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 Post subject: Restore Documentation
PostPosted: Apr Sun 05, 2020 11:41 pm 
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Joined: Jan Mon 27, 2020 3:46 pm
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Location: Wilderville, Oregon 97543
When I have restored car radios, at the end, I copy all my documentation (Schematics, reproduced labels, parts lists...) on a USB stick and mount it in the radio so that if the radio is repaired by someone else they will have all the information about the restoration. I use those credit card sized USB sticks and remove the card part, this make s a small stick to mount.

Does anybody do this also?

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 Post subject: Re: Restore Documentation
PostPosted: Apr Mon 06, 2020 12:22 am 
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I wonder if the future restorer will be able to read the USB stick? That's one advantage of paper. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Restore Documentation
PostPosted: Apr Mon 06, 2020 12:59 am 
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Quote: “ I use those credit card sized USB sticks ”

A novel idea for sure...hopefully the flash drive medium will stick around for many decades. Was not so with floppy disks.

What size flash drive do you find adequate to hold the documentation ?

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 Post subject: Re: Restore Documentation
PostPosted: Apr Mon 06, 2020 2:02 am 
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While this is a neat idea, flash drives are only considered good for roughly 10 years of storage. Just like paper capacitors, some may last longer than expected. Flash drives are essentially millions of capacitors. Eventually they discharge even if not used. They are not an archive storage medium.

But I wouldn't take a bet on being able to get much, if any, data off of one after sitting 20 years. Computer SSD's can start to deteriorate in just 4 months if not used. They depend on firmware that moves data from failing areas to another area to stay reliable.


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 Post subject: Re: Restore Documentation
PostPosted: Apr Mon 06, 2020 2:28 am 
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Why?

50 years from now there won't be anyone fixin' radios, let alone car radios.


No need for cars either... Teleportation is the future man... 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Restore Documentation
PostPosted: Apr Tue 07, 2020 3:55 pm 
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Joined: Jan Mon 27, 2020 3:46 pm
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Location: Wilderville, Oregon 97543
Dennis Wess wrote:
Quote: “ I use those credit card sized USB sticks ”

A novel idea for sure...hopefully the flash drive medium will stick around for many decades. Was not so with floppy disks.

What size flash drive do you find adequate to hold the documentation ?


2GB has worked but I take a lot of pictures. The last radio I did was 689 MB: https://motorola405.blogspot.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Restore Documentation
PostPosted: Apr Tue 07, 2020 3:57 pm 
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Location: Wilderville, Oregon 97543
nash wrote:
While this is a neat idea, flash drives are only considered good for roughly 10 years of storage. Just like paper capacitors, some may last longer than expected. Flash drives are essentially millions of capacitors. Eventually they discharge even if not used. They are not an archive storage medium.

But I wouldn't take a bet on being able to get much, if any, data off of one after sitting 20 years. Computer SSD's can start to deteriorate in just 4 months if not used. They depend on firmware that moves data from failing areas to another area to stay reliable.


Got a better solution?


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 Post subject: Re: Restore Documentation
PostPosted: Apr Tue 07, 2020 4:31 pm 
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jsweinrich wrote:
Got a better solution?

Digital media generally have poor long-term archive capability, and flash is among the worst. Even for magnetic storage, only tape is considered archival. Most other storage media need to be rewritten periodically, sometimes even on fresh media. Tape isn't a good solution for small-time operators either, since modern drives and cartridges are expensive. And then there's the standards compatibility issue -- for the most part, devices in 20 years will not accept old media, so you'll be working with very old devices hoping they can transfer to new devices.

Anyway, although I'm sure it's disappointing to hear, the best storage medium for info on an antique radio is paper. Good for about 100 years. Requires no special hardware to write or read.

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 Post subject: Re: Restore Documentation
PostPosted: Apr Tue 07, 2020 4:42 pm 
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Tom Albrecht wrote:

Anyway, although I'm sure it's disappointing to hear, the best storage medium for info on an antique radio is paper. Good for about 100 years. Requires no special hardware to write or read.


Informative information on storage media Tom.... but I think the OP was suggesting a way to archive on a medium he can stash inside the radio cabinet for a future repair / restore guy. I agree paper is best for longevity but tabletop radios don't leave much room for interior storage. No problem with larger cabinets obviously.

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 Post subject: Re: Restore Documentation
PostPosted: Apr Tue 07, 2020 4:44 pm 
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Modern film stocks (as in microfiche) have an almost indefinite life—500 years or better—if properly stored. Retrieval can be figured out on inspection and does not rely on rapidly evolving technologies which may not be available in 20-30 years.

I suspect 100 years from now nobody will remember analog radios nor fossil fuel cars. Somebody is likely to post a message in the Antique Smartphone Forum about the neat old vintage collectible USB drive they found in an old pile of metal somewhere.

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 Post subject: Re: Restore Documentation
PostPosted: Apr Tue 07, 2020 4:57 pm 
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I have to agree that digital, or for that matter any other electronic based storage media, are the worst choices due to no one in the future having a device that will be capable of reading them. I'd bet that today most of us don't have the ability to read the information on a floppy disk that was in common use just 20 years ago. No recent computers have been made with that type of disk drive.

I like printed material on archival quality paper as the #1 choice if it absolutely needs to survive, because no special equipment is needed to access the information on it, and the film based concept is also very good because as already observed, it would be simple for anyone coming upon it in the future to figure out.

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 Post subject: Re: Restore Documentation
PostPosted: Apr Tue 07, 2020 8:19 pm 
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Location: Cottage Grove, Minnesota
Surprisingly there is a lot of paper literature that has survived far beyond its original expected useful life. Consider that many of the book we use were produced annually and the previous versions were expected to tossed (think Tube Manuals). All of this literature was printed on "acid" paper, manufacturing of "acid free" paper didn't take place until late in the last century. Just about all paper manufactured today is "acid free" and may therefore have a longer life than "acid" paper.

There are many steps that can be taken to preserve existing literature, much of the preservation information is available online. Storage is the most important step, followed by proper maintenance, and using archival methods and products. Low moisture, clean air and absence of direct sunlight exposure are essential storage considerations. Damage to paper fibers by acid causes the paper to turn brown and become brittle, this usually starts along the exposed edges of a book. Your Riders Perpetual Trouble Shooters Manuals have many foldout schematics and these tend to become damaged on the fold. The fold can be reinforced by archival tape, never use cellophane tape. Rips and tears can also be repaired with archival tape. There are several products that reinforce the damaged hole of pages ripped out from ring binders. Removing wrinkles and folds in paper will also increase its life.

A small investment in the proper tools and products can save original paper literature and make it last for many more years. If you maintain your manuals as you use them, you most likely wont have to make major repairs. Having said that, sometimes you need to make a major repair to a book. Books fail along the binding when the glue hardens and cracks, releasing individual pages or even complete signatures. Clamping and re-gluing the binding is not a difficult task, removing the old glue is typically the worst parts. Use book binding tape to repair the cover and over the repaired binding.

Do what you can to preserve the paper literature that you already have and use, so it can be passed on to the next generations.

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