...
PostPosted: Oct Thu 15, 2015 2:47 am 
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Joined: Oct Mon 26, 2009 10:02 pm
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Location: Indianapolis, IN
Thanks for the info, Richard---especially the recommended replacement transistor #'s which I forgot to ask about... Think I saw where this radio sold for $54.95 back then. Still can't believe these were top-grade transistors after what I found with that audio output pair ! There is also one Sylvania & one Westinghouse branded transistor in this set...

Pulled a matched set of 2SB33 PNP germanium transistors from an old tape recorder amplifier PCB I had in junkbox and installed tonight---sound quality now good, but not as loud as I thought it would be. Tuned into Patsy Cline singing "I Fall to Pieces" on WSM 650 after repair---pretty neat... Performance pretty good now that audio is clean and you can hear clearly. Pretty sure that 3rd IFT has bad internal cap connection as you can knock down signal level intermittently by tapping can---all solder connections & PCB traces are fine. The tuning cap issue with mid-band oscillation/squealing came back and occurs intermittently---reception in that range is lost when it does. Need to clean between plates and check if any are bent.

The sides of case were pretty badly scuffed near bottom, so tried aggressive rubbing with Q-tip & Novus-2---areas did shine up, but there are some deep abrasions which can't be removed...

Below are pics of the original P-P output transistors---notice circled lead stub on defective unit and the way that assemblers at Westinghouse bent the leads back double to hold them securely in PCB before soldering.

John


Attachments:
arf 693 P-P output trns.jpg
arf 693 P-P output trns.jpg [ 153.55 KiB | Viewed 2812 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Westinghouse H-693P8 project...
PostPosted: Oct Thu 15, 2015 4:19 am 
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Location: Vincennes Indiana
It'd be interesting to see inside that shorted transistor, hint hint.


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 Post subject: Re: Westinghouse H-693P8 project...
PostPosted: Oct Fri 16, 2015 7:11 am 
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Joined: Oct Mon 26, 2009 10:02 pm
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Location: Indianapolis, IN
db gain---yes, it would, but I keep all original parts for future owner... Noticed one of the IF transistors had same lead stub---need to look at the rest of the TI units...

Spent several hours on this tonight---couldn't find any short on tuning cap with meter, so need to look deeper for cause of intermittent mid-band oscillation. Still think the variable cap is at fault... And need to pin down 3rd IFT problem...

Probably took over two hours just to clean knobs---the volume knob was crusted in that white "acetate fungus" and had to scrape it off with fingernails under running water, then the the grooves on edge under a magnifier. Finished with stubby toothbrush & water. Was surprised how well it turned out with the painted "OFF" still in nice shape & knob itself still shiny & clear... The tuning knob took the longest since I had to go over it several times with fingernails to get into slots and inner grooves around brass insert...

Hope to get it done today & more pics posted...
John


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 Post subject: Re: Westinghouse H-693P8 project...
PostPosted: Oct Fri 16, 2015 9:17 pm 
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Location: Indianapolis, IN
Got 'er done today !

Thoroughly cleaned & polished case this morning. Took a lot of effort with Novus-2 to get it "decent" after the dulling from the years of handling & use... Carefully worked out minor dents in aluminum grille section...

Noticed that when I removed the speaker sub-chassis & connected grounds with test leads for "alignment", radio performance was much better and sound louder---also, the intermittent mid-band oscillation was gone ! Saw that a couple transistors were touching the speaker frame including the mixer, so carefully repositioned them (which corrected that & performance issues).
Wonder how many of these left the factory like this ? I'd suggest that everyone who has one of these with mediocre performance should take a look !

Both 1st & 3rd IF transiformers were intermittent and had signal loss while adjusting or when tapped---resoldered all pins & kept iron tip in place a couple extra seconds to hopefully reflow internal connections. All now seemed solid and they peaked well (factory settings nearly right on as they were). Even though the 2nd IFT seemed okay, resoldered it in same fashion also as a preventative measure...

Reinstalled sub-chassis, soldered all the "legs", and repaired cut ground strap to tuning cap---only one leg had been soldered from factory...

Attached a standard 9V battery clip leaving original (+) lead intact & covered with heatshrink...

Reassembled, re-peaked antenna trimmer and WOW, what performance ! This radio now does as well as some of my tuned-RF amp equipped sets with excellent selectivity. Matt is absolutely right about this radio needing vernier tuning as it is very difficult to tune with its small knob & sharp selectivity. Was listening to my favorite low-power distant station which only the best receive well enough to enjoy... Of course the sound is a bit "tinny" with the small speaker, but nice & clean with the new P-P output transistors---and much louder after eliminating those transistor case to chassis "contacts" !

Below is first "installment" of pics. Please see the following post for remainder...

John


Attachments:
ARF 693 CMP PRTS OUT.jpg
ARF 693 CMP PRTS OUT.jpg [ 162.14 KiB | Viewed 2761 times ]
ARF 693 CMP PRTS IN.jpg
ARF 693 CMP PRTS IN.jpg [ 233.73 KiB | Viewed 2761 times ]
ARF 693 BAT CON MOD.jpg
ARF 693 BAT CON MOD.jpg [ 196.98 KiB | Viewed 2761 times ]
ARF 693 CHS BOT.jpg
ARF 693 CHS BOT.jpg [ 225.68 KiB | Viewed 2761 times ]
ARF 693 CHS EDGE.jpg
ARF 693 CHS EDGE.jpg [ 138.72 KiB | Viewed 2761 times ]
ARF 693 CHS TOP.jpg
ARF 693 CHS TOP.jpg [ 221.89 KiB | Viewed 2761 times ]
ARF 693 CHS APRT.jpg
ARF 693 CHS APRT.jpg [ 218.18 KiB | Viewed 2761 times ]
ARF 693 ORG CAPS.jpg
ARF 693 ORG CAPS.jpg [ 142.3 KiB | Viewed 2761 times ]


Last edited by xrhonda91 on Oct Fri 16, 2015 9:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Westinghouse H-693P8 project...
PostPosted: Oct Fri 16, 2015 9:23 pm 
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Location: Indianapolis, IN
Here are remainder of project pics---please see previous post for first "group"...

The last pic is to show how small this set is alongside a familiar Royal 500 & Sony TR-84...

John


Attachments:
ARF 693 SIZE COMP.jpg
ARF 693 SIZE COMP.jpg [ 244.86 KiB | Viewed 2760 times ]
ARF 693 TEAMSTERS.jpg
ARF 693 TEAMSTERS.jpg [ 204.55 KiB | Viewed 2760 times ]
ARF 693 CMP FRT.jpg
ARF 693 CMP FRT.jpg [ 225.27 KiB | Viewed 2760 times ]
ARF 693 CMP FRT RT.jpg
ARF 693 CMP FRT RT.jpg [ 217.31 KiB | Viewed 2760 times ]
ARF 693 LFT TOP FRT.jpg
ARF 693 LFT TOP FRT.jpg [ 156.71 KiB | Viewed 2760 times ]
ARF 693 CMP BK.jpg
ARF 693 CMP BK.jpg [ 173.6 KiB | Viewed 2760 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Westinghouse H-693P8 project...
PostPosted: Oct Sat 17, 2015 1:11 am 
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Real nice work John, thanks for taking the time to document your progress.
I guess you considered filling in (dulling down) the SSN with shoe polish/wax crayon or the likes?

The size comparison shot at the end is a good call :)

Greg


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 Post subject: Re: Westinghouse H-693P8 project...
PostPosted: Oct Sat 17, 2015 3:26 am 
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Joined: Oct Mon 26, 2009 10:02 pm
Posts: 7095
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Thanks much, Greg !

This one was a "true" project with it's electronic issues, but well worth the effort as it now works as well as it looks (except for lack of vernier tuning)! Need to find needle & syringe in my "junk" to dispense small amount of synthetic lube to bottom bearing of tuning cap to hopefully loosen it up---it is really difficult to tune properly as tight as it is with its sharp selectivity...

I didn't even think of filling in the SSN as it's on the back cover and the engraving is so deep. Did scrape the rough edges the best I could with fingernail before polishing. Thought that careful use of a heat-gun might tone it down a bit, but am afraid of damaging the plastic. It does add "character" though, and I've already found names of original owner's kids and am thinking of contacting them to see if they remember how he received it from the Teamsters.

I was really surprised how small it was and thought that others might like to see it next to more familiar sets so they'd know... Also hope that the factory issues found which greatly affected performance will help others who have these get their sets in top shape.

John


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