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 Post subject: Re: Arvin Rhythm maid redo
PostPosted: Jan Wed 16, 2019 7:15 am 
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Joined: Jan Tue 31, 2012 1:55 am
Posts: 9594
Location: Mountains of Mourne. Ireland.
Dick wrote: I tried seaming on the cabinet and always get a small gap.


Never ever use a Stanley utility knife when cutting veneer.
It has a double-sided blade and will leave a beveled edge on your veneer.
Butting two pieces together will result in a V-groove ←BAD.

Use a sharp iron removed from a Block Plane or a Number 4 (smoothing) Bench Plane.

Image

Using a steel straight edge as your cutting guide, cut the veneer with one stroke - flat side of iron against the straight edge. Beveled edge obviously towards your waste. Blade held at a shallow angle + try not to wobble + keep the iron perfectly vertical as you make your cut.

If it doesn't cut with one stroke, your iron is not sharp enough.

Butt your two pieces together and force the joint to close by using short pieces of (3M blue 3/4") masking tape applied at 90° to join. Stretching the tape as you apply (lower) it will pull your pieces tightly together.

Do not be tempted to remove any ragged edges at this stage.

If you are cold or hot or vacuum pressing, it is best to apply veneer tape, and let it dry, then you can remove the masking tape.

Veneer tape (perforated or regular) is an ultra thin paper tape with a gum arabic adhesive, just like a traditional postage stamp.
You can wet it by drawing it across a small dish with a wet sponge in it as your reservoir.
Ceramic Rabbit water bowls work well. Lol

google: veneer tape.

Image

The ultra thin paper tape can be easily sanded away at the end, along with any tails.

Contact adhesive should never be used when veneering!
A good quality white woodworking PVA glue is OK

Stay away from dollar-store sandpaper.
Use good quality silicon carbide.

You need to be able to sharpen your iron and ideally strop it on a piece of raw leather ~3/16" (the furry side + pull strokes only) until it is ultra sharp. An old (wide) pants leather belt can be used.

Stropping an iron may leave a wire on the tip - go back to your stone to remove.

Be aware, an iron (blade) that has been stropped is a dangerous piece of kit - respect it well.

DMT 6" whetstones ain't cheap. Buy the red one if you want one.

Image

Use water and create a working slurry.

If you use a traditional oil stone, make sure that you remove all traces of oil with alcohol or cellulose thinners.

If you are broke, you can spray glue some 220 and 400 grit silicon carbide glass-paper to a piece of marble or plate-glass ←(thick), and use it as your makeshift sharpening stone.

I prefer to use an iron from a Low angle Block Plane.

Useless information... a block plane iron is the only plane iron that does not have a secondary bevel applied to the cutting edge... :)

Greg.

oh... not that it matters in this instance - a new iron needs to be backed-off (creating an ultra true flatness on the back of the iron near the cutting edge) if you smoke 20 a day, you may have to take a break or two as this can take quite a bit of elbow grease!

Fred, the radio looks great, as does the new shop... 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Arvin Rhythm maid redo
PostPosted: Jan Sat 19, 2019 4:23 pm 
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Joined: Oct Thu 23, 2014 5:15 pm
Posts: 199
Location: 06475
Hi Fred,

Your work looks fantastic! I am wondering how you apply that sheet of veneer that covers the top center of the cabinet and wraps around the front where the circular cut outs are. I have an old Crosley TV that need new veneer but have no idea how to go about doing this. Here is a link to a thread that shows good pictures of an excellent example of the set: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=311836.

Thanks in advance!


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 Post subject: Re: Arvin Rhythm maid redo
PostPosted: Jan Sat 19, 2019 5:31 pm 
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Joined: May Fri 10, 2013 4:09 am
Posts: 1765
Location: Dallas Tx
I'm not an expert at veneering, I also am learning as I go and watch videos on veneering. I can post here and show what I know but by no means is it the best or only way to do things.


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 Post subject: Re: Arvin Rhythm maid redo
PostPosted: Jan Sun 20, 2019 1:12 am 
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Joined: Jan Tue 03, 2012 9:30 pm
Posts: 46
Location: Marion , IN
Wow..... what a nice job


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 Post subject: Re: Arvin Rhythm maid redo
PostPosted: Jan Sun 20, 2019 3:26 pm 
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Joined: May Fri 10, 2013 4:09 am
Posts: 1765
Location: Dallas Tx
As I mentioned early in thread I messed up the veneer that I sectioned in and now the nightmare begins with me stripping the entire top and front section and starting all over. I have it stripped down and making a templet. Maybe today I can get the new veneer on. This should be fun


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File comment: Templet being made out of layers of a good masking tape.
new shop radios 1012.jpg
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 Post subject: Re: Arvin Rhythm maid redo
PostPosted: Jan Fri 25, 2019 3:00 am 
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Joined: May Fri 10, 2013 4:09 am
Posts: 1765
Location: Dallas Tx
Ok I am going to replace the whole front and top, I got the veneer stripped off and now I glued down a substrate wood and its trimmed to size. Next I will get some new veneer in book matched walnut and the edges will be done in a walnut also, this will not be done like the factory. Me and Joe decided on doing some thing that may look better than the plain veneer that was used from factory. Since this cabinet has been repaired and not original anymore , gives us the chance to possibly make it look nicer, we will see. If not will go back with factory looking veneer.


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 Post subject: Re: Arvin Rhythm maid redo
PostPosted: Jan Sun 27, 2019 3:01 am 
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Joined: May Fri 10, 2013 4:09 am
Posts: 1765
Location: Dallas Tx
Arvin is now ready to be shipped, the veneer job was very successful this time around. I really don't like to patch in veneer especially when the substrate is unstable from age. To do this job right I should have done a total remove replace (RandR) veneer the first time I did go with book matched walnut and a different cut walnut for the outer bands. This radio looks much much nicer than what the factory did. I and Joe the Zenithman talked about how to do the veneer and Joe left it up to me to come up with a different wood veneer other than the plain factory stuff that was used on there. No longer a factory lookin restore but a custom job on this rare Arvin. Hope you all like this one.


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File comment: New wood sub straight with tite bond glue applied and drying
new radio shop 011.jpg
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File comment: Center veneer cutout with tite bond glue setting up
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File comment: veneer section cutout of sheet of walnut
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File comment: Center of cabinet has the walnut veneer down, next is the outer bands
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File comment: Outer bands pre cut a hair bigger so trimming the outer edges will be necessary
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File comment: Outer bands now glued in place
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File comment: No stain just raw walnut, wet to show grain pattern
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new radio shop 041.jpg
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 Post subject: Re: Arvin Rhythm maid redo
PostPosted: Jan Sun 27, 2019 3:20 am 
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Joined: May Fri 10, 2013 4:09 am
Posts: 1765
Location: Dallas Tx
More pictures


Attachments:
File comment: Stain, toner and all the color has been done . 3 coats of sealer is shown now on the cabinet
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 Post subject: Re: Arvin Rhythm maid redo
PostPosted: Jan Sun 27, 2019 5:08 am 
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Joined: Jan Tue 31, 2012 1:55 am
Posts: 9594
Location: Mountains of Mourne. Ireland.
Fred, that looks fantastic...
I wonder do the folks around here realize the amount of work that you have put in to this.

Hat's off to you sir...

:) Greg.


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 Post subject: Re: Arvin Rhythm maid redo
PostPosted: Jan Sun 27, 2019 6:18 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 32745
Location: SoCal, 91387
Incredible work.

So what would you charge for a job like that? Just curious, if you don't mind spilling.

_________________
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\He Who Dies With The Most Radios Wins//////////////////


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 Post subject: Re: Arvin Rhythm maid redo
PostPosted: Jan Sun 27, 2019 2:17 pm 
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Joined: May Sat 26, 2018 1:55 am
Posts: 276
Location: Horse Shoe NC 28742
Spectacular Fred!!! Kudos to you!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Arvin Rhythm maid redo
PostPosted: Feb Sat 02, 2019 2:27 am 
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Joined: Feb Wed 15, 2017 11:49 pm
Posts: 249
Location: Kingsville, OH 44048
I was away for awhile and didn't see the fix Fred but that is EPIC!!! DROOL DROOL!!

Greg I also saw that you can level up your veneer by clamping the 2 pieces between 2 pieces of wood and using a perfectly cut 90* sanding block get the edges perfectly matched. I agree I didn't know I was leaving a beveled edge when cutting veneer with a razor knife. But also I didn't use the tape on the seam which definitely made the seam separate when heating. Now if I'm misunderstanding something PLEASE instruct further because I want to know. Thank You for always sharing your knowledge.

Dick


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 Post subject: Re: Arvin Rhythm maid redo
PostPosted: Mar Tue 12, 2019 7:37 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 811
Location: Crossville, TN USA
I drove out to the great state of Texas last Friday to retrieve several of my radios from Fred Taylor. I know have a couple of the Arvins back together and thought this would be a fitting end to this story. Fred does outstanding cabinet work and while I learn from him I have him refinish my special and rarest radios. A picture is worth a thousand words!

I have come to appreciate the Arvin "Rhythm series" of radios. I first picked up a Rhythm King several years ago in the Phoenix, AZ area, and then a small Rhythm Baby a little later. Last year I got a Rhythm Maid from a friend at Kutztown and it needed a lot of veneer work. I refinished it, but didn't like the end result and sent it to Fred, and he refinished it and we didn't like the end result, so Fred re-veneered the top and front and it turned out beautiful. I later discovered that there is an Arvin Model 517 that is called the Rhythm Junior that fits between the small Rhythm Baby and the Rhythm Maid. I found one on this forum, after I discovered that Arvin made two model 517s, one with the speaker on the front and one with the speaker on the top! Even though I really wanted the one with the speaker on the front to match the Baby and the Maid I bought it. I will continue the search for the Model 517 with the speaker on the front.

Someone here on the forum asked me how big the Rhythm Maid was so I took a picture of it along side a Zenith Walton set so you can gauge the size and then there is another picture showing the Rhythm Baby, and the Rhythm King. I am happy to have this all completed and some day I might find a Rhythm Junior with the speaker on the front and maybe even a Rhythm Queen to sit beside the King


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 Post subject: Re: Arvin Rhythm maid redo
PostPosted: Mar Wed 13, 2019 12:28 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 104
Location: Roswell, Georgia
Hi Fred: another great project!! Thanks for posting. You have answered a number of questions for me the past 12 months and I am currently involved in a major reveneering project trying to do it the “Fred Taylor way”. I think I have read everyone of your posts over the years but questions seem to keep popping up. Here’s the latest ones: you have shown us in past posts that you sand with 340 grit paper during the sealing stage, but do you do that sanding after each coat of sealer? Same question with regard to the lacquer stage: do you sand in between each lacquer coat, after every two coats, or just at the end of all of the coats? I am getting ready to apply my wiping stain and toners and will soon be spraying my sealer and lacquer so your advice would be appreciated. Thanks Mike McKenzie


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 Post subject: Re: Arvin Rhythm maid redo
PostPosted: Mar Wed 13, 2019 1:27 am 
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Joined: May Fri 10, 2013 4:09 am
Posts: 1765
Location: Dallas Tx
darlamike wrote:
Hi Fred: another great project!! Thanks for posting. You have answered a number of questions for me the past 12 months and I am currently involved in a major reveneering project trying to do it the “Fred Taylor way”. I think I have read everyone of your posts over the years but questions seem to keep popping up. Here’s the latest ones: you have shown us in past posts that you sand with 340 grit paper during the sealing stage, but do you do that sanding after each coat of sealer? Same question with regard to the lacquer stage: do you sand in between each lacquer coat, after every two coats, or just at the end of all of the coats? I am getting ready to apply my wiping stain and toners and will soon be spraying my sealer and lacquer so your advice would be appreciated. Thanks Mike McKenzie

No I don't sand in between sealer coats. I do sand the last coat of sealer smooth before spraying on the top coats of lacquer , don't burn thru the sealer you will mess up the stain or toners you put on. You can sand in between coats of clear lacquer if you wish but not the last coat.


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 Post subject: Re: Arvin Rhythm maid redo
PostPosted: Mar Wed 13, 2019 1:34 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 104
Location: Roswell, Georgia
Thanks as always. We’ll see how my first project turns out.


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 Post subject: Re: Arvin Rhythm maid redo
PostPosted: Mar Wed 13, 2019 11:51 pm 
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Joined: Feb Wed 15, 2017 11:49 pm
Posts: 249
Location: Kingsville, OH 44048
Fred I've noticed here and on earlier threads the slight overspray on the lower front panel and along the bottom and vertical parts of the sides. I'm sure this is on purpose because it looks fantastic.
Do you just slightly spray a quick shot along the molding after all toning or is there a different technique?
Not trying to steal your style, just love the look.

Thanks

Dick


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 Post subject: Re: Arvin Rhythm maid redo
PostPosted: Mar Thu 14, 2019 4:07 am 
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Joined: May Fri 10, 2013 4:09 am
Posts: 1765
Location: Dallas Tx
madsowry wrote:
Fred I've noticed here and on earlier threads the slight overspray on the lower front panel and along the bottom and vertical parts of the sides. I'm sure this is on purpose because it looks fantastic.
Do you just slightly spray a quick shot along the molding after all toning or is there a different technique?
Not trying to steal your style, just love the look.

Thanks

Dick
Yes you are correct.


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