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 Post subject: PAPER CAPACITOR VALUES
PostPosted: Nov Thu 14, 2019 3:21 pm 
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Hello everyone , i have a question on capacitors and there values , i am about to start working on bendix 1531 and am getting started with finding all the capacitors i need . a few capacitors that i need there values are .05 and .06 .01 . my question is that i have found some but they are 0.05 and 0.06 and 0.01 , would those work or are they completely different thanks again


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 Post subject: Re: PAPER CAPACITOR VALUES
PostPosted: Nov Thu 14, 2019 3:33 pm 
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Location: Livermore, CA
Hi

Exactly the same as original. A zero before the decimal with no other numbers is same as if it wasn't there.

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 Post subject: Re: PAPER CAPACITOR VALUES
PostPosted: Nov Thu 14, 2019 3:45 pm 
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???
You say you need 0.05, 0.06, and 0.01-----and then you say that's what you have.

To replace most paper capacitors, the values are not at all critical---and you can use the closest value in the typical series:
1, 1.2, 1.5, 1.8, 2.2, 2.7, 3.3, 3.9, 4.7, 5.6, 6.8, 8.2, and 10
(Each multiplied by a power of ten)

Example: To replace a 0.05, use a 0.047.
To replace a 0.06, use either 0.056 or 0.068

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-Mark
"Measure voltage, but THINK current." --anon.


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 Post subject: Re: PAPER CAPACITOR VALUES
PostPosted: Nov Thu 14, 2019 3:56 pm 
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Location: Lexington, KY USA
It would be OK to post a list of what you need, and the proposed replacements you have found so far.

You might mention whether your aim is to just get the radio working well again, or you hope to preserve the original appearance under the chassis.

You will get suggestions about what you should use and where to find these parts.

Ted


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 Post subject: Re: PAPER CAPACITOR VALUES
PostPosted: Nov Thu 14, 2019 4:19 pm 
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Norm Leal wrote:
Hi

Exactly the same as original. A zero before the decimal with no other numbers is same as if it wasn't there.


Bingo!!---I missed that

Off-topic:
That extra 0 in front of the decimal does have a purpose: It helps keep the decimal point from getting lost. Especially when something is hand-written, the little dot can be lost and ".1" might look like just "1"

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-Mark
"Measure voltage, but THINK current." --anon.


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 Post subject: Re: PAPER CAPACITOR VALUES
PostPosted: Nov Thu 14, 2019 4:38 pm 
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whoops that is my bad sorry about that . i meant to say i have a .05 and found a 0.05 . I thought the extra zero dint mean alot ,but wanted to make sure . And from what i have been reading switching from mfd to uf is also fine , is that true as well ?


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 Post subject: Re: PAPER CAPACITOR VALUES
PostPosted: Nov Thu 14, 2019 4:49 pm 
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And my goal is to get the radio operational again i am not to concerned with what the appearance underneath looks like .


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 Post subject: Re: PAPER CAPACITOR VALUES
PostPosted: Nov Thu 14, 2019 5:13 pm 
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HAMmer wrote:
switching from mfd to uf is also fine , is that true as well ?

Yes!!

the "u" really supposed to be the greek letter "mu" which is the standard prefix for 10 ^-6 (AKA micro)

For more prefixes than you will ever need:
https://www.nist.gov/pml/weights-and-me ... i-prefixes

mfd is an obsolete from---as is mmfd (meaning micro-micro Farad.

Currently, the most common units are uF, nF, and pF (micro, nano, and pico)

AND---for the ultimate nitpick, it's uF for micro-Farad. Ditto for Henries

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-Mark
"Measure voltage, but THINK current." --anon.


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 Post subject: Re: PAPER CAPACITOR VALUES
PostPosted: Nov Thu 14, 2019 6:13 pm 
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A "micro-microfarad" (μμF, and confusingly often mmf or MMF), an obsolete unit sometimes found in older texts, is the equivalent of a picofarad. In texts prior to 1960, and on capacitor packages even much more recently, mf or MFD rather than the modern µF frequently represented microfarads. Similarly, mmf or MMFD represented picofarads.

μF (microfarad)

pF (picofarad)

Random examples...
.002μF (microfarad) equals 2000pF (picofarad)
.00025μF equals 250pF

to convert from μF to pF
Here's a handy capacitor conversion chart.
http://justradios.com/uFnFpF.html

------------

fyi... for other schematics that you may encounter...

Resistors...
Capital M (the old fashioned notation) on the schematic is the Roman numeral for 1000
Example: 100M equals 100K equals 100,000Ω

Also seen on some older schematics: stylized→ ω represents the lowercase Greek letter omega.

------------

Greg.


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 Post subject: Re: PAPER CAPACITOR VALUES
PostPosted: Nov Thu 14, 2019 6:29 pm 
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by now, OP is REALLY glad he asked......;)

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-Mark
"Measure voltage, but THINK current." --anon.


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 Post subject: Re: PAPER CAPACITOR VALUES
PostPosted: Nov Thu 14, 2019 7:08 pm 
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Howard Sams published a Photofact (pretty pictures) service manual for Bendix model 1531 (August 1948)

Photofact Set-43 Folder-6

There is one available on ebay should you require it.
$8.50 shipped. (four-pages, eight sides).
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R ... 3&_sacat=0

Image
Large image: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/tx8AAOSw ... -l1600.jpg

Greg.


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 Post subject: Re: PAPER CAPACITOR VALUES
PostPosted: Nov Thu 14, 2019 10:15 pm 
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HAMmer wrote:
whoops that is my bad sorry about that . i meant to say i have a .05 and found a 0.05 . I thought the extra zero dint mean alot ,but wanted to make sure . And from what i have been reading switching from mfd to uf is also fine , is that true as well ?

It's not lower case letter "u" but Greek letter lower case "Mu" which is written as "μ." They all mean "micro" in electronics notation. micro = m = μ.

No need to go crazy to hunt down exactly 0.5 or 0.2, etc. Those were standard manufactured values at the time. You can use current common values and the radio won't know the difference. That means you might save some time and money. For example:

Use 0.047 for 0.050; 0.22 instead of 0.20; 0.0033 as replacement for 0.0030; etc.


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 Post subject: Re: PAPER CAPACITOR VALUES
PostPosted: Nov Thu 14, 2019 11:44 pm 
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What I consider bad practice, was a tendency to leave off the leading zero. eg use .1 rather than 0.1 if you get a bad reproduction of a schematic or it has deteriorated, it is much easier, in many cases, to determine the value of the cap.

+1: Use the nearest modern preferred range cap to the old. Consider older tolerances were often as high as +/- 20%. Modern tolerances with better materials & techniques can be much tighter. So if you consider 0.0047 with 0.005,the percentage error is not worth worrying about. I have never had a problem with this in several hundred sets.

As with AJJ comment beware and be familiar with nomenclature. Don't forget to take good photo's before pulling anything to bits.

Marc


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 Post subject: Re: PAPER CAPACITOR VALUES
PostPosted: Nov Fri 15, 2019 12:45 am 
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pixellany wrote:
mfd is an obsolete from---as is mmfd (meaning micro-micro Farad.

What do you mean obsolete :shock: That is what I learned and what I still use.

DM


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 Post subject: Re: PAPER CAPACITOR VALUES
PostPosted: Nov Fri 15, 2019 1:02 am 
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thankyou i may just have to snag that it is cheap enough ! , i did find the manual online and printed it off ! . The one i am worried about is the electrolytic that is on the top side of the chassis . It is a 20 20 40 mfd according to the manual , what would your suggestions be on that one . ?


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 Post subject: Re: PAPER CAPACITOR VALUES
PostPosted: Nov Fri 15, 2019 1:05 am 
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It was common practice for older capacitors (and schematics) to be marked as MFD or mFd

Yes, it (MFD) can occasionally still be seen today.
but... most are now marked μF

Why confuse the new guy by turning this in to a discussion about semantics!
Have you run out of solder. lol
Image
Greg


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 Post subject: Re: PAPER CAPACITOR VALUES
PostPosted: Nov Fri 15, 2019 1:40 am 
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C32 is a multi-section electrolytic capacitor. (Part number CE3A03)

You can replace it with three individual capacitors.
a 20μF 450V
b 40μF 450V
c 20μF 450V
Image
Bendix (part number) CE3A03 is rated at 450V
Different radio - - - part numbers reference only http://americanradiohistory.com/hd2/IDX ... e-0098.pdf

Bendix 1531 Rider's schematic: http://www.nostalgiaair.org/Resources/331/M0002331.htm

Greg.


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 Post subject: Re: PAPER CAPACITOR VALUES
PostPosted: Nov Fri 15, 2019 2:08 am 
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egg wrote:
Why confuse the new guy by turning this in to a discussion about semantics!
Have you run out of solder. lol[/img]Greg

Sorry, I didn't know levity was not allowed on this forum. My solder supply is just fine, thank you for inquiring.

DM


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 Post subject: Re: PAPER CAPACITOR VALUES
PostPosted: Nov Fri 15, 2019 2:10 am 
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Removing and restuffing/rebuilding capacitor cans...
viewtopic.php?p=2966158#p2966158

Follow the links (to photos) above, and scroll up and down the Curtis Mathes thread for different methods of installation.

Greg.
oh... the Sams Photofact, as the name implies, contains top and bottom view photos of your chassis and individual components will be identified.


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 Post subject: Re: PAPER CAPACITOR VALUES
PostPosted: Nov Fri 15, 2019 2:23 am 
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"Never apologize and never explain--it's a sign of weakness".
The Duke. She Wore a Yellow Ribbon.

Greg.


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