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 Post subject: Re: Acquired ugly HQ 180
PostPosted: Nov Thu 19, 2020 9:02 am 
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Joined: Mar Tue 10, 2020 5:11 am
Posts: 445
Location: Mission Viejo, CA
I had to try 4 before I found a 6C4 that would oscillate across all bands when I refurbished my National NC-98. Three wouldn't oscillate at the bottom of band 3.

SteveH


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 Post subject: Re: Acquired ugly HQ 180
PostPosted: Nov Thu 19, 2020 11:05 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 388
Location: Gulfport, MS
SteveH wrote:
I had to try 4 before I found a 6C4 that would oscillate across all bands when I refurbished my National NC-98. Three wouldn't oscillate at the bottom of band 3.

SteveH


Eliminate all the hassle of trying to find "good" working 6C4's. Forget the 6100 and 6C4WA's too. Replace it with a 6135 computer rated tube and forget it. Been using them for years. Works on all bands all the time.

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Gulfport, MS.
Dx'ing Since '57


Last edited by Les Locklear on Nov Thu 19, 2020 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Acquired ugly HQ 180
PostPosted: Nov Thu 19, 2020 2:22 pm 
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Joined: Jan Tue 07, 2020 1:41 am
Posts: 3567
Location: Fenton, MI 48430
I have a new Ken Rad Mil Spec 6C4 if interested. $5.

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 Post subject: Re: Acquired ugly HQ 180
PostPosted: Nov Thu 19, 2020 4:14 pm 
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Location: N. Vancouver B.C. Canada
Thanks for the suggestions. I'm going to try and get some of the 6135's that Les suggested. I wouldn't be surprised if there is more going on than just the tube. Going to start checking voltages.

thanks,
Sandy


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 Post subject: Re: Acquired ugly HQ 180
PostPosted: Nov Fri 20, 2020 12:04 am 
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Joined: Jul Sun 21, 2019 3:32 pm
Posts: 320
Location: Upstate NY by the big lake!
When you get around to aligning it, you might want to watch the videos by K7pp (Pete) He has several videos I have found useful. FYI...the manuals are pretty bad, missing many important steps like increasing the RF until you can get the 3035 signal on the meter...

I had to "phone a friend" to finally find the signal and "walk it in" I'm still fighting with the dial accuracy....

Mike


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 Post subject: Re: Acquired ugly HQ 180
PostPosted: Nov Fri 20, 2020 10:37 pm 
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Location: N. Vancouver B.C. Canada
Found a couple more 6C4's. That makes 5 I've tried so far with no luck on the top 2 bands. Although I've done it already I'm going to go back and clean the band switch again. Still have intermittent operation of the "s" meter not sure if that could be tied into the dead band problem. Have swapped out most of the other tubes as well with no change and sockets have been cleaned.

Any further suggestions appreciated.

thanks,
Sandy


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 Post subject: Re: Acquired ugly HQ 180
PostPosted: Nov Fri 20, 2020 11:44 pm 
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Posts: 2977
Location: N. Vancouver B.C. Canada
Progress.

I replaced v18 6BA6 which is listed as "Gate" and I now have signals on all bands. I understand that this tube is involved in the signal path for the top 2 bands. Beyond that things start to get fuzzy. If someone could explain to me (as simply as possible, remember your audience) what the actual function is I would be grateful.

many thanks,
Sandy


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 Post subject: Re: Acquired ugly HQ 180
PostPosted: Nov Tue 24, 2020 12:41 am 
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Location: N. Vancouver B.C. Canada
I'm now looking at the filter cap can. I've always mounted replacements on a terminal strip underneath on other receivers. I've read a couple of comments that say there isn't much room to do this with the HQ180. When I look at it doesn't look too bad to me but I am looking at possibly restuffing the can. I also remember
seeing at least one posting where someone had used a piece of perf board mounted over the hole on top of the chassis to mount the caps but I can't seem to find that now.
I would appreciate any thoughts. Particularly if you have done this on an HQ180 but all suggestions gratefully accepted.

thanks,
Sandy


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 Post subject: Re: Acquired ugly HQ 180
PostPosted: Nov Tue 24, 2020 1:02 am 
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Joined: Dec Sun 21, 2014 6:37 am
Posts: 2351
Location: Portland, TN, USA
Sandy,
I mounted mine underneath on my 180A without a problem- and I’m an old guy.

Another trick I came across that I want to try one of these times is to use an octal socket in the old can hole and mount the components using an octal plug or old tube base on the topside with some sort of cover.

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 Post subject: Re: Acquired ugly HQ 180
PostPosted: Nov Tue 24, 2020 2:00 am 
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Location: Costa Mesa, California
I have a way that I like to do those cans;
I first cut off the top off the can at the bulge (or 1/8" up)--while it is still in the radio--using a fine hacksaw blade (no hacksaw).
I take the top with the guts and set it on my wood stove to heat (not too hot) and after a while, the guts can be pulled out with a sturdy pair of needlenose pliers shoved in a ways.
I clean the inside with some water and a screwdriver but leave any black tar that won't easily come out.
I file both the end of the can and the base to clean those a bit and get rid of any uneven edges.
I drill holes from below the chassis up through the base for wires and a ground.
I assemble my capacitors into a bundle that will fit in the can--use heat shrink and make sure none of the positives touch the metal cases--connect negatives into one wire
I use colored wires so I know what capacitor is what wire and feed down through the holes to below the base. Check the can will fit correctly on top.
I mark the wires for where I will strip them and pull it all apart again and strip wires and reassemble a final time.
I solder the capacitor wires to the appropriate existing terminals and the ground wire to one of the tabs or a nearby ground.
I check the circuit to be sure it all works right.
I set the can on top and rotate for best fit.
I take a 3/4" wide piece of aluminum metal duct tape about enough for around the can a little more than once, remove the paper back and carefully wrap the can base right at the chassis surface. Don't worry about wrinkles but do the best you can pulling it tight without tearing. Now take a wooden chopstick and carefully work around the base smoothing out the tape. The wrinkles will almost entirely disappear. You can always go back and start over or add another layer. The trick is to use the wooden stick to smooth it all out.

The whole process is pretty easy and can always be redone if something doesn't work right. If you don't have room for that last capacitor just add below from its terminal to a nearby ground--as the terminals can now be used as connection points because you removed the guts of the can. I have done many capacitors this way and it is cheap and easy and involves no mods--and looks pretty good, too.

Norm


Attachments:
Capacitor can.jpg
Capacitor can.jpg [ 209.09 KiB | Viewed 486 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Acquired ugly HQ 180
PostPosted: Nov Tue 24, 2020 2:41 am 
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Location: N. Vancouver B.C. Canada
Thanks for the responses. Looking at it again it looks doable without too much difficulty. One thing I've noticed from underneath I can't see any of the geometric symbols identifying the connections on the bottom of the can. I'm sure I can figure it out from the schematic (which is really hard to read) but I also think it will make it more likely that I make a mistake. I'm thinking if I pull the old caps out of the can they may not be helpful for identifying which is which.

best regards,
Sandy


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 Post subject: Re: Acquired ugly HQ 180
PostPosted: Nov Tue 24, 2020 3:42 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 3659
Location: Seattle WA US
Sandy-
The symbols identifying the sections of the electrolytic are usually small notches in the slots in the brown insulator that the terminals pass thru. The slot is usually one side of the symbol.
I agree with you, the draftsman made that portion of the schematic almost impossible to read, even with a good scan.
-Chuck


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 Post subject: Re: Acquired ugly HQ 180
PostPosted: Nov Tue 24, 2020 5:22 am 
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Posts: 2977
Location: N. Vancouver B.C. Canada
Thanks Chuck,
There is minor damage to the fiber washer in the bottom of the can and the symbols seem to be lost in the damage. I'm thinking I will have to figure it out with the schematic.

Sandy


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 Post subject: Re: Acquired ugly HQ 180
PostPosted: Nov Tue 24, 2020 5:46 am 
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Posts: 7431
Location: Liberty, Missouri
Sandy said;
Quote:
...I also remember
seeing at least one posting where someone had used a piece of perf board mounted over the hole on top of the chassis to mount the caps but I can't seem to find that now...


I've posted that pic a couple times, and I've done that on a few receivers. It is pretty simple and works quite well.

If you are replacing a twist tab mount cap you have to drill a couple holes. I usually drill holes for #6 machine screws in the slots, that way no "extra" holes are made.

In this instance, the original filter cap was mounted on an insulator, and I just copied the shape onto a piece of Perf board.

Image
ClickTHEPIC

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 Post subject: Re: Acquired ugly HQ 180
PostPosted: Nov Tue 24, 2020 6:54 am 
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Location: N. Vancouver B.C. Canada
Thanks Mike. I'm glad I didn't imagine it. That looks good and I will consider doing mine that way.


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 Post subject: Re: Acquired ugly HQ 180
PostPosted: Nov Tue 24, 2020 8:16 am 
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Joined: Mar Tue 10, 2020 5:11 am
Posts: 445
Location: Mission Viejo, CA
Sandy, remember that just about always, only ONE of the caps in the can will be low-voltage, and that one will be the audio amp's cathode bypass, almost always just 25V. All the other sections in the can will be HV. The cathode bypass cap can be mounted on the audio amp tube socket, saving a couple cubic millimeters of space on Mike's perfboard. You should be able to ID the cathode-bypass cap as the one wired to the nearby audio section. The HV sections will almost always have high-wattage dropping resistors wired to em.

I haven't done a HQ-170 or -180 but I did do a -110C, and the can cap is sitting right there in the open air totally in the clear. For a HQ-129X with the can mounted in a bracket on the side of the bottom of the chassis, it was easy-peasy: I just held three of Sal's 10 mF caps together by hand, then tied them together with lacing cord, soldered em up, and stuffed em back into the original bracket, held tightly shut around the assembly with lacing cord (I dunno why the photo seems to have come out sideways):
Attachment:
File comment: Before.
Filter_Cap-a.jpg
Filter_Cap-a.jpg [ 261.29 KiB | Viewed 464 times ]


Attachment:
File comment: After.
Can_Replacement-a.jpg
Can_Replacement-a.jpg [ 122.02 KiB | Viewed 464 times ]


Just anudder way to do it on a different radio.

SteveH


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 Post subject: Re: Acquired ugly HQ 180
PostPosted: Nov Tue 24, 2020 7:09 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 2977
Location: N. Vancouver B.C. Canada
I mentioned earlier that I hadn't found many hack jobs in this set, but here is one. The power cord has caps from each side of the line to ground. One is a.01 ceramic and the other is obviously not. I plan to go to a polarized cord and replace the caps with safety .01's unless anyone thinks there is a better way.

Sandy


Attachments:
20201124_095236.jpg
20201124_095236.jpg [ 4.19 MiB | Viewed 452 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Acquired ugly HQ 180
PostPosted: Nov Sun 29, 2020 1:46 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 2977
Location: N. Vancouver B.C. Canada
I ordered the decal set from Radiodaze. That should force me into doing something about the cosmetics on this set.

best regards,
Sandy


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 Post subject: Re: Acquired ugly HQ 180
PostPosted: Nov Sun 29, 2020 2:40 am 
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Posts: 2351
Location: Portland, TN, USA
To paraphrase Clint Eastwood, “Go ahead, inspire me.”

Perhaps you can make me feel more guilty than I already do, given how much I like my 180A operationally, that I haven’t done more about her cosmetics.
Attachment:
343F90CC-DE57-4825-B904-F74599811D0B.jpeg
343F90CC-DE57-4825-B904-F74599811D0B.jpeg [ 675.13 KiB | Viewed 357 times ]

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73, de Chuck K4CCW

If talk is cheap, it's because the supply usually exceeds the demand.


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 Post subject: Re: Acquired ugly HQ 180
PostPosted: Dec Fri 04, 2020 7:03 am 
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Posts: 2977
Location: N. Vancouver B.C. Canada
Progress (or lack of) report.
So tonight I replaced the electrolytics. I moved the low voltage one to the base of the 6AQ5 and put a terminal strip underneath to mount the others. I decided to solder the strip to the chassis as I figured the factory did it so why couldn't I? .I knew none of my usual soldering tools would be up to the job so I dug out the old American Beauty and thought it would be easy. Wrong. Even with the big iron it was a real struggle. That's what I get for not wanting to drill a whole in the chassis.
Finally got that done and had to do a lot of digging with a dental pick to identify the markings on the bottom wafer of the can. Maybe it's just me but I struggle with the schematic on this set.
Got everything soldered together and turned it on. Everything lit up but no reception (before I started I had reception on all bands) and still had the same hum as before. I thought I hooked something up wrong but everything was in the right place. What I did find was not one but two bad solder joints. It's been a long time since I had a solder joint fail but I have a theory. Following advice that I read somewhere online (not here) I cut the tabs off the bottom of the can complete with wires. I had read this was any easy way to avoid making a mistake if you have a lot of wires to deal with. I'm sure this works for some people but I won't be doing it again. I'm sure the solder joints failed due to me mixing old and new solder on assembly.
So the result of all this is that although it's working again I still have the same hum and worse than that the appearance of my job is so bad that I'm too embarrassed to take a picture of it. Next step is to remove my mess and start over. I've replaced caps in quite a few sets and never had an experience like this before. I really hope this is a one time event and I am concerned that I still have the hum. I think I'll remove the can on the re-repair and then decide whether to re-stuff or bite the bullet and buy a replacement. :oops:

best regards,
Sandy


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