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 Post subject: Re: Airline 62-301 cabinet restoration
PostPosted: Oct Tue 23, 2018 12:43 am 
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This 'sho B a lotta work! Electronics is more my forte.


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 Post subject: Re: Airline 62-301 cabinet restoration
PostPosted: Nov Sun 04, 2018 1:57 am 
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ARRRGGHHH! OK, so I stained the corner trim with a darker color, and the sides and front with a somewhat lighter one. The sides came out ticketyboo (as the other English speaking world would say), but the front and top; I used exactly the same stain, the Minwax in the larger can, and it came out dark, as you can see. Now of course I can sand it down and do it over, but I don't want the same results. Why doesn't it stain the same color as the sides, or what do I have to do?

Guidance, please.


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 Post subject: Re: Airline 62-301 cabinet restoration
PostPosted: Nov Sun 04, 2018 11:08 am 
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I'm slightly confused here but I think you are saying after staining, the trim of the front, from the bottom to the top, has come out a better colour for you than the corner and across the top. Or maybe its just not the same.

I did say that in my experience trim is better done with obliterating toner and that's Mohawk Tone Toner Extra Dark Walnut although someone offered a lighter alternative. Toner is lacquer that is tinted with a colour, on this type its tinted so strongly that it covers everything in a few coats.

The reason is that trim is often cut from beech or another wood with very long and tight grain that doesn't absorb stain well, or it absorbs it differently in different cut angles.

But no bother you can mask off all the sides and front and use the toner over the stain. With a shellac wash first if you like although I don't do that.

Its a beautiful cabinet, far better to look at then those 'box on a box' Zeniths :D (wash you mouth out with soap and water) so keep going. No rush, you will get there. I've done cabinets and then completely stripped them and done them again.

Gary


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 Post subject: Re: Airline 62-301 cabinet restoration
PostPosted: Nov Sun 04, 2018 7:13 pm 
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Thx for your thoughts, Gary. I guess I wasn't clear enough; I want the front and top to look like the sides, i.e., a lighter finish. I assumed that the type of wood was the same for both, but do you think that's not the case, and the reason why the front and top stained differently?

Here's what I used;
Image

The smaller can of wood finish is what I used on the corner trim, and although the color looks similar to the side, it's actually darker, giving a nice contrast.

Richard

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 Post subject: Re: Airline 62-301 cabinet restoration
PostPosted: Nov Sun 04, 2018 8:46 pm 
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The front and top are walnut. The sides are not.

Normally you'd pick a toner color -- Perfect Brown is a good one -- and use it on the front/top and the sides. A light spray on each surface would probably get them close to the same. You want a dye-based toner that won't obliterate the grain. Stain just isn't a good solution for this. You never know how well it will absorb and whatever shows on the can probably isn't going to be what it actually looks like.

The trim, as others have said, should also be toned (after masking), but instead, use a pigment-based toner to darken quickly and hide any grain.

I'd say you've compounded the issue by using a stain/poly mix. Those products are great for someone who has an oak shelf they want to finish, or any project where the object is made of all the same wood. For your radio, the best thing to do is stick with lacquer. Lacquer is really easy to remove if you goof something up.

Next steps? I guess you could strip the polyshades off and start over..

Peter


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 Post subject: Re: Airline 62-301 cabinet restoration
PostPosted: Nov Sun 04, 2018 9:13 pm 
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Thx Peter. Would you recommend I use something like this, after I sand the front and top back down to bareness;
https://woodrepairproducts.com/product/ ... HEQAvD_BwE

I really don't want to have to mess with the sides; I like the color and the smooth feel, so I'm wondering what toner color to select for just the top and front, since they don't have Pecan, which I used on the sides. Maybe the Tawny Beechnut? Do you think that might be a close match with the existing Pecan colored sides?

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 Post subject: Re: Airline 62-301 cabinet restoration
PostPosted: Nov Sun 04, 2018 9:23 pm 
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For the top and sides, you want the Ultra Classic toner -- it's dye based. The Tone Finish you've linked to is pigment based, and would cover the grain. The Tone Finish is appropriate for the trim.

Can't say on the color, sorry. Sanding on the front/top too much might go through the veneer. You might trying stripping it instead, or be very careful.

If you strip the whole thing, just get a couple of cans of Ultra Classic Perfect Brown. Laying a coat of that on both front/top and the sides will get them matched. use the darker Tone Finish (Dark Walnut or Van Dyke Brown) on the trim. Then clearcoat the whole thing with a semi-gloss lacquer.

Peter


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 Post subject: Re: Airline 62-301 cabinet restoration
PostPosted: Nov Mon 05, 2018 9:38 am 
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Would not have used the PolyShades. What works for me is a Mineral Spirits based stain. Look on the can and see if it says it can be thinned with that and works for clean up. Might have said I start with a thinned mix 50/50 maybe and apply after grain filling, with a lint free cloth. Can always go for a stronger mix later if needed.
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Sorry! but I don't agree with Peter on now using Mohawk Classic toner. The droplet size is too large, it has to be as it doesn't have the pressure of a Pro spray gun setup. For me it always comes out 'specky' (you can see the droplets) and so I have attempted to fill these in with another coat and so it ends up far too dark.

The exception to this is colours like Light Golden Oak which just faintly colour and add a glow. But I'm not sure these light tones will fix your problem.

These spray cans are intended for touch up work, by skilled people, and not for folks doing something the size of a radio. I've only ever had a go at using them with table sets and have some 'dusky maidens' on the shelves that need doing again. Wouldn't go near a console with them.

There is another way but I hesitate to suggest it as it takes experience and is called the "Artists Oil Paint Method": you can find it on the Forum. It has replaced Classic Toners for me.

Trying to get the top and front now to match the sides would be difficult even for the experienced whatever way you go.

For the trim the Tone Toners, that obliterate, work fine and any numpty can do a good job with those.

What to do now? Send it to Fred in Texas :D . I reckon I would strip and start over but your choice.

Gary


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 Post subject: Re: Airline 62-301 cabinet restoration
PostPosted: Nov Mon 05, 2018 11:42 am 
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Thought about it some more.

If you do decide to strip and start over have a go with the Classic Toners first. They are cheap and easy to get over there so not much to lose. They will strip off along with the rest and you will have gained a bit more experience. Try Peter's Perfect Brown (it never was for me :) ) and try Light Golden Oak (do that one first as you can probably put the other over it).

Big tip: unless you have somewhere uniformly warm and free of damp its getting too cold to spray lacquer. Hide it away until next year and do something else. A break from it will be good anyway.

Gary


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 Post subject: Re: Airline 62-301 cabinet restoration
PostPosted: Nov Mon 05, 2018 5:51 pm 
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Thx for your thoughts, Gary. I stripped the cabinet last night, using both chemical strippers and my power sander. It's a little darker than when I had originally stripped it, but I didn't want to chance going through the veneer.

I happen to have a can of Golden Oak gel that I've been using on the Oak door frames at my house, so I might experiment on a small area in the lower front, to see how it colors, and matches up with the sides. If not, I'll strip or sand that down, and get a spray can of the Ultra Classic Toner. I think the Brown Fruitwood looks to be about the closest color to match the sides.

No worries on temp or humidity here; this is the southwest desert. Temps have been in the low 80's, humidity around 25%. It's dry and warm in my garage. In fact, I've had to have to have a fan running, and with my shirt off when I've worked on it in the evenings.

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 Post subject: Re: Airline 62-301 cabinet restoration
PostPosted: Nov Mon 05, 2018 6:12 pm 
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Mohawk colour charts are useless !

Gary


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 Post subject: Re: Airline 62-301 cabinet restoration
PostPosted: Nov Mon 05, 2018 6:17 pm 
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Well then how would I determine what color to use?

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 Post subject: Re: Airline 62-301 cabinet restoration
PostPosted: Nov Mon 05, 2018 7:07 pm 
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Same as I did, buy some and try them. Over here they are silly money so its not too bad for you.

Gary


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 Post subject: Re: Airline 62-301 cabinet restoration
PostPosted: Nov Tue 06, 2018 9:04 am 
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I should have said that the Mohawk colour charts are accurate for Tone Toners as they obliterate and so are as good as paint charts.

In my experience this is not so for the Classics as you are trying to lay down an almost transparent tinted mist over a shade that is already there. What do Mohawk do? Spray on a white background maybe but whatever it will be different from the cabinet. Perhaps if you put enough on it slowly becomes the colour on the chart but that's not what you are trying to do …

Another tip: buy a proper paint mask, a dust one wont do. The stuff stinks and we have only one set of lungs. If you can smell it whilst spraying the mask is inadequate. It can be smelt, when you remove the mask outside, through a closed door.

Gary


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 Post subject: Re: Airline 62-301 cabinet restoration
PostPosted: Nov Tue 06, 2018 6:46 pm 
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Thx Gary. I'll soldier on with this, and post my progress (or regress).

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 Post subject: Re: Airline 62-301 cabinet restoration
PostPosted: Nov Sun 25, 2018 2:53 am 
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If I ever intimate that I'm considering refinishing another console, please please just have me committed!

Took seemingly forever, given that it was my first, had no clue what I was doing, and had to do things over several times. I'm no Fred Taylor, and I know it doesn't look that great, but at least it's done, and I can live with it.


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 Post subject: Re: Airline 62-301 cabinet restoration
PostPosted: Nov Sun 25, 2018 9:48 am 
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I've never done a console only some very large table radios. They took a long time and quite a bit of lacquer so I can imagine its tough doing a floor standing model. Closest I got to it was a Stew. Warner 950 which is a consolette.

See you didn't bother with any dark trim, or maybe it doesn't show in the pic, which would have made it jump out a little more but its a huge improvement on what it was.

Your happy so a good outcome

Gary


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 Post subject: Re: Airline 62-301 cabinet restoration
PostPosted: Nov Sun 25, 2018 8:19 pm 
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Thx Gary. I didn't care for the black trim in the factory color scheme, so my contrast was simply a brown color. It may not pop, but it's comfortable for me.

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 Post subject: Re: Airline 62-301 cabinet restoration
PostPosted: Nov Mon 26, 2018 2:32 am 
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You did well with matching the sides with the front, considering the differences in the wood. And it looks great overall, well done.

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 Post subject: Re: Airline 62-301 cabinet restoration
PostPosted: Nov Wed 28, 2018 8:23 am 
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It looks very nice. The only way you get better at this is to practice practice practice. Considering how light your other furniture is in that room, to get close to it I think you would have essentially needed to use a clear lacquer. You can get a good idea of how that would look by simply wiping mineral spirits over the bare wood. Most traditional nitro cellulose lacquers end up having a amber color to them after they dry. And if it turns out too light you can always over spray the entire cabinet with a very lightly tinted toner. The trick with toning lacquer is to start light and slowly build up to your preferred color.


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