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 Post subject: recommendations for a metal cabinet paint smooth hammertone
PostPosted: Oct Tue 30, 2018 11:42 pm 
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looking for what paint to use to get this kind of finish, basically its a hammertone, but relatively quite smooth.
Image
This was some kind of paint over a red primer.
i've experimented with Rustoleum hammertone, and really dosn't seem close.


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 Post subject: Re: recommendations for a metal cabinet paint smooth hammert
PostPosted: Oct Wed 31, 2018 1:03 am 
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I have had good results with the Rustoleum hammertone. In fact far better than I had expected. The gold closely resembles the Zenith finish... The paint is quite tough too.
Possible an application failure? Humidity, too cold/hot, surface contamination, incompatible prep?

I did do test strips on tin cut from olive oil can and thoroughly de-greased, no problems...

Chas

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 Post subject: Re: recommendations for a metal cabinet paint smooth hammert
PostPosted: Oct Wed 31, 2018 1:14 am 
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Your photo looks like a textured finish; is it? If it isn't completely smooth, it isn't hammertone. It might be a wrinkle finish. That would explain why hammertone paint doesn't look right.

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 Post subject: Re: recommendations for a metal cabinet paint smooth hammert
PostPosted: Oct Wed 31, 2018 1:50 am 
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Jim Mueller wrote:
Your photo looks like a textured finish; is it? If it isn't completely smooth, it isn't hammertone. It might be a wrinkle finish. That would explain why hammertone paint doesn't look right.


It is very smooth to the touch and gloss. that is not to say it doesn't have a slight texture to it, but only very slight. you can see the unevenness in the surface from the lights that are reflecting off the surface. it's defiantly not a wrinkle type finish, it is a gloss finish.


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 Post subject: Re: recommendations for a metal cabinet paint smooth hammert
PostPosted: Oct Wed 31, 2018 2:14 am 
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Chas wrote:
I have had good results with the Rustoleum hammertone. In fact far better than I had expected. The gold closely resembles the Zenith finish... The paint is quite tough too.
Possible an application failure? Humidity, too cold/hot, surface contamination, incompatible prep?

I did do test strips on tin cut from olive oil can and thoroughly de-greased, no problems...

Chas


I tried some tricks I picked up from a form where people paint guitar stomp boxes.. they use hammertone that was first kept in the fridge, then applied. then, using a clearcoat overtop.. though seems a bit crazy and paint layers get kinda thick. but it is a lot closer then hammertone straight out of the can at room temp....jsut seems there's more than likely something out there that is closed right out of the can.. also, i am concerned if this would last without chipping or cracking over time considering how it was applied and the different layers.

my tests:
hammertone room temp:
Image

hammertone can refrigerated, left no clearcoat, center with krylon clear overtop, right Krylon crystal glaze overtop.
Image


closeup on the hammertone applied cold with krylon glaze clearcoat
Image

closeup original:
Image


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 Post subject: Re: recommendations for a metal cabinet paint smooth hammert
PostPosted: Oct Wed 31, 2018 3:42 am 
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innkeeper wrote:
Chas wrote:
I have had good results with the Rustoleum hammertone. In fact far better than I had expected. The gold closely resembles the Zenith finish... The paint is quite tough too.
Possible an application failure? Humidity, too cold/hot, surface contamination, incompatible prep?
I did do test strips on tin cut from olive oil can and thoroughly de-greased, no problems...
Chas


I tried some tricks I picked up from a form where people paint guitar stomp boxes.. they use hammertone that was first kept in the fridge, then applied. then, using a clearcoat overtop.. though seems a bit crazy and paint layers get kinda thick. but it is a lot closer then hammertone straight out of the can at room temp....just seems there's more than likely something out there that is closed right out of the can.. also, i am concerned if this would last without chipping or cracking over time considering how it was applied and the different layers....
Putting an aerosol can in the fridge causes the propellant to loose pressure. Result is a sputtering at the nozzle, incomplete atomization and propellant on the surface of the paint further chilling the surface.

But you reminded me, I had a bucket of hot water placed the can in. I noticed as I was spraying that the can was chilling, that meant the pressure was dropping. I saw that as a coarsness to the hammertone, it was not flattening properly. So I had two cans in circulation, one spraying and one warming. It was tough because the can had to be wiped clean of the water :roll: Sheet metal can also chill from the solvents evaporating creating a similar problem coarse, hill & dale finish. So I experiment painting on a warmer day and only a single surface at a time two coats. I would not combine two different manufactures products that are light solvent based.

Oh, tip from the woodworking restorers, silicone's, any, all where ever, if silicone's get into the work area or environment it can cause a "fish-eye" effect...

When I was employed silicone's got into the manufacturing process and ruined the paint on 100's of thousands of finished product. It took a week shut down, the entire plant was wiped down. Culprit was a release spray that the manufacturer change the composition for "improved" action. Incoming raw material inspection missed it...

You may have to resort to a commercial finish, using a HvLp auto finish gun.

There are finish experts available on the phone at Pond Cove Paint the may be able to help...

http://www.pondcovepaint.com/

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 Post subject: Re: recommendations for a metal cabinet paint smooth hammert
PostPosted: Oct Wed 31, 2018 10:05 am 
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You don't say if the metal is striped to bare but do say you used a red primer so I expect that it is. What condition was the metal surface? rust free and possibly shinny after machine sanding. I would be concerned about adhesion particularly if the finish coat is thick which you say it is.

The best surface to paint is sand / bead blasted if you can find somewhere to do that for you. Failing that I'm impressed with Acid Etch Primers.


Gary


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 Post subject: Re: recommendations for a metal cabinet paint smooth hammert
PostPosted: Oct Wed 31, 2018 2:56 pm 
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I like grey primer base, warm area like 75f +, and ONE even coat of hammertone.
It doesn't do well with touch ups or half cured 2nd coats.

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 Post subject: Re: recommendations for a metal cabinet paint smooth hammert
PostPosted: Oct Wed 31, 2018 3:02 pm 
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I've never found that chilling an aerosol can worked positive in ANY way. Nor do I want it too hot.
The can will list the ideal spraying temperature on the directions.
Each paint will have its own requirements for surface prep, temperatures and curing.
Read the directions written by the Pro's who made it for the best results.

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 Post subject: Re: recommendations for a metal cabinet paint smooth hammert
PostPosted: Nov Thu 01, 2018 11:46 pm 
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Radio Fixer wrote:
You don't say if the metal is striped to bare but do say you used a red primer so I expect that it is. What condition was the metal surface? rust free and possibly shinny after machine sanding. I would be concerned about adhesion particularly if the finish coat is thick which you say it is.

The best surface to paint is sand / bead blasted if you can find somewhere to do that for you. Failing that I'm impressed with Acid Etch Primers.


Gary


sorry for the confusion, I've not stripped the cabinet yet. i am using the backside of the cabinet to match paint color and pattern, this the only good surface on the cabinet. The reason i know its red primer is i can see the primer where the paint has chipped / scraped off.

metal is in good shape, no rust or scratches into the metal as best i can tell, 1 very small ding that needs hammering out. I was actually going to just try some paint stripper to remove the paint, but haven't attempted that yet.

What I had planned to do is strip the current paint then prime it and paint it.
if I go with the Rustoleum hammertone, i was going to prime with duplicolor Self etching primer only because that seems to be a popular method with the stompbox folks. Since they use it, I know the two won't have bad reactions with the hammertone paint and the results stand up to some abuse. I'm open to other primers known to work well though, certainly not set on anything.


Last edited by innkeeper on Nov Thu 01, 2018 11:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: recommendations for a metal cabinet paint smooth hammert
PostPosted: Nov Thu 01, 2018 11:49 pm 
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glue_ru wrote:
I've never found that chilling an aerosol can worked positive in ANY way. Nor do I want it too hot.
The can will list the ideal spraying temperature on the directions.
Each paint will have its own requirements for surface prep, temperatures and curing.
Read the directions written by the Pro's who made it for the best results.


I can't say I had even ever heard of doing such things till I read what people were doing to get certain effects. and as you can see it had a pronounced effect on how it was applied, and its pretty darn close pattern wise. just needs a clearcoat to make it more flat and bring out a good smooth gloss.

id much rather find a paint that was that way without clearcoat and applied at its normal application temp.


Last edited by innkeeper on Nov Fri 02, 2018 12:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: recommendations for a metal cabinet paint smooth hammert
PostPosted: Nov Thu 01, 2018 11:51 pm 
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Chas wrote:
You may have to resort to a commercial finish, using a HvLp auto finish gun.

There are finish experts available on the phone at Pond Cove Paint the may be able to help...

http://www.pondcovepaint.com/


i'll give that a look. it is not out of the question to go that way.


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 Post subject: Re: recommendations for a metal cabinet paint smooth hammert
PostPosted: Nov Fri 02, 2018 12:48 am 
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Chas wrote:
Oh, tip from the woodworking restorers, silicone's, any, all where ever, if silicone's get into the work area or environment it can cause a "fish-eye" effect...

When I was employed silicone's got into the manufacturing process and ruined the paint on 100's of thousands of finished product. It took a week shut down, the entire plant was wiped down. Culprit was a release spray that the manufacturer change the composition for "improved" action. Incoming raw material inspection missed it...

You may have to resort to a commercial finish, using a HvLp auto finish gun.

There are finish experts available on the phone at Pond Cove Paint the may be able to help...

http://www.pondcovepaint.com/


I once inquired at a local automotive paint shop if they'd prep and spray hammer tone on a metal cabinet for me. Their response was that they couldn't have that stuff anywhere near their shop because it had silicone in the paint, which apparently is what causes the hammered effect. From that info I concluded that the amount of silicone and how it's suspended in the paint has some relationship to how pronounced the hammering effect is. My experience with the Rust-Oleum product is that it's quite pronounced.


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 Post subject: Re: recommendations for a metal cabinet paint smooth hammert
PostPosted: Nov Fri 02, 2018 4:23 am 
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I am guessing this case is circa 1964? maybe earlier. I've seen this kind of look on other cabinets. wonder what paint they used. So far my search for a paint like it has come up blank. though, admittedly i am far from a paint expert :)


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