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 Post subject: Telefunken Sonata 5083 Which caps to start with?
PostPosted: May Mon 16, 2022 8:31 pm 
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Location: Asheville, NC
Hi all,
I'm new to the forum and tube radios. I tinker on turntables and solid state a bit. I picked up a Telfunken Sonata 5083 that sounds really good. I'm not real sure it even plays in stereo, but it sounds really nice. It appears to have a woofer and a tweeter in the front .
From looking around here I know that I need to replace the paper caps. What about the red ones I circled in the picture? Are they what would be considered wax caps?
thanks, Tom


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 Post subject: Re: Telefunken Sonata 5083 Which caps to start with?
PostPosted: May Mon 16, 2022 8:38 pm 
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One is clearly marked in ohms. resistors.

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 Post subject: Re: Telefunken Sonata 5083 Which caps to start with?
PostPosted: May Mon 16, 2022 8:49 pm 
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Should I replace them as well right off the bat or do they generally hold up pretty well?


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 Post subject: Re: Telefunken Sonata 5083 Which caps to start with?
PostPosted: May Mon 16, 2022 9:10 pm 
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I just took a look at similar questions about resistors. Looks like opinions vary. Maybe I'll replace the big ones or easier to get to ones. Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Telefunken Sonata 5083 Which caps to start with?
PostPosted: May Mon 16, 2022 10:14 pm 
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What is your complete model number?


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 Post subject: Re: Telefunken Sonata 5083 Which caps to start with?
PostPosted: May Mon 16, 2022 10:17 pm 
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Location: Mountains of Mourne. Ireland.
SOP (standard operating procedure) is to replace all of the Electrolytic capacitors, especially the main filter capacitors in the power supply section as a first step. Then all the wax (wax coated) & paper capacitors.

You can quickly test/measure Resistors in-circuit (power off) for any that may be OOT (out of tolerance) - - if you see something funny, lift/unsolder one leg, and remeasure.

Depending on my mood!
...and where the resistors are deployed in the circuit, resistors that are within 10% or 20% of their tolerance are left alone.

If you just go replacing all or most of the components willy-nilly, there is every chance that the set will never work correctly again, if at all... :shock:

------------

You may enjoy these restoration videos from Paul Carlson - - (scroll down)...
viewtopic.php?p=3206030#p3206030
just don't buy anything that he is selling - - you do not need it!


Or watch Manuel Caldeira's videos.
A link to his YouTube channel can be found here.
viewtopic.php?p=3525841#p3525841

:) Greg.


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 Post subject: Re: Telefunken Sonata 5083 Which caps to start with?
PostPosted: May Mon 16, 2022 10:29 pm 
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Location: Mountains of Mourne. Ireland.
Replacing old capacitors.
Emilio Ciardiello.
https://www.radiomuseum.org/forum/repla ... itors.html

Replacing Capacitors in Old Radios and TVs
Philip Nelson.
https://antiqueradio.org/recap.htm


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 Post subject: Re: Telefunken Sonata 5083 Which caps to start with?
PostPosted: May Mon 16, 2022 11:18 pm 
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Location: Long Island NY
No you do not want to replace those resistors unless or until troubleshooting indicates that you have to. Those are very high quality ceramic bodied film resistors. They seldom give trouble unless overloaded or physically damaged.

The capacitors you want to go after are the ones with the paper coverings that say "ERO" or any others like them, and the main filter capacitor which is usually an aluminum can type. It likely has multiple sections or there may be more than one on the chassis.

It is strongly advisable to get your replacement parts lined up, then change the old capacitors one by one. Every second or third cap you replace, power the set up to see how it goes. If you make a mistake or one of the new capacitors doesn't work out, you'll know it's got to be one of the last two you changed since the radio worked. You can then easily go back a step or two and find the problem. On the same theme, try to remove the old capacitors with their leads mostly intact if possible. Once in a blue moon you'll run into a situation where the radio actually works worse with a new cap than it did with the original one. Should that happen it's nice to be able to put the old cap back in the radio to see if it clears the problem up. But if you obliterate the old capacitors when removing them there is no possibility of going back if you have to.

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 Post subject: Re: Telefunken Sonata 5083 Which caps to start with?
PostPosted: May Tue 17, 2022 12:07 am 
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Wow. I step away from the computer for a couple hours and all this great info shows up. You guys are amazing.

I have the 3rd one pictured in the post above. 5083 WK. When I got it a couple of the legs were broken off, but were included, so I wood glued them back on.

I'll have to send some more pics to be sure I know what the main power cap is. I see a big silver one. That may be it. Does it open up or do I change out the whole thing?

I hear you about changing one at a time so that if I mess up I'll catch it.

A couple more questions...

Under the white keys are a few more caps. Change them as well I assume?

The power and volume are in one knob. I noticed it never turns off. When you rotate the knob it "clicks" on and changes the volume as it turns, but when you rotate counterclockwise it does not "click" to turn off. Have to unplug to turn off. I took a look inside at the knob and it has lots of wires. Could I just add a power switch inline or something like that?

thanks, Tom


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 Post subject: Re: Telefunken Sonata 5083 Which caps to start with?
PostPosted: May Tue 17, 2022 12:13 am 
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This it? There is also a black one right underneath it that runs front to back.


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 Post subject: Re: Telefunken Sonata 5083 Which caps to start with?
PostPosted: May Tue 17, 2022 12:18 am 
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Joined: Jun Wed 13, 2007 4:08 pm
Posts: 105
Location: Albuquerque New Mexico
My concern is you are mistaking clearly marked resistors for caps. Tube radios are not something you can tinker around in to make them better. You need to ask yourself if you have the electronics experience to work on this radio. You can hurt yourself if something is not reconnected correctly. You can also kill the radio and not know why by replacing part randomly.
I would find a person who has more experience to team up with you and the two of you can work on this radio together.


Dwight


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 Post subject: Re: Telefunken Sonata 5083 Which caps to start with?
PostPosted: May Tue 17, 2022 12:32 am 
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Location: Asheville, NC
I hear you Dwight and appreciate it. I have read where these are dangerous if not done correctly. I am certainly a novice with tube radios. I would say that my plan is to change out the paper caps that need it, I'm handy with soldering iron, and beyond that whatever needs to be done I would seek additional help.


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 Post subject: Re: Telefunken Sonata 5083 Which caps to start with?
PostPosted: May Tue 17, 2022 12:33 am 
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Before you touch anything you photograph it and you assess it. That identifies parts & damage. Like, if you see a fried resistor: You do not power it, powering is never step one.

As part of assessment you identify the parts and by asking about unknowns you, failed to make a mistake there. Some parts have a low fail rate, some like abandoned & long term stored electrolytic caps, waxed paper, & oil filled types, are those with the highest attrition rate & should be the components dealt with first along with bad wire.

If you see a burnt resistor there is liable to be a cause and steps taken to identify cause & affect? By taking out parts "willy nilly" for no good reason, you can introduce mistakes

We all have different approaches: I like mine, as it works.

Marcc


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 Post subject: Re: Telefunken Sonata 5083 Which caps to start with?
PostPosted: May Tue 17, 2022 2:06 am 
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Joined: Jun Wed 13, 2007 4:08 pm
Posts: 105
Location: Albuquerque New Mexico
Do you have the schematic for the radio? Tracing the circuits with the schematic is a great way to learn about electronics and will help identify the many parts. Also do you have test equipment to work on the circuit?
Back when I started working on electronics, I made the mistake of installing an electrolytic cap backwards and it filled the room with aluminum pieces. Did that one time. Never again.

Be careful.

Dwight


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 Post subject: Re: Telefunken Sonata 5083 Which caps to start with?
PostPosted: May Tue 17, 2022 3:11 am 
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A service manual for Telefunken model Allegro 2082W can be found via this link...
should be the same chassis - - different speaker count.
viewtopic.php?p=3322058#p3322058

------------

or you can download the eight 5083W schematic pages from radiomuseum.org for free.
https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/telefunke ... _5083.html

A download link page will be emailed to you immediately.
You can only download three pages a day + up to a maximum of ten every 30 days.


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 Post subject: Re: Telefunken Sonata 5083 Which caps to start with?
PostPosted: May Tue 17, 2022 3:18 am 
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I do have the schematic. It was tucked in an envelope in the cabinet. I have been checking out all the links here as well. Great information.


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 Post subject: Re: Telefunken Sonata 5083 Which caps to start with?
PostPosted: May Tue 17, 2022 6:05 am 
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I would replace the big silver guy (electrolytic) and all those wax paper ones that say ERO on them.

Though sometimes I just feel lucky.

Set from that vintage probably has a selenium rectifier too, might want to read about those some.

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 Post subject: Re: Telefunken Sonata 5083 Which caps to start with?
PostPosted: May Wed 18, 2022 12:21 am 
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Joined: May Mon 16, 2022 8:20 pm
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Location: Asheville, NC
Thanks for all the suggestions and advice everyone.

I have the parts ordered and will check in with more questions as they arise; which I'm sure they will.

Tom


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 Post subject: Re: Telefunken Sonata 5083 Which caps to start with?
PostPosted: May Sun 22, 2022 1:07 am 
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Location: Asheville, NC
I wanted to give an update on my radio. So I have been swapping out caps today and doing it slowly. One at a time and then check that the radio is still working. So far so good. I have some more to do and still to do the big silver can.

Now a question...

I ordered what I thought was the right dial lamp to replace a blown incandescent bulb. It is an LED E10 #46. But when I screwed it in and turned it on, it is very faint. Even in total darkness can't tell its on. Doesn't light the dial at all. It is located in the middle near bottom of the dial. It actually is inset between a couple of the middle piano key mechanisms.

So my questions are; should I not use an LED on this radio? Does a faint new bulb tell me something about another part? I read somewhere that LED will interfere with AM FM reception.?

Thanks, Tom


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 Post subject: Re: Telefunken Sonata 5083 Which caps to start with?
PostPosted: May Sun 22, 2022 2:40 am 
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Location: Albuquerque New Mexico
Normally LED bulbs are DC volts. What is powering the original bulbs? AC? How many volts is powering the bulbs? My old radios uses 7 volts AC.


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